Mtf transitioning. Anyone else sexual orientation change?

[RobynD]

I sort of bristle at the idea that there is something latent or repressed about it in all cases. There is really nothing scientific to point to that either. I understand the issue it creates with the larger issue of sexual preference but i have seen so many people recount a change that i sure would like to see it studied.

I've always been proudly bisexual but i went from probably a 65-35 orientation toward women, to perhaps 80-20 toward men and that change was dramatic. Not a feeling, not something that i finally felt ok with because i felt more than ok with it before. It is definitely evident in many facets of my life. Hormones? I have no idea, maybe a combination of hormones, socialization, the fact that men are interested in me and other factors such as a change in smell.

[kelly_aus]

I sort of bristle at the idea that there is something latent or repressed about it in all cases. There is really nothing scientific to point to that either. I understand the issue it creates with the larger issue of sexual preference but i have seen so many people recount a change that i sure would like to see it studied.

Take a look at history, take a look at what the Brit's forced upon Alan Turing and many other gay men. Many attempts were made to change sexual preference using sex hormones - it didn't work, only seemed to cause something not entirely unlike dysphoria.

[RobynD]

Take a look at history, take a look at what the Brit's forced upon Alan Turing and many other gay men. Many attempts were made to change sexual preference using sex hormones - it didn't work, only seemed to cause something not entirely unlike dysphoria.

I can totally see that yes, i imagine they tried to spike up T levels. However, transition is a fairly complex thing that and hormones are only a part of that.

[kelly_aus]

I can totally see that yes, i imagine they tried to spike up T levels. However, transition is a fairly complex thing that and hormones are only a part of that.

Actually, cross sex hormones were also tried in addition to T - note that giving a male exogenous T long term will result in that male ceasing to produce much of their own T. Gotta love a self-regulating system.

Transition is only really complicated from a psychological POV. The science behind hormonal reassignment is fairly well established and understood, if only doctors in practice would bother to learn. The surgical side of things is even more straight-forward.

[Annushka]

I wonder if it could also have something to do with the long-term introjection of binary notions and the idea that men and women complete each other. Given this reason, the sexual orientation shift could be a subconscious attempt to validate one's experience as a woman.

Other factor could be what RobynD mentioned about having men interested in you (very good contribution). We all like having people interested in us, to feel desired and attractive. It feels really good.
So maybe the shift towards men could also happen because men normally give much more this stimulation to girls' ego than women. This way, girls who have never felt this kind of attention before, start to feel really good about men, around men and with men.

What do you think? 

[pretty pauline]

I wonder if it could also have something to do with the long-term introjection of binary notions and the idea that men and women complete each other. Given this reason, the sexual orientation shift could be a subconscious attempt to validate one's experience as a woman.

Other factor could be what RobynD mentioned about having men interested in you (very good contribution). We all like having people interested in us, to feel desired and attractive. It feels really good.
So maybe the shift towards men could also happen because men normally give much more this stimulation to girls' ego than women. This way, girls who have never felt this kind of attention before, start to feel really good about men, around men and with men.

What do you think? 

Some very good points, a man being very attentive and protective and insisting on paying for everything on the 1st date, being desired and making me feel attractive and special, it does have an effect, I remember a former boyfriend many years ago taking me out to dinner and paying for everything on that 1st date, it's only right a guy pays for everything on the 1st date, when we came out of the restuarant it was raining, he insisted on me waiting in the lounge in case I got wet and walking a distance in heels, he drove the car up to the door, the attention is very flattering and does feel good, validation as a woman from a man, you'll never get that from another woman.

[kelly_aus]

Some very good points, a man being very attentive and protective and insisting on paying for everything on the 1st date, being desired and making me feel attractive and special, it does have an effect, I remember a former boyfriend many years ago taking me out to dinner and paying for everything on that 1st date, it's only right a guy pays for everything on the 1st date, when we came out of the restuarant it was raining, he insisted on me waiting in the lounge in case I got wet and walking a distance in heels, he drove the car up to the door, the attention is very flattering and does feel good, validation as a woman from a man, you'll never get that from another woman.

I don't need external validation, from a man or woman.. And why should he pay?

That said, this is a very hetero-normative comment.. Perhaps allowing for the fact some do get the validation they require from other women?

[HappyMoni]

I don't know Kelley, what you say is logical perhaps, but it doesn't cover the emotional side. After all, all the M to F folks here could wear nuns habits or ladies Quaker outfits for example. They are definitely women's clothes. It validates us emotionally to wear nice things. A dress, a sexy bathing suit, whatever. There is no shame in that just as there is no shame in emotionally enjoying the special attention from a guy that was  previously out of bounds  for us. I like attention from other people. It's just that attention from woman is not a new thing to me. Being treated differently, hetero normatively by a guy is different from my previous experience. It is validating because it is proof that things are different for me. As for who pays, that is up to the individuals.
Moni

[Roll]

I don't need external validation, from a man or woman.. And why should he pay?

Forget validation, I just want a free meal.

[pretty pauline]

I don't need external validation, from a man or woman.. And why should he pay?

That said, this is a very hetero-normative comment.. Perhaps allowing for the fact some do get the validation they require from other women?

We know what we are ourselves, but sometimes external validation is a real boost for self confidence, it was for mine, men giving me male attention and making me feel feminine gave me self confidence as a woman.
Why should he pay, I don't know the norms in the US, but where I come from it's traditional and always has been the norm, the guy always pays for everything on the 1st date, it's a guy's invitation to a woman, then the woman accepts or declines, then if dating continues well it should be 50/50.
As I said when on a first date with my boyfriend he paid for everything, if I offered to pay some, he would feel insulted, a woman paying on a 1st date is definitely no, all a woman is expected to do is make an effort, dress up, glam up, and try and look dazzlingly gorgeous and that's expensive, that's all a guy wants.
It's a great feeling, it's not just about a free meal or free cocktails, but being treated, respected and accepted as a woman by a man, but I never expected to actually married a man, but that's what happened, I never saw that coming.

[kelly_aus]

We know what we are ourselves, but sometimes external validation is a real boost for self confidence, it was for mine, men giving me male attention and making me feel feminine gave me self confidence as a woman.
Why should he pay, I don't know the norms in the US, but where I come from it's traditional and always has been the norm, the guy always pays for everything on the 1st date, it's a guy's invitation to a woman, then the woman accepts or declines, then if dating continues well it should be 50/50.
As I said when on a first date with my boyfriend he paid for everything, if I offered to pay some, he would feel insulted, a woman paying on a 1st date is definitely no, all a woman is expected to do is make an effort, dress up, glam up, and try and look dazzlingly gorgeous and that's expensive, that's all a guy wants.
It's a great feeling, it's not just about a free meal or free cocktails, but being treated, respected and accepted as a woman by a man, but I never expected to actually married a man, but that's what happened, I never saw that coming.

Thank you for putting feminism back 20 years.. And for dating men that let you.

[Faith]

Thank you for putting feminism back 20 years.. And for dating men that let you.

Thats very harsh and judgmental,

/thanks for that/end sarcasm

[Roll]

Thank you for putting feminism back 20 years.. And for dating men that let you.

Part of feminism is for everyone to be able to make their own choices, even if they aren't based on modern politically correct sensibilities. If having someone's dinner paid for while they look pretty is how they chose to embrace their femininity, then that is their right. Expectations to conform to modern political correctness are no less restrictive than expectations to conform to tradition.

[DawnOday]

Some men smell stronger than others,

My son is smelly but I tell him to put his shoes back on and the smell goes away. Strange how that happens.

[Annushka]

I don't need external validation, from a man or woman.. And why should he pay?

That said, this is a very hetero-normative comment.. Perhaps allowing for the fact some do get the validation they require from other women?

Hey Kelly. You were right on your comments.
It is indeed an hetero-normative comment; but so what? You have your opinion, she has hers and everybody is happy just the way it is. Trying to impose one's view against hetero-normatives has the same value as doing the opposite.

And you are right again. Most of us get some degree of validation from women, but unless it is a women completely out of social and cultural behaviors, she won't give the same kind of attention than men normally do.
I am totally into girls, but I can assure you that.

By the way, YOU don't need external validation. Most of people do. Others don't really need, but enjoy it.

Thank you for putting feminism back 20 years.. And for dating men that let you.

Feminism as I understand (and somebody please counter me if you think I am wrong) is not about rejecting all established cultural traits, but rejecting paternalism oppression.
What if the wants to pay not because he feels she is weak, but because he does it to to be nice, the same way as he could do it for a male friend? And of course it feels great!! I love when my friends (male, female, queer or whatever) pay me stuff. And I also love to pay then when I feel like.

I am totally against machism, but in my opinion a kind gesture like that, by itself, doesn't qualify as a sexist behavior. May be a blink of a yellow sign perhaps, but nothing more...

Part of feminism is for everyone to be able to make their own choices, even if they aren't based on modern politically correct sensibilities. If having someone's dinner paid for while they look pretty is how they chose to embrace their femininity, then that is their right. Expectations to conform to modern political correctness are no less restrictive than expectations to conform to tradition.

That's the spirit!! Way to go girl!! 

[HappyMoni]

Maybe I'm grumpy tonight cause I feel like crap. This is the second chat I've read today were people are taking the low road. There is nothing wrong with just saying, "I disagree, respectfully." Then, "Have a nice day."
Moni
Have a nice day.

[RobynD]

I'm a feminist and in my view it is plain and simple advocation of equality in all areas. Having said that, we all need validations and they vary by individual. I wouldn't let a 1st date pay for a meal but that is for my own reasons. Holding doors and car doors and other politeness, i sort of like.

The key is the motivation of the other party. Does your date share your same values or does he see you as someone weaker. Are the doing it because they like you or are they doing it because they feel obligated or they are trying to manipulate you. You'll find out soon enough. He should be asking himself the same sort of questions about me.

I'm sort of the intimate initiator much of the time with my boyfriend and even more so when we first started. Consent was extremely important to me, so i'd ask to kiss him or touch him in more intimate places. Many people would recoil at this perhaps and feel the person is "not really into you" etc. But he let me know early on that he preferred that. Now as we have become closer, that all has become more casual. The key is everyone has different preferences, different levels of attraction, likes and deal breakers and sexual preference is a spectrum itself.

[Julia1996]

My orientation didn't change.  I was into males only before transition and I still am. I don't I don't share many feminist views. My boyfriend has always paid for everything when we go out. I have my own money but if he prefers to pay then what's wrong with that? And he prefers to drive when we go somewhere because he thinks it's weird for a woman to drive a man around unless he's like sick or something
Fine with me. I totally hate traffic and usually get a sore throat from yelling at people who are too stupid to walk, much less drive a car. And I am sure I will get flamed for saying this, but I do need validation from men. It's important to me to be attractive to men. Sorry if that makes me like weird or something.

[Angela Drakken]

My sexuality hasnt changed. I'm in a monogamous relationship with another woman who I love and she still loves me. She does worry one day I'll spring another surprise on her in that she believes me to be bisexual or, worse still, hetero and in the closet..

Le sigh

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

[Justarandomname]

I apologize as I am not writing this to offend but the change in sexuality narrative idea really bothers me. 

This is because if attraction changes along with hormone replacement, that would mean that attraction and sexuality is a fluid construct (the idea of gay people choosing their sexuality) and would give conversion therapy credence, such as giving testosterone to gay men or estrogen to lesbians would turn them straight.  (I know this isn't a perfect example of what I am trying to convey)

I understand it is common to question your sexuality when starting a transition due to all the new experiences and confusion that comes with it along with a host of other feelings and whatnot.  I questioned it myself for a brief period early in my transition but realized that it seemed more like "If I was attracted to men, it would give me more validity and credence to my own transition" and I realized I am still not attracted to men. 

I guess my thing is this, if you are now truly attracted to "x" gender, maybe you always were but never gave yourself permission to do so.