GRS Anxieties... Drawbacks vs. Rewards...

[Allie24]

I am having an orchiectomy this year... I am doing so because it is what I can afford and because complete removal of testosterone from my body is a top priority. Also, I have a lot of anxiety around GRS... it is not a magic wand that changes my genitalia with a soft "poof," it is a deeply invasive surgery that involves months of recovery and could result in some serious emotional distress for me as a result of the physical trauma and a sudden change in my entire reality.

"But if it sounds so horrific and scary, why even consider?"

A few reasons... long term relief in regards to my anxiety surrounding sexual intimacy and overall bodily integrity. I have faked more you-know-whats than I can count... sex, for me, is all about the other person because I cannot bring myself 100% into the moment... I feel so much distress being touched that I just don't let it happen. This would all be fine and good if I was asexual, but I am not... and the inability of my partner to do anything for me breaks my heart and has made me so desperate as to consider intercourse as an option (the only other time I have attempted this was pre-HRT... so I was thinking that even if I don't like it... at the very least it does something...), but this is an unhelpful mentality and will probably be discarded, even in the event that it does give me some pleasure, because it is something that I strongly dislike doing and have experienced dissociation when engaged in it, and these combing feelings/experiences will wear on me after a while.

Also, seeing/feeling... it... every day becomes tiresome.

But I'm afraid that I cannot handle SRS. Financial problems, aside, I fear that having the surgery could destroy me. I am very physically sensitive, and such a massive surgery I will feel in every fiber of my being and cause a lot of trauma. Not to mention the sudden absence of something that has been there my entire life could shock me senseless... but the potential pay off in the long-term... that is hard to ignore.

Essentially I am put in a position where I have to either a.) commit to surgery or b.) I don't know... maybe consult a therapist on how to deal with dysphoria in regards to physical intimacy and just learn to "deal"...

I don't know what I'm expecting to hear back from everyone... something I guess. This has been rattling in my head for so long I just have to let it loose.

[kat69]

Allie,  no one has all the answers...even for themselves.   I think you are on the right track with your thinking, you are looking as lots of,factors and using both logic and emotion. 

I don't have the same concerns as you....for me Body Image and physical completeness is a priority.  I have spent long periods without intimacy and I know,that although I do want it, not having intimacy is worth becoming myself. 

I guess I'm trying to say that only you can assess what is a priority for you.  I've been told that the surgery is traumatic, yet every single girl has felt complete the moment that they are awake.  I know I will be able to work through it to be me...

[HappyMoni]

Allie, I would like to answer your thread, but am not sure what info would help you. Your path is unique for you. I have found GCS very important to me. It has given a peace in my life that I have needed for a long time. It doesn't fix any other problems in my life but I didn't expect it would. The process of getting it done was not traumatic for me. It was an amazing life experience, a rare time in my life where I became who I wanted to be in an amazing way. I guess I could have focused on the pain, or discomfort, or worry, but then I would have missed this important milestone in my life. People might think this is corny or naively dismissive of the negative stuff. For me, I battled all my life to be a whole person, not two battling halves wrestling for control of my gender. This step relieved me of so much more pain than any surgery physically inflicted. Like I said, your path is different, and I won't try to convince you it is what you need. I thought I would share my experience. If it is of any help, good.
Moni

[Doreen]

OH, every time I hear its a 'horrible scary procedure with tons of bad stuff that can happen' well ANY surgery is scary.. and can have bad stuff happen... from something simple as a laparoscopy to something as complex as GRS.   In the end, I look at who's qualified, and has done this literally thousands of times.   

I had it done to my ambiguous stuff, and am SO incredibly happy I did... when you say 'soft ploosh' that's kinda what comes to mind decades later when I think about the final results.

I can't speak for everyone but I'm incredibly happy now...far more so now than I ever was before.   BUT you have to make your own choices in life... I hope that you are happy with whatever they are in the end.

[Dani]

While we all have different experiences, my GCS was painless. I used no pain relievers during recovery and the months of healing. Yes, I was a little sore down there, but not unlike a bad abdominal cramp. The internal joy I experienced waking up after my GCS overwhelmed any discomfort from the surgery. Now almost 2 years post-op, I cannot understand why I waited so long. For many of us, GCS is not a final event, it is the beginning of a wonderful new chapter in our life.

[Mandy M]

Hi Allie,

Thank you so much for your honest post. This is where a forum like this can come into its own.

This may not be a popular message but I would go against those who urge you to proceed. If you have this much confusion then I don't believe having highly invasive life-changing body-altering surgery is going to be your panacea. It simply isn't, though this is a common mistake in this community. You need to see someone professional and very, very, good in my opinion to talk through where you are at. If you can say which country you are in, then I might be able to give you a steer.

Re. the orchiectomy, whilst it's true that this is much less invasive it's still life-changing and body-altering. You will never get back your testicles, nor your ability to reproduce. It's an operation which may leave you feeling somewhat neutral which can be positive, but also disorienting. You will still have your penis, a bulge (albeit smaller) and look down to male genitalia. These are psychologically significant points. Hormonally, though, you will be entirely non-male. As you say, your testosterone will vanish entirely. Assuming you take some oestrogen, which you will need to in order to prevent osteoporosis, then you will be hormonally female. You will probably lose most function down below though it sounds as if this will be less vital to you. Your prostate is still a powerful gland and can produce ejaculate.

I tend to think of an orchiectomy as a staging post: a launch pad for the next phase. There are some exceptions to this, but generally it's the case that it's a half-way house. As such, it may help you to experience it in terms of then preparing yourself for the bigger operation to come. But only if you are absolutely sure about not wanting to be male because effectively that's what will happen with the orchie, albeit retaining your main male member.

My advice? Please seek some further therapy if you can from someone really good and empathetic. Talk through all these issues, including your fears regarding surgery, but most importantly about your gender identity. If you are really truly sure you want to be female then presumably vaginoplasty is the way ahead? When you are ready.

Hugs

x

[Allie24]

Hi Allie,

Thank you so much for your honest post. This is where a forum like this can come into its own.

This may not be a popular message but I would go against those who urge you to proceed. If you have this much confusion then I don't believe having highly invasive life-changing body-altering surgery is going to be your panacea. It simply isn't, though this is a common mistake in this community. You need to see someone professional and very, very, good in my opinion to talk through where you are at. If you can say which country you are in, then I might be able to give you a steer.

Re. the orchiectomy, whilst it's true that this is much less invasive it's still life-changing and body-altering. You will never get back your testicles, nor your ability to reproduce. It's an operation which may leave you feeling somewhat neutral which can be positive, but also disorienting. You will still have your penis, a bulge (albeit smaller) and look down to male genitalia. These are psychologically significant points. Hormonally, though, you will be entirely non-male. As you say, your testosterone will vanish entirely. Assuming you take some oestrogen, which you will need to in order to prevent osteoporosis, then you will be hormonally female. You will probably lose most function down below though it sounds as if this will be less vital to you. Your prostate is still a powerful gland and can produce ejaculate.

I tend to think of an orchiectomy as a staging post: a launch pad for the next phase. There are some exceptions to this, but generally it's the case that it's a half-way house. As such, it may help you to experience it in terms of then preparing yourself for the bigger operation to come. But only if you are absolutely sure about not wanting to be male because effectively that's what will happen with the orchie, albeit retaining your main male member.

My advice? Please seek some further therapy if you can from someone really good and empathetic. Talk through all these issues, including your fears regarding surgery, but most importantly about your gender identity. If you are really truly sure you want to be female then presumably vaginoplasty is the way ahead? When you are ready.

Hugs

x

Wow. This was amazing, thank you.

I can tell you that I have no problem with losing the Twins. Impregnating another person is something I always knew would be insanely traumatic for me, and testosterone... I will be happy living the rest of my life without it (and I think HRT killed my prostate... nothing comes out of the Problem anymore... not for over year). Being hormonally female would be a dream.

I live in the US, in Chicago (cuz you asked lol).

This is whole transition has felt nothing but right to me. It feels like every aspect of who I am (physically, socially, etc.) was suited for it, and having full SRS will render me indistinguishable from biological females. Sadly, it just so happens that SRS is a super massive surgery that I will def feel through my entire body, and that's where I get stuck.

[Sophia Sage]

It's very difficult to elicit proper binary gendering in intimate situations with the wrong genitalia.  If you suffer actual gender dysphoria, the surgery will be an immense relief.

I disagree that it's a super massive surgery, technically speaking.  Brassard regularly does them in only a couple of hours, for example.  The discomfort is localized, and proper pain management techniques minimize most of that, though it's pretty typical to take a couple months to get back to full strength.  And then it's over.

But you're right that it can be a massive surgery psychologically speaking.  It will change your self perception, much for the better if you need female gendering.  It will increase the number of social situations in which you can participate, and will grease the wheels as far as changing certain kinds of documentation is concerned.  And it will change how your most intimate partners view you -- which I have found to be incredibly affirming.   

As Mandy wisely points out, it really comes down to your sense of identity and how important it is to you to be gendered female in all respects. 

[Allie24]

It's very difficult to elicit proper binary gendering in intimate situations with the wrong genitalia.  If you suffer actual gender dysphoria, the surgery will be an immense relief.

I disagree that it's a super massive surgery, technically speaking.  Brassard regularly does them in only a couple of hours, for example.  The discomfort is localized, and proper pain management techniques minimize most of that, though it's pretty typical to take a couple months to get back to full strength.  And then it's over.

But you're right that it can be a massive surgery psychologically speaking.  It will change your self perception, much for the better if you need female gendering.  It will increase the number of social situations in which you can participate, and will grease the wheels as far as changing certain kinds of documentation is concerned.  And it will change how your most intimate partners view you -- which I have found to be incredibly affirming.   

As Mandy wisely points out, it really comes down to your sense of identity and how important it is to you to be gendered female in all respects.

I am presently in a long term relationship with partner who does not gender my genitalia (or rather, she knows how to separate it from who I really am). I intend this relationship to be lifelong and while that does relieve the pressure of having female genitalia just to date, it makes intimacy difficult regardless. I can tolerate being touched but I can hardly say that I come out of such situations unscathed. Sex as a whole is traumatizing. I can barely tolerate the subject... and I want so bad for my body to be simply be female. I can't predict how it will respond, physically, to the surgery, nor can I predict its potential complications... surgery, as a whole, gives me anxiety, whether its sex reassignment or a kidney transplant or what have you. I have never in my life undergone any surgical procedures... an orchie makes for an excellent segway, and buys me the time to save up and prepare (mentally and emotionally and physically).

To have a body that can be readily identified as female is what I need, and if magic could grant me that, I would seize it, but I'm not sure it I'm prepared for what could potentially be lost from it... to have things not function, or to die in the process, or to have to return to fix complications. I feel like I will somehow fall into that small number of people who have an awful experience and this fear holds me back

[Devlyn]

I didn't feel disoriented after my orchiectomy, I'd say that would require an immediate call to your medical provider.

So sorry you went through that, Mandy.

Hugs, Devlyn

[Allie24]

I didn't feel disoriented after my orchiectomy, I'd say that would require an immediate call to your medical provider.

So sorry you went through that, Mandy.

Hugs, Devlyn

I'm really not all that worried about the orchie. I really won't miss the Twins when they're gone.

[AnonyMs]

There's a really good series of posts by a women who nearly cancelled her SRS at the last minute, in hospital, though fear. Dig around though these posts.

https://lifesexperimentblog.wordpress.com/

[Sophia Sage]

I am presently in a long term relationship with partner who does not gender my genitalia (or rather, she knows how to separate it from who I really am). I intend this relationship to be lifelong and while that does relieve the pressure of having female genitalia just to date, it makes intimacy difficult regardless. I can tolerate being touched but I can hardly say that I come out of such situations unscathed. Sex as a whole is traumatizing. I can barely tolerate the subject... and I want so bad for my body to be simply be female.

Sounds like gender dysphoria to me.  It's great you have a partner that understands, but still.

I can't predict how it will respond, physically, to the surgery, nor can I predict its potential complications... surgery, as a whole, gives me anxiety, whether its sex reassignment or a kidney transplant or what have you. I have never in my life undergone any surgical procedures...

So, on the one hand, there's persistent dysphoria.  The devil you know, who stands at 100% probability of delivering known misery if you don't move on.  On the other hand, you have fear.  Anxiety about something you've never experienced, something with a very high success rate and hence a very low rate of severe complications. 

And you're picking the 100% misery option, over the option with much better odds of delivering happiness. 

Do you want to live a life motivated by fear?  Or do you want to pursue happiness?

an orchie makes for an excellent segway, and buys me the time to save up and prepare (mentally and emotionally and physically).

An orchie doesn't help you save for SRS.  It will delay the opportunity to have it, because now you've just sunk several thousand dollars into something that would have been taken care of anyways.  Furthermore, an orchie can make it more difficult to achieve top-notch results with vaginoplasty.

It's almost as if you're making a choice to make it more difficult to get SRS, all so you don't have to confront your fears about it. 

[Allie24]

Not exactly. A big part of having the orchie done is the removal of testosterone, which causes me significantly more distress than my genitalia.

Anxieties aside (which will most likely be overcome with time), I can in no way accumulate anything close to the amount necessary to afford full SRS. If I had money like that at my disposal, trust me, things would be different, and I probably would not be as on the fence about things. And even if I did have that money, we're talking another two years of electrolysis to remove the hair down there in preparation for surgery.

Preventing the development of male secondary sex characteristics is my top priority. I would rather pass 100% socially than have a vagina, if I were forced to make a choice. Having an orchie will settle my worry of looking male ever being a possibility, and also the fear of feeling the painful presence of T in my system and make the wait for SRS that much easier. Especially if I ever find myself in a situation where I am without hormones or blockers.

If you know of methods that will get me the money I need for full SRS (plus electrolysis), then please let me know, for that would be a wonderful wonderful thing. An orchiectomy is the closest I can get, being a student and part-time barista.

I just can't stomach 5-8 years with T lurking like a nasty thundercloud over my head.

[SadieBlake]

Mandy, I can't see that anyone has advocated per se on the OP's question.

Allie,

I have to agree with Sophia that starting with an orchie will use funds that you'd otherwise save toward the full monty as it were. **not saying what you should do but that is a fair point**

Is testosterone not being addressed with HRT (some form of estrogen and probably and AA)? If it is (and it certainly should be) then I don't get the immediacy of doing an orchie.

Here's my experience, as ever ymmv. I quite agonized over proceeding to GCS and if you look at my thread on the subject https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,218067.0.html you can see the blow-by-blow of my decision.

TL:DR for that would be on the one hand I had been able to enjoy sex with my builtin equipment and my GF very much gendered me and preferred that. At the same time it was clear that I was more and more dysphoric about sex with an outie and ultimately I came to realized that while I wanted a post-op sexuality with a functioning vagina, my mental health was more important.

Happily I came through with both. For now passing isn't an option for me (I'll be looking at minoxidil for fixing baldness when I can afford that). So my priorities, while conflicted were somewhat different from yours. ANd to be sure, for me the first two months of recovery sucked. I'd had 3 prior surgeries and this was the hardest by far and I'd say I was middle of the road on pain and perhaps a bit ahead of the normal curve on pace of my healing. I would never downplay the experience and at the same time it amounted to just 2 difficult months (during which I was still pretty damned happy as things progressed step by step). That's a pretty small window of time and today I'm immeasurably happier. Conservatively speaking I've got 20 more really good years ahead of me and if I'd known what I know today when I was 20, I'd have done it there and then. However the options in 1976 were pretty limited.

I did have prior surgical experience and I think that helped me make the decision. I have a close friend who's extremely phobic about medical stuff generally and have spent a good deal of time filling in a vacuum of information that for her is largely filled with fear. On the other hand I expressed the things that had been hardest about my prior experiences and was very pleased that my surgeon and anesthesiologist did an amazing job of mitigating those things

The biggest surprise is how much happier I am with my body. I had imagined as a post-op female that I would be spending my time mostly not passing and mostly dressed DRAB (which is how I spent RLE, wearing mostly butch clothing & doing what little I could to convey femme in hairstyle, makeup and the tops I'd wear. Come to find without the <shenis>, I now wear a skirt 80% of the time and am far happier with my non-passing appearance than I was before.

The only suggestion I can make is get support, sit with the options and I think you'll come to the right answer.

[Allie24]

Mandy, I can't see that anyone has advocated per se on the OP's question.

Allie,

I have to agree with Sophia that starting with an orchie will use funds that you'd otherwise save toward the full monty as it were. **not saying what you should do but that is a fair point**

Is testosterone not being addressed with HRT (some form of estrogen and probably and AA)? If it is (and it certainly should be) then I don't get the immediacy of doing an orchie.

Here's my experience, as ever ymmv. I quite agonized over proceeding to GCS and if you look at my thread on the subject https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,218067.0.html you can see the blow-by-blow of my decision.

TL:DR for that would be on the one hand I had been able to enjoy sex with my builtin equipment and my GF very much gendered me and preferred that. At the same time it was clear that I was more and more dysphoric about sex with an outie and ultimately I came to realized that while I wanted a post-op sexuality with a functioning vagina, my mental health was more important.

Happily I came through with both. For now passing isn't an option for me (I'll be looking at minoxidil for fixing baldness when I can afford that). So my priorities, while conflicted were somewhat different from yours. ANd to be sure, for me the first two months of recovery sucked. I'd had 3 prior surgeries and this was the hardest by far and I'd say I was middle of the road on pain and perhaps a bit ahead of the normal curve on pace of my healing. I would never downplay the experience and at the same time it amounted to just 2 difficult months (during which I was still pretty damned happy as things progressed step by step). That's a pretty small window of time and today I'm immeasurably happier. Conservatively speaking I've got 20 more really good years ahead of me and if I'd known what I know today when I was 20, I'd have done it there and then. However the options in 1976 were pretty limited.

I did have prior surgical experience and I think that helped me make the decision. I have a close friend who's extremely phobic about medical stuff generally and have spent a good deal of time filling in a vacuum of information that for her is largely filled with fear. On the other hand I expressed the things that had been hardest about my prior experiences and was very pleased that my surgeon and anesthesiologist did an amazing job of mitigating those things

The biggest surprise is how much happier I am with my body. I had imagined as a post-op female that I would be spending my time mostly not passing and mostly dressed DRAB (which is how I spent RLE, wearing mostly butch clothing & doing what little I could to convey femme in hairstyle, makeup and the tops I'd wear. Come to find without the <shenis>, I now wear a skirt 80% of the time and am far happier with my non-passing appearance than I was before.

The only suggestion I can make is get support, sit with the options and I think you'll come to the right answer.

I have an anti-androgen, but I don't like relying on a pill to block testosterone. I would rather not have it period.

[SadieBlake]

I get that and that's another dimension in which I am super-lucky; I didn't need an AA to completely eliminate T, it turned out my T was always fairly low, ca. 5th percentile and so just taking E by weekly injection brought me down to low-female levels. I was especially glad of this because of the effects spiro has on potassium.

Oh and you also asked about the costs of gcs and the necessary hair removal. I had both fully covered by insurance (the electrolysis part took a long time to get approved & reimbursed but it was fully covered). The money I spent was to keep my insurance in place with COBRA and to get myself and my GF to SF and back. Massachusetts is one of the states that mandates GCS has to be covered (things like facial hair removal I don't know about).