38 Large C/Small D cups to make permanent

[Billie6]

I just registered. I am a male who loves my breasts and i tuck and wear shapewear along with nice bras. I started about 4 years ago using herbal supplements. I have also used Noogleberry breast enlargement pump. about 2-3 years ago I stopped using herbal supplements and started estradiol injections with progesterone (under a Doctor's care) I stopped the injections about a year ago because I had reached my cup size goal. I was concerned that I might lose my cup size and began taking different herbal supplements. Here is my dilemma: I have had a partial thyroidectomy and have my THS level Female and testosterone levels checked regularly. I also take Finasteride. I wear guy clothes (w/ women's undergarments). I want to continue living as a male who has breasts and very sensitive nipples. I have even taken prolactin and used a Medela double breast electric pump. I am able to lactate but have not pumped enough to have my milk come fully in. I would like to have that happen but it is not practical for me to do that. I can't seem to keep my body temperature at or above the 98.2 degree level for the other supplements to take effect. I do take a prescriptin does of Progesterone and smaller doses of prolactin (I like to lactate and my milk is sweet even though I do not produce significant quantities) My question is does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can raise my body temperature levels (my range is 96.7 to 97.9) Sometimes I can get above 98.2 and I do sleep with a warm electric blanket. I am 66 years old and pretty active. my measurements are 38 C/D X 34-35Waist X 40 hips. My tummy looks pretty much female. I don't want to transition anymore than this but I do want the herbal supplements, progesterone and prolactin to make my changes permanent. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I am not comfortable with sending pictures yet and I am not even sure if showing my breasts, waists and hips are appropriate for this site. Sorry for making this so long. This is the first site I have actually sent in comments/questions even though I have looked at Susan's place for years. Any insight/advice would be appreciated.

[Kendra]

Hello Billie6, welcome to Susan's Place. 

I can't directly answer your question as some things are best left to medical professionals.  My recommendation is to check with the doctor where you received your estradiol & progesterone prescription, or consider consulting with an endocrinologist. 

I'll add the following information we provide to new members:

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Thanks, and best wishes.

Kendra

[AnonyMs]

You've ruled out a BA surgery?

I don't think its a good idea taking some of those things you mentioned. I'd be taking proper drugs only. You can reduce the dosages to a low level if you want.

For lactation, have a look at this

http://www.milkjunkies.net/2013/05/trans-women-and-breastfeeding-personal.html

[zirconia]

I'm curious.

It sounds like your primary question is how to raise your body temperature. When you say you want to raise it to 98.2° do you mean you want that to be the minimum or the average? Do you want the increase to be permanent or just temporary? The qualification "for long enough to" would seem to indicate the latter. If so, how long is "long enough"?

I do know certain types of drugs can elevate body temperature. Some of them can be a bit dangerous, though, so perhaps asking a friendly doctor for help would be the safest thing to do.

[Billie6]

Hi Zirconia: this is my second attempt at responding to you because I accidentally deleted the first one.
Since I had my partial thyroidectomy several years ago I have had a problem with hypothyroidism which among other things has symptomatic low body temperature. Since I have worked for 4 years to gain my C / D cup size I don't want to lose it. In order for me to make the cup sizes permanent I am taking a glandular supplement that is touted to make the female breasts that I have permanent along with my waist and tummy and hips which are slowly adding more fat distribution to the areas that a woman would have. However in order to accomplish this I have to consistently maintain a body temperature of 98.2 degrees or higher. 98.6 degrees is of course a normal body temperature. So anywhere around that temperature would be acceptable. My family doctor has stated that he cannot be much help. The transgender doctor Who I have seen lives an hour and 45 minutes away from me. After explaining my situation to him he told me that he actually thought I knew more about the subject than he did and recommended that I go to a bigger city which is approximately 250 miles away. He also did not know anyone to refer me to. This is another reason why I decided to try this forum to maybe get some insight from people who have experience with what I am doing. I do want the changes to be permanent. Another Forum member queried whether I have considered breast augmentation. I have not done this because I have a friend who did that and one of her breasts in the nipple area lost all of its feeling. I don't want that to happen to me and I've been pretty successful in growing my breasts to a d size from a flat chested male. I hope this helps cover some things and I would be very appreciative of anyone else including you who might have some suggestions. I really like your idea of talking to a friendly Dr. I know several but have never really discussed my particular situation with them. However it wouldn't hurt to just ask them if they have some medicine or some ideas on how to increase and maintain my body temperature. Mostly they just tell me to exercise which is good advice and which I'm not very good at being consistent at doing. My bad.

[AnonyMs]

Regarding surgery, just guessing, but you might Get a better result with a surgeon who has experience with trans patients. There's also fat transfer to the breasts.

Regarding the body temperature, you're seeing a specialist like an endo rather than a GP?

I've been on hrt 9 years now and still live and present male. My body is quite female, but with the facial hair I still look very male. Not sure you'd like the mental effects of hrt though.

[Billie6]

Hi AnonyMs:
I appreciate your Insight and thought-provoking questions. I'm not in a position to do breast implants and since I went off the estradiol progesterone and prolactin about 8 months ago I have not noticed any reduction in my breast sizes. That has been encouraging. As I mentioned in one of my other responses I would really rather be all natural. Your article was extremely helpful and encouraging. It has been an interesting experience to grow breasts and lactate because along with that has developed some maternal feelings of wanting to care for and the nurse a baby. Unfortunately I don't think I'll ever have that opportunity.
Regarding the supplements and different things that I tried as I was getting started I did quite a lot of research and discussing with the medical people. I'm actually in the medical field. I have to be very careful who I talk to though because I live in a small community and you know how gossip can get around. I never did try any of those other approaches all at once. I would try one and discontinue and then try another and discontinue and it was interesting because each time each of them helped a little bit. However it wasn't until I started using the estradiol injections along with progesterone and prolactin that I really saw growth. I also have two atribut a great deal of the growth to using the breast expansion cups. They have worked great. When other bit of information that has been interesting for me to discover was that my breasts actually started growing because I have had a couple of minor heart attacks in years past and because of the heart medications and some antidepressants as well as some other medications that I take as well as dairy products and a host of other foods that have estrogen in them that is one of my breasts actually started to develop which caused me to be interested in seeing if I could grow them bigger. Anyway thank you for your Insight and that wonderful article. I was jealous that Sarah could do what I I think I'm capable of doing but will never get the chance to try it. KKTNCC

[zirconia]

In order for me to make the cup sizes permanent I am taking a glandular supplement that is touted to make the female breasts that I have permanent along with my waist and tummy and hips which are slowly adding more fat distribution to the areas that a woman would have. However in order to accomplish this I have to consistently maintain a body temperature of 98.2 degrees or higher

Hi Billie,

I really can't offer advice from my own experience, as my own basal temperature is high enough to almost count as a low fever and I've no experience with glandular supplements.

That said, if your thyroid trouble is what's causing the lowered temperature, then I do think that asking a doctor for thyroid hormone supplementation would sound like a logical first step. The effects of triiodothyronine are well-known, so I believe a doctor would find such a request more easy to fulfill than other protocols. At least I think it may be worth a try...

[AnonyMs]

Those supplements you mention may be natural in a sense but I don't think they are healthy or a good idea. What's really natural is human estrogen without all the impurities that come with supplements. Just drop the dosage down to what you're happy with and it will be safer and more effective.

Personally there's no way I'd touch anything but pharmaceutical bioidentical estrogen. Most other forms are not effective and the ones that are effective are also dangerous.

Here's a good post on low dose hrt

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=130268.0

[Billie6]

Hi Zirconia and AnoyMs:
   Sometimes it is difficult to see the obvious (can't see the forest for the trees) Zirconia, I immediately sent a request to my GP for ideas/medications on how to raise my temperature to a consistent level over 98.2. I'll see what he has to say. If that doesn't work I'll try the ENT who removed part of my Thyroid several years ago. AnoyMs, Thank you for the low dosage link (I read all of the posts and have a much greater appreciation for your circumstances and find that we have a lot in common.) . (I can't seem to navigate my way around Susans place very well.) Re: seeing an endo, I live in a small rural town in Southeastern Idaho, Twin falls. Too many people know me and I know them. The TG Doctor I see in Pocatello, ID (I mentioned this in a previous post, said he thinks I know more about these issues than he does, which is unsettling because I don't feel I know that much.) My GP has also said he doesn't know that much and doesn't know anyone in this area who does. Boise, ID and Salt Lake City, UT and Idaho Falls, ID are between 140 and 250 miles away and I don't know anyone. There are some who know and I am sure there are those who have noticed my breasts, even though I wear loose clothing.
     I think i will contact the TG Doctor in Pocatello, ID for help with an Endocrinologist. I need to contact him to get a mammogram referral anyway. Again I need to be discreet. I do have some Medical friends/associates who are aware of my situation and agree that Twin Falls, ID is too small a community to be going to anyone in this area. Thank you for your comments and suggestions. Zirconia, would you mind telling me a little about your situation? Now that I have finally decided to make some contact on this site, it is nice to know that there are those who like being female or gender neutral or have transitioned or are transitioning and that I am not the only person in the world that feels the way i do. (still present as a male.) AnonyMs, I struggle with thoughts and feelings of wanting to transition but my circumstances won't allow it. I am happily married and my wife is understanding to a point. But only up to a point.

[Cindy]

Hi Billie,
As for missing the forest for the trees I think I just tripped over a log.

I missed that you have had a thyroidectomy. I presume it was partial?

Is your thyroid function being monitored? It should be but of course outside of regular check ups it may have been missed.
I ask because of course a side effect of thyroidectomy and/or an inactive thyroid is an inability to maintain core temperature. Hence feeling cold etc.

I ask because my thyroid was cooked with radiotherapy and as I was small and skinny anyway before any therapy I feel the cold all the time even on a 35C day.

I'm on thyroxine which is the very easy way to replace thyroid function. I'm presuming you are as well?

Sorry if this post is verbose but I'm just getting my head around the medicine not the boobs - I thought the two were related but I think I may have been confused.

Cindy

[Billie6]

Hi Cindy:
   Nice to meet you!  I think I have seen one or more of your posts before. Yes! It was a partial thyroidectomy and I have my THS levels checked a couple times a year. Last time they were in an okay range but not great. The doctor hasn't been concerned about my lowered temperatures and I haven't really pushed the issue. However, earlier today I sent him a request for some help in that area. I don't like feeling cold. I also take a glandular ovary supplement that only works for breast growth and to make them permanent if my temperature is consistently 98.2 or higher. I am rarely over the 98.2 threshold.    What do you do to manage your body temperature?
   Re: my boob growth, while using the breast enhancement pump they will actually expand to DD and then relax to where I where i wear a D cup bra. Lately they seem to be a little smaller, (although it may be that they are just softer. I take a loft of collagen) even though I still wear the D cup size bra. I have always had a smaller frame ( I am actually 36 and a half to 37 but as you probably already know the manufacturers say to go up to a 38" band size. I have done that and it seems to work well. I also wear shape-wear that keeps allows me to present as different sizes along with the bras. It is meaningful to me, even though no one else but my wife gets to see them. (sigh). as you probably already read, I am 66 years old and started this transition 4 years ago. It has been an amazing experience. Tell me about your journey.

[AnonyMs]

I struggle with thoughts and feelings of wanting to transition but my circumstances won't allow it. I am happily married and my wife is understanding to a point. But only up to a point.

It sounds like you are binary trans and identify as female, which is not the impression that I originally had. Would I be correct in thinking your wife is ok with things as long as no one else finds out?

[zirconia]

Hi Billie

I'm glad you found the suggestion helpful.

Zirconia, would you mind telling me a little about your situation?

No, I don't mind, although it's a bit hard to define. I recall telling someone else right after I joined the board, so if anyone read that post this may be just a rehash. Still, things seem a bit more clear to me now so here goes.

I'd probably have transitioned early had I lived in more adverse circumstances. As it was, I felt I had no reason to doubt my parents and other adults' wisdom and benevolence so I accepted their words as absolute truth even if what they said wasn't what I wanted or needed.

I now live in borderland. While I've never made any official announcements or even firm decisions, I've gradually metamorphosed over the years. New acquaintances tend to assume I'm female. Some later embarrassedly apologize for thinking of and treating me as such after they're told by someone else I'm not. When that happens I generally smile and say it's perfectly fine with me.

I expect I'd already have officially transitioned had I not got married. I probably will if/when I give up the wistful hope of some day having children of my own.

[Billie6]

Hi AnonyMs:
   I don't know what "binary trans" is (help). My wife would rather I not have breasts or gender Dysphoria. However she is a wonderful person and my best friend. She also knows about my childhood and what pushed me to gender confusion. I present as a male but can't seem to get the female side of me off my mind. I used to fight it due to religious, parental, and cultural values/pressures and I still keep it a secret from most people.
   How do you handle it after presenting as male for 9 years? Also, I forgot to respond or only partially responded to a couple of your posts to me. Re: your facial hair. I use "Me My Elos Pro Ultra" (500,000) pulses. My chest hair, stomach and under arm hair are gone. I just started on my facial hair. Even though it is not recommended for men to use on their faces because it may cause irregular growth patterns on the face, I checked with the manufacturer's rep, who was at Costco and he said he has known of lots of men trying it and it has worked on their facial hair. So I decided "what the Heck", I'll give it a try, which I have done for 6-8 weeks now (One treatment per week. My facial hair is lighter and I only have to shave every other day. I feel like it is working. It is taking longer than my chest, tummy and underarm hair. Hope this helps. If you want to give it a try, there are several merchants who sell it. I purchased mine from Amazon.

[Billie6]

Hi Zirconia:
   I think your description of "Borderland" fits me well. I don't look female but I have had several people say I look a lot younger than 66. I am guessing it is because I use Collagen, female HRT, and special lotion on my face. (I never have understood why men take a razor to their faces and then splash alcohol on the facial parts where they just used a razor  )
   I am truly sorry that you most likely will not be able to give birth to your own children but as a counselor/therapist, I know their are lots of people who can't have children and adopt. You don't rally have to give birth to be a mother. It appears to me that you have a kind and loving disposition and that you would/will make a great "mom."
   I just heard back from my GP and had no suggestions re: how to raise my temperature except for to bundle up. I wasn't impressed with that answer, so I have begun doing research on my own and I will find an endocrinologist who might be able to help. Thank you for your responses and sharing some of your Hx and philosophy in this area with me!!!!

[AnonyMs]

Binary means someone who identifies as either male or female. Its not about how you look, but your internal identity. Non-binary is here

https://www.susans.org/wiki/Non-binary

I don't seem to mind presenting male too much. I've no idea why. Its not ideal, but doesn't seem to cause me the problems that some experience.

If I wanted to get rid of my facial hair its easy enough to get laser here. There's there's plenty of commercial places that do it quite cheaply. I've got a fair bit of gray though so I'd need electrolysis as well unfortunately.

[Billie6]

Hi AnonyMs:
   I read the Non-binary information you recommended. Not sure that fits either. I definitely present and mostly identify as male with female breasts and I tuck and wear female under garments. One problem is my breasts are big enough that I am noticeable even with a loose fitting shirt/top. I would probably present a little more female but my circumstances and religious and small town conservative cultures won't permit it. I am making arrangements to find an endocrinologist who won't know me, which means i have to travel out of town.
   I very much appreciate the time and effort you spend responding to me and know that I sometimes come across as confused about labels/identity but that has been my reality for a long time. I am constantly trying to find a balance between being male and enjoying some of the benefits and comfort of being at least partially female.
  I do have a question. If I go back to the estradiol injections on a lowser dosage, could I use the containers they come in (weekly) but just take half a dose ( weekly) and store the remaining half in the syringe and use the other half next week ? I hope this is an okay question to ask since I left out the dosages.

[Billie6]

AnonyMs:
   I forgot to mention that Doctors tend to play it very safe, which is why I asked about saving half a dose until the next week)

[AnonyMs]

If you were free to do whatever you wanted would you transition to female, or just live as male with breasts? If you want to be female, then likely you'd be binary MTF. If you'd prefer to be somewhere in the middle between male and female then non-binary. Its not about what you look like, because we don't always have a choice in that, but how you want to be.

Personally I've been on a high level of HRT for years and have breasts (and a beard), but always present and live as male. I've even thought about having SRS surgery and continuing to live as male. Although I don't look it I'd prefer to transition to female so I identify as female (internally at least) and I'm binary MTF.

I don't know anything about injectable HRT as I've never used it.