regretting not transitioning earlier in life

[Steph34]

I envy those who can see positive in having lived so many years before transitioning.

I always wished I could have been a girl and never wanted to masculinize, but I did not know there was such a thing as transgender until I was in my 20s. I therefore assumed I was just crazy and wishing for the impossible. I did not want people to put me on more psych meds or try to toughen me up or poison me with steroids (all things my family would have done), so I kept my feelings a secret. My mother had never heard of transgender either, so she thought I was a "Peter Pan" and there was nothing to do about it. Once I finally did learn about transgender in my early 20s, I thought transitioning was not an option to me because 1)I was insecure about my identity due to hormonal imbalance, 2)I thought I would get thrown out on to the streets (and die) if I came out as trans, 3) I thought I would be given T, steroids, or conversion therapy if I came out and would therefore end up *more* masculine, 4)I thought the hormones would make me gain 100 pounds, and I did not want to be a 250-pound woman much more than I wanted to be a 150-pound man, 5)I did not have enough money to pay for a full transition, 6)I falsely believed I was already too old to transition successfully, and 7)I did not want to be labeled with gender identity disorder. So I struggled through in a male body, chronically depressed, watching 30 to 40 hairs slip away every day.

Meanwhile, I almost took my life several times in my teens and twenties due to the harmful physical and psychological effects of high testosterone and low estrogen (such as looking more manly, losing hair, and being emotionally empty except when I was angry). Unlike several other people here, I was too dysphoric to have sex, a partner, or even a friend since the onset of puberty. I couldn't even get a job as male. I did struggle through college, earn a degree, and climb small mountains, but I could have done those things as female too and it would have been much more fun. I therefore got nothing out of my delay except a masculine body.

By the time I started my transition in my late twenties (27-28), irreparable damage had been done. Even now after 3 years of estrogen, I have low hair count, a masculine skeletal structure, and no hope of changing either of those things. I cry almost daily about how I will never get to be the happy and beautiful woman I could have been if I had transitioned when I first learned about the phenomenon.

[Roll]

Unlike several other people here, I was too dysphoric to have sex, a partner, or even a friend since the onset of puberty. I couldn't even get a job as male.

Trust me, while I do see my one big positive (which very well could have been the case regardless of transitioning), I had a ton of negatives too. Everything you mention here was some of those negatives, though I did not even recognize them as dysphoria at the time. That is why it does pay to find the good, whatever it may be, otherwise that is just a path to despair. (And I think we've all probably had enough of that to last us a while.)

By the time I started my transition in my late twenties (27-28), irreparable damage had been done. Even now after 3 years of estrogen, I have low hair count, a masculine skeletal structure, and no hope of changing either of those things. I cry almost daily about how I will never get to be the happy and beautiful woman I could have been if I had transitioned when I first learned about the phenomenon.

I do constantly think about how if I had had the courage to admit my feelings at 10 years old, 15 years old... even at your age if I was 27-28. You beat most of us to the punch on this, and be happy about that if nothing else. I'm 35, and have a few weeks before I'll even be starting HRT (waiting on first appointment right now). I have an extra 7 years of hair loss, even if you assume that skeletal structure is set at that point. And many here top us by an extra 30 years. If there is no event you can find that gives the male years meaning, at least take solace from that you did begin transitioning at a time that is still comparatively early. Unfortunately, the reality is that for those us born before the 2000s, there just wasn't an option (or at least awareness of the option) to start when we would have liked in 99% of cases.

[Paige]

Hi Amoré,

Your father was a mean nasty jerk.  Just because you were lucky enough to have a child, doesn't in any way negate what was done to you.  People like your father inflict terrible psychological baggage.  It's not the least bit easy to forgive or forget that.

Looking past the regret,  I would look at it as you getting out from under your father's thumb.  This was an accomplishment you should be proud of.  It also makes your 12 year delay very understandable.

Take care, hope your future is bright 😊
Paige

[Amoré]

Hi Amoré,

Your father was a mean nasty jerk.  Just because you were lucky enough to have a child, doesn't in any way negate what was done to you.  People like your father inflict terrible psychological baggage.  It's not the least bit easy to forgive or forget that.

Looking past the regret,  I would look at it as you getting out from under your father's thumb.  This was an accomplishment you should be proud of.  It also makes your 12 year delay very understandable.

Take care, hope your future is bright 😊
Paige

Thanks Paige.

He is still a mean nasty jerk. He doesn't support me at all. He could not even say congratulations on getting engaged. He despise me in every way possible. It took me a good 12 years to get from under his thumb. My ex still goes to visit him and sleep over at my fathers place regularly. I am not welcome there. So it is a good thing he is 4 hours away from where I stay. I let him control me all those years but don't allow it anymore. He was under the impression and still is if he can get enough of my close family to turn on me I will change my mind. I have new family now. New friends that see me as a woman and nothing else.If I tell them I am transgender they tell me to stop saying that because I am a woman now. I don't look or act like anything else

[josie76]

That was awful what he did to you Amore. I'm sorry you had to live with such direct pressures from your father.

I do admit in so many ways that I wish I could have done it so much sooner in life. I denied myself so much but in trade I did find a woman I love deeply and two beautiful little children. I know however that if the information had been available back in my younger years I would have done it then and not regretted it. At least I never went through with my self castration ideas I had back around age 11. There's a good chance I would not be here today. Some things just work out in the end. Oh but that hind-sight really makes you think sometimes.

[Complete]

Some things just work out in the end.

I really think this is the bottom line. I really believe that we are all exactly where we are today as a direct result of our own decisions and actions. Sure we can all wish we had made different decisions which might have rendered different results, but then is that not about as productive as howling at the moon.
For some reason which I have yet to understand,  (and not for lack of trying), l have no regrets. Despite not having transitioned until I was 22, l do not regret not transitioning sooner. Oh sure, it would have been nice to start hrt at 15 like LisaK, or even earlier, but that did not happen. I masculinlized and grew to almost 6' tall. I grew a beard which had to be painfully removed. Despite all that, l survived, took control of my life and continue to enjoy it every single day. Even when it rains or fortune runs the other way, l give thanks for every minute l have on this green earth. My life is not without pain. It just is what it is and l strive to make the best of whatever presents itself to me every day.
What is the point in regret? Could I have made better decisions? I don't know. Life is what it is and l make the best of it.

[Lisa_K]

I should probably bow out of this thread because life has been so different for me but I did want to add a few things --  One would be to say I admire the strength and conviction of those that deal with this and transition after having already lived established lives as their natal gender and face so many hardships. It is inconceivable to me how incredibly difficult this must be because I don't believe I would have ever been able to do that?

I guess I also don't understand parents that can't or won't accept their children for who they are and celebrate the things that make them happy and whole or try to make them into something they are not. The scars and pain some of you carry saddens me that things had to be that way for you and it makes me angry that in this day and age when so much more is known about the trans condition that people can still be such idiots about it.

Maybe it's because I never expressed myself as a boy in the first place or maybe it's because my folks were from another planet or from the future but even in the late 1950's/early 60's, they just accepted who I was. Sure, I was presented with a lot of opportunities and at times urged "to be more like other boys" and there was a lot of teasing and some gentle coaching but forcing something on me contrary to my nature was something they just didn't do because I think they knew it was impossible anyway? The concerns they did have weren't about my behavior, personality or even how I looked to a degree but rather how I was treated by others because of these things I was unable to change or hide. Maybe they just felt sorry for me but whatever the case, I was allowed to grow and flourish just as the person I grew up to be. In reading all these stories of others, you have no idea how thankful I am for that.

I wish everyone could be as fortunate.

[josie76]

Lisa_K all input is welcome here. Everyone's experiences and ideas are different. We all gain from your sharing of your perspective on life, so please do continue to contribute. Don't feel you ar out of place in any conversation here.

[diane cara]

I am almost 60. I've known what I am since I was 5-6 years old (I did not have a vocabulary for it until the Rene Richards tennis controversy in 1974). There was little available literature back then, so I buried me under a male persona. Married. Kids. Divorced. One disabled child still lives with me and probably always will. Just passed my 5th anniversary with a new, wonderful woman. Yet a day doesn't go by without regretting what could have been. Most days there is a persistent (low level) sadness. I'm pretty sure I will die with these regrets, with this sadness. But it's too late for me. If you're younger, act and act now!

[zamber74]

It's one of those things I try not to think about, I try to stay focused on the positives in life.  Thinking about the past, how I wish everything had went, just is depressing.  I remember the nights as a child moving into puberty praying so hard that I would wake up in the right body, it even came to the point that I was considering to sell my soul, to a 11 year old in the 80s, who believed God was real, and that an eternal damnation was out there, that was a big deal. 

I remember taking a razor blade to my chest, because I could feel the girl inside of me, and I had become so convinced things were wrong that all I had to do was cut through the shell of my body and emerge, the run off, and start a new life.  That is pretty damned crazy, but I was younger, magical thinking was my coping mechanism. 

Years passed, always holding on to hope that one day it would happen, even in the 90s when I first got the Internet and did a ton of research and was incredibly close, I chose to hold off because in my 20s I thought I would never pass.  Not to mention, to even get on hormones required you to jump into it, start having rle immediately, and that was more than I would have been able to handle.

Yeah, I regret not transitioning, but what can one do?  It sucks, I look upon younger transitioners with a bit of jealousy.. if only I had been born twenty something years later, things could have gone completely differently.. I would still be transsexual, but at the very least the transition would have been easier, I would be in the company of people who understood what I was going through. 

And that is where I'll leave it, because it is a nice day outside, and I'm not going to drive myself into a depression.  You shouldn't either, none of you should.  Looking back and holding on to regret is not healthy. 

[Julia1996]

For some people early transition was just not possible. As Lisa K said, luck and the right circumstances has everything to do with being able to transition early. Without the full support of your parents or at least one of them you can't transition early. I am extremely lucky that my dad is so supportive. If he was a different person my life could have been a total  nightmare. If my dad had tried to force me to be a boy I would probably have killed myself or I would have ended up insane in a mental hospital. I find it funny that my mom gets so mad at my dad because he is so supportive of me when I think she had a lot to do with it. My mother had no interest in me as a baby or later. Because of that my dad is the one who took care of me and did everything for me when he was home. When he was at work I went to day care. Because of that I bonded with him instead of my mom and I'm very close with him. I think because of that he knows me much better than most fathers know their kids. I think that's one reason he is able to accept me being trans. So yeah, it sucks to have a distant mother but as far as my transition it's kind of lucky. But my life could just as easily have been horrible. If you couldn't transition early it's not a character flaw. It just wasnt a possibility for some people. And for those born before the 90s transition was not only impossible but dangerous. A lot of the stories here make me very sad. I also wonder how many trans people born in those times didn't survive to have a story. How many committed suicide out of despair,  were killed by intolerant people or had their brains turned to mush with electroshock, drugs and aversion therapy. For those of you who were born in the 50s, 60s, and 70's don't dwell on the fact you couldn't transition early. Even if your story is sad you are here to share it and that's something to be glad about.

[bobbisue]

And for those born before the 90s transition was not only impossible but dangerous. A lot of the stories here make me very sad. I also wonder how many trans people born in those times didn't survive to have a story. How many committed suicide out of despair,  were killed by intolerant people or had their brains turned to mush with electroshock, drugs and aversion therapy. For those of you who were born in the 50s, 60s, and 70's don't dwell on the fact you couldn't transition early. Even if your story is sad you are here to share it and that's something to be glad about.

   Julia You show wisdom far beyond your years in so many of your posts
    I am 57 and just starting transition in some ways I wish I could have started earlier but I have 6 wonderful children to show for it all supportive my youngest commented to me the other day in reply to my comment that they had all turned out to be great people  that I had raised them as their mother had little to do with them  so maybe I started my transition much sooner than I realized  I have no regrets and plan to live my remaining years to the fullest no looking back

   bobbisue

[Lisa_K]

Lisa_K all input is welcome here. Everyone's experiences and ideas are different. We all gain from your sharing of your perspective on life, so please do continue to contribute. Don't feel you are out of place in any conversation here.

Thank you, josie76. That was kind of you to say but I do feel very much like a fish out of water here most of the time and often feel like a pompous ass that might be making people feel bad when I do share my story.

... I look upon younger transitioners with a bit of jealousy.. if only I had been born twenty something years later, things could have gone completely differently.. I would still be transsexual, but at the very least the transition would have been easier, I would be in the company of people who understood what I was going through.

Don't idolize early transition or think that dealing with this as a kid is any easier. Granted, early enough to be suppressed and then starting HRT young negates most of the physical things that need to be corrected making it easier in that respect but kids are still little monsters and you will never be bullied and harassed as much as you will during your school years. It is only in very recent times this has changed. In my day, I was nearly killed in high school for being different and there was no one that understood what I was going through. Things are better for trans youth today but thinking they would have been much before the 2000's is probably a fantasy.

For some people early transition was just not possible. As Lisa K said, luck and the right circumstances has everything to do with being able to transition early. Without the full support of your parents or at least one of them you can't transition early. I am extremely lucky that my dad is so supportive. If he was a different person my life could have been a total  nightmare. If my dad had tried to force me to be a boy I would probably have killed myself or I would have ended up insane in a mental hospital. ... I also wonder how many trans people born in those times didn't survive to have a story. How many committed suicide out of despair,  were killed by intolerant people or had their brains turned to mush with electroshock, drugs and aversion therapy.

I feel this was the fate of kids like I was and like you are from my generation. Most didn't make it. To me that explains why there doesn't seem to be anyone that started HRT in high school much before the late 1970's and even those that did number in such low double digits as to be invisible and are pretty rare. The closest one to my own experience I've ever come across started HRT as an 18 year old in 1975. Like you, Julia, I started HRT at 17 but this was in 1972. I don't know how that was even possible and why I frequently have the feeling there is nobody like me which is weird when I think about so I try not to. When I do, it's kind of isolating. I'm like the baby of the "old-timers".

I don't quite understand it or what makes some of us so different that this becomes a matter of life and death as children and adolescents and isn't something that can be ignored or repressed regardless of how much parents or society try. I know for sure without the support of my folks and being allowed to do the things I did, I can say with certainty that I would have killed myself because all of this was so absolutely fundamental to my very existence, I would have rather died than to have ever grown up to be a man. I attribute the fact that I'm still around because I didn't have to do that and was never forced into being something I was not and could not be. It's almost more of a miracle rather than luck that my parents were so understanding and supportive. I consider them the radical trailblazers of the era, not me. All I had to do was be myself and they put up with as much or more crap than I ever did. My mom was the OG mama bear.

At least in 43/44 years from now when you are my age, there will be others that have shared your experience. Even if you have no contact with them, you'll know you weren't alone or the only one. Not that being kind of an outlier is a huge deal for me but it does kind of explain why the people I connect with the most in trans related aspects are your age and grew up like I did. I'd never even come across someone like that before until two years ago and now you're one of three that I know. That's had a lot of meaning for me.

For those of you who were born in the 50s, 60s, and 70's don't dwell on the fact you couldn't transition early. Even if your story is sad you are here to share it and that's something to be glad about.

Wise advice, indeed. Very wise.

[zamber74]

Don't idolize early transition or think that dealing with this as a kid is any easier. Granted, early enough to be suppressed and then starting HRT young negates most of the physical things that need to be corrected making it easier in that respect but kids are still little monsters and you will never be bullied and harassed as much as you will during your school years. It is only in very recent times this has changed. In my day, I was nearly killed in high school for being different and there was no one that understood what I was going through. Things are better for trans youth today but thinking they would have been much before the 2000's is probably a fantasy.

It is hard not to.  Of course, I had it much better than people born before me, I had the convenience of modern electricity, cable TV, vehicles to transport me, I did not witness my siblings dying from bacterial infections, religious persecution, invasions from other countries,  I did not have to worry about a plethora of scenarios that our ancestors did have to.. and those who were born a short time ago, don't have to deal with the things older people did.  Such is the wonder of progression in society.  It is like a mixture of gratitude and jealousy, I'm sure as hell am happy things are moving in the right direction.

Of course I feel a bit of jealousy, I feel like I was born in the wrong time.  Things that seem natural to me, that should not be an issue, were considered to be some cardinal sin by the vast majority of people and professionals just a short time ago.

But to dwell on it, is not going to do me any good.  The sad thing is, feeling jealous just makes me feel guilty, about the good things that I do have in life, to even consider it to me is as though I am looking a gift horse in the mouth..  But at the same time, I'm so frustrated with how society was, that I just want to scream.. all of this seems so absolutely ridiculous, no one should have ever had to deal with this.  This should never have ever even been an issue, but in all of humanity's great wisdom, it became one. 

[Complete]

I too feel very much like an outlier here and frankly, on every single trans forum that l have visited.  In short, my experience is seemingly unlike anyone's. Except for trying  (unsuccessfully) to repress who l was, virtually nothing,  except srs, is like anything anyone here has experienced. My point of reference is much closer to the conservative mainstream of society than anything trans.
I think perhaps this has to do with when  I made my change,  1972/1973,  and how that change was viewed at that time. My perception was that it was viewed as a "last resort"/"last ditch" attempt to save my life after all else had been tried and failed.
One similarity l do share with LisaK is that l was taken to a seemingly endless continuum of researchers and would be "experts". Most had no clue, having no meaningful frame of reference.
To extend or extrapolate my experience to say  a pre-teen exhibiting symptoms or behaviors similar to mine at that age, l am not convinced that the cultural milieu or infrastructure exists to facilitate a pain free or trauma free transition at that early age.
I am sure it could be done but imho, it would require the support of much more than what is currently available.

[Julia1996]

Transitioning young is still hard. Being trans at any age is hard. Yes there are advantages to transitioning young but it's far from being ideal. As Lisa K said, kids are horribly cruel. She was nearly beaten to death by other kids. I was never beaten up thankfully, I think a lot of it had to do with the fact they knew my brother would beat the crap out of them if they did, but they still said and did awful things to me. Everyone says high school doesn't last forever but when you face harassment every single day it sure feels like it lasts forever.

Then there is the problem of finances. If you you transition later in life it's more likely you can afford the surgery and other procedures. That's a huge plus with transitioning later. I'm very lucky that my dad can afford to pay for my SRS and is willing to. My surgery will cost $23,000.00 Thats only for the SRS. I'm not having BA or anything cosmetic done. If my dad couldn't afford to pay for it or he wasn't willing I would be screwed. It would take years for me to save that much. There are girls who had the support of their family and transitioned young but are now stuck being preop because they have no way to pay for surgery. It doesn't matter how young you transition if you can't ever have the SRS. Those who transitioned later have a huge advantage over a lot of people who transitioned young as far as finances go.

Passability is a big issue with people who transition early compared to people who transition later. HRT can only do so much as far as passability goes. A lot just depends on the genetic hand you've been dealt. Yes, starting HRT does produce better results than later. But starting hrt young is no guarantee of passability unless you start before male puberty starts. I started hrt at 17 years old. Male puberty had already struck. For reasons I will never know but am very thankful for, puberty didn't do much to me. I suspect the same is true with Lisa K. By all rights I should have developed a lot more male characteristics by age 17. My brother was already 6'4 at 17. He already had full facial hair, an Adams apple, very deep voice and male musculature. I had none of that at 17. My brother isn't trans but lets imagine he was. Lets say he started hrt at 17 like I did. He would have needed a ton of electrolysis on his face and chest. He would need his Adams apple shaved. His voice is really deep so he would probably have needed vocal cord surgery.  He's very handsome as a guy but not really in a fem way. He would need FFS.  Especially for his jawline. After all that he would still be 6'4, have big hands and feet and while hrt would have helped a lot, I don't think it could completely erase his male musculature.  So even though he started hrt at 17, he wouldn't be necessarily more passable than someone starting later in life. It just depends on what you have to start with, which nobody can control.

It's a waste of time regretting not transitioning earlier. You're putting yourself through unnecessary stress. I know it's human nature to be envious but people who transition early still have many of the same problems and worries as all transwomen. And it doesn't matter if you transition at 5 or 90, as trans people we ALL face discrimination and hatred together.

[Amoré]

It's a waste of time regretting not transitioning earlier. You're putting yourself through unnecessary stress. I know it's human nature to be envious but people who transition early still have many of the same problems and worries as all transwomen. And it doesn't matter if you transition at 5 or 90, as trans people we ALL face discrimination and hatred together.

Yeah it is pretty much a waste of time. Nothing I can do about it now. It is the scars that have been created over the years that haunt me. Those things that hurt really badly and just looking back and thinking damn that 10 years with my ex was a total waist of time. I love my child dearly that came out of the marriage but that is the only part I love about that period. Trying to be a guy for people was a waist of time because I transitioned anyway. I could have done it back then. It is more the life that I had in that period of time up until now that I regret but that is over now. I won't say at my age I am in a better financial position to afford srs it was only luck of the draw and my fiance is paying for it actually without him I would not have been able to afford it also.

[Aurorasky]

Hi Amoré and everyone,

I can relate to the feeling of wanting this to be done earlier. I think when there's something holding you back from taking a really importane decision it'll always be a relief when you finally get to "do it", and it will always feel like it was such a long time for it to happen, regardless of it taking nly one day or one hundred years. I also can't imagine how painful and hard it must be to this after you've had a life established as male, there are just so many unspoken rules and chains to break from, it must be a tough mountain to climb.

I'm just here to say that regret is normal and to be expected, but you have to let go of that to reach your potential. Dwelling in on the past will take away focus from the presente that can be necessary for you to achieve your goals or reach a point of understanding of life where you start to really forgive yourself for what happened. We must take responsibility for what we do in life, of course, it's healthy that you do but the past is the past. You did what you did because that's what you were able to in that moment.

Transitioning early could have saved some masculization from happening but even then that's not guaranteed. Unless you start before puberty. Which, despite more visibility in these days, is still super, super rare. And those who obviously have very supportive families or care givers. And I'm not calling these children lucky. I don't believe anyone who's born trans is lucky. And even people who transition earlier have sorrow of their own. Imagine being a 16 year old trans girl who has lived as a girl for 4 years and still has to wait 2 more years till SRS and who wants to have boyfriend. That's a real struggle.

I was able to transition when I was 18, two years and a half ago. Doing it sooner would have helped free myself and of constant harassment I dealt with as a young kid and teenager. It was unbearable and I felt powerless about it because I couldn't do much about it, it was just who I was. I feel like an alien too sometimes when I read about the transsexuals struggling with having to be more feminine, or struggling with social transitioned. For me the trouble was always that I was too feminine and couldn't stop being so...to the point of my transition never feeling like a transition at all, just feeling right. I just had to stop pretending I was a boy. It was much more painful to live as one. I guess it's just a very diferent experience but everything has its costs. I still feel so innocent, and have never had a boyfriend (have only been with one guy) for exemple. I am one of those girls who transitioned without parental support, I had to work my way thrugh to change my name and legal documents, buy my clothes, etc etc. It was difficult and it leaves maks on you. Finally my folks my accepted and I was able to have SRS this year, one month before my birthday. I feel grateful for this but I'm here just to remind you all that's no rainbows and flowers. No path ever is.

[Amoré]

It was unbearable and I felt powerless about it because I couldn't do much about it, it was just who I was. I feel like an alien too sometimes when I read about the transsexuals struggling with having to be more feminine, or struggling with social transitioned. For me the trouble was always that I was too feminine and couldn't stop being so...to the point of my transition never feeling like a transition at all, just feeling right.

You guys are right leave the past in the past. I can relate to this as I am very feminine myself. People always thought I was a closeted gay. I did the metro sexual thing for years. I just could not be a manly man. I hated it.No matter how I tried acting as a guy I always ended up weird and stupid. If I could not be a girl I told myself I will be a pretty boy.I wore foundation and eyeliner. I even did on my wedding. Not that my ex really approved but she thought it is part of the metrosexual thing. Acting like a guy was just what it was acting and I even did that badly. The day when I started transitioning I didn't have a struggle being a girl or acting like other girls. I was just finally myself. People joke and say I am more feminine than my ex.

[josie76]

It's really interesting reading everyone's thoughts and insights about this.

Some things struck me. I never had to struggle with being feminine once I came out. I struggled to stop falling into old protective patterns when guys were around however. Looking back, life has always been about avoidance. Mainly avoiding anything or any movement that would appear feminine to guys. Once I began letting that old guard down, my nature, whatever it is started appearing without effort. My spouse says I'm a completely different person. I don't feel different, just free of my institutionalize bonds.
I was never a macho guy. I just struggled to remain invisible. I tried my best to just be accepted in the periphery of male groups. I never felt like I ever fit in. Again just feeling invisible was where I tried to remain. I worried so much about what guys perceived me as I almost never had the mental capacity to think about how women would see me or be able to socialize with them. It's something I missed. Somehow felt the void of female socialization. IDK, there's only so much "guy" talk I can listen to. Lol
It was impossible to even find information when I was young. The only media examples of trans people were for comedic parts in movies and TV shows. I know many my age and older found something to occupy their minds with. For a lot it was alcohol, others drugs, I stayed away from those mainly because I didn't want to be anything like my dad who was drunk all the time. I focused on logical things. Cars, mechanics, later electronics. I used these things to always stay busy and never let my mind feel anything. I thought about suicide when I felt anything at all. I am so glad I finally found my escape from hell, even if it did take me 40 years to do it!