Phytoestrogens

[C. Raine]

I made the mistake of buying a milk thistle supplement thinking it would help promote healthy liver enzimes. After the second week of taking it I started to hold a huge amount of water in my legs which worried me intensely and I began going over everything I had consumed and or taken. So when I searched for the effects of milk thistle in individuals taking estrogen treatment I was surprised to find out that milk thistle was phytoestrogenic and would steal the estrogen receptors away from the estrogen treatment. So I immediately stopped taking the milk thistle and the fluid retention went away. Although I am bipolar and have adhd and stopped my treatment with snri's but am worried about most supplements now due to ingredients possibly containing phytoestrogens. I want to start taking a nootropic supplement but am weary due to this problem anyone else had any problems with this issue? Or could recommend a nootropic supplement that doesn't contain phytoestrogens?

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[C. Raine]

I made the mistake of buying a milk thistle supplement thinking it would help promote healthy liver enzimes. After the second week of taking it I started to hold a huge amount of water in my legs which worried me intensely and I began going over everything I had consumed and or taken. So when I searched for the effects of milk thistle in individuals taking estrogen treatment I was surprised to find out that milk thistle was phytoestrogenic and would steal the estrogen receptors away from the estrogen treatment. So I immediately stopped taking the milk thistle and the fluid retention went away. Although I am bipolar and have adhd and stopped my treatment with snri's but am worried about most supplements now due to ingredients possibly containing phytoestrogens. I want to start taking a nootropic supplement but am weary due to this problem anyone else had any problems with this issue? Or could recommend a nootropic supplement that doesn't contain phytoestrogens?

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So I'm guessing that Im either really boring or no one really knows? I guess I should just talk to someone at the store? Although they might tell me anything just to sell their products... I really dont want to take aderall because of cardiovascular health effects... So im just leaving gnc and I've bought huperzine a which is phytoestrogenic but only in mcgs. Magnesium, L-Tyrosine, Choline... So i'm really hoping they all work to help me pay attention and not screw up my hrt or fill my legs with water... Anyone interested I will keep posting updates.

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[extraaction]

Phytoestrogens are present in almost all plant based foods and drinks.  Pair that with xenoestrogens in the water supply, contaminating food, in the air we breathe and in a myriad of personal care products like toothpaste, lotion, and body wash and you'll see that your estrogen receptors are facing a constant onslaught.  Bearing that in mind,  the phytoestrogens in milk thistle are negligible....and milk thistle is amazing for the liver.  I would recommend continuing to take it.  That is only my opinion however...

[C. Raine]

Phytoestrogens are present in almost all plant based foods and drinks.  Pair that with xenoestrogens in the water supply, contaminating food, in the air we breathe and in a myriad of personal care products like toothpaste, lotion, and body wash and you'll see that your estrogen receptors are facing a constant onslaught.  Bearing that in mind,  the phytoestrogens in milk thistle are negligible....and milk thistle is amazing for the liver.  I would recommend continuing to take it.  That is only my opinion however...

Before and during milk thistle...

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[Deborah]

Creatine is supposed to improve brain function alongside its primary use of providing muscle cells with the precursors for energy production.


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[extraaction]

Before and during milk thistle...

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Could the milk thistle you are taking impure?  I know where I live supplements aren't really regulated......many times pills say ginkgo on the label but don't actually contain ginkgo, and may contain unlabeled and/or dangerous other products.  The way things are now, it's all a company by company basis.

I'm very familiar with taking milk thistle regularly as well as several clients of mine.  While it's completely within the realm of possibility, in my experience I've never witnessed this as a side effect of milk thistle.

As for nootropics, have you tried dimethylaminoethanol?  I was pretty pleased with it when I tried it

[Paige]

I made the mistake of buying a milk thistle supplement thinking it would help promote healthy liver enzimes.

Hi C.Raine,

Is there a particular reason your worried about your liver enzymes?

Paige 😊

[C. Raine]

Hi C.Raine,

Is there a particular reason your worried about your liver enzymes?

Paige [emoji4]

Yeah because I used to shoot huge amounts of testosterone to try to fight my inner feelings...(which of course didn't work lol...) As well as several suicide attempts on ridiculous numbers of psych meds... So I'm frequently asking my gp to monitor my kidneys and liver since their always having my bloodwork done anyhow. So far no problems, kidney function and liver enzymes have been good and consistent. But I have ptsd and part of mine is having anxiety and being too paranoid so I worry about it. I've actually apologized to my whole body on several occasions for the self desruction I've caused. Only trying to achieve harmony between mind, body and soul.

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[C. Raine]

Could the milk thistle you are taking impure?  I know where I live supplements aren't really regulated......many times pills say ginkgo on the label but don't actually contain ginkgo, and may contain unlabeled and/or dangerous other products.  The way things are now, it's all a company by company basis.

I'm very familiar with taking milk thistle regularly as well as several clients of mine.  While it's completely within the realm of possibility, in my experience I've never witnessed this as a side effect of milk thistle.

As for nootropics, have you tried dimethylaminoethanol?  I was pretty pleased with it when I tried it

Ya at first I didn't know it was the milk thistle. But that had been the only thing I had started taking and the rate of water was staggeringly increasing. I thought about going to the e.r. but instead did a search for interactiond between estradiol and milk thistle and there was a specific interaction that occurs in women taking estradiol if I could find the article online I'd post a link because its something my gp had no idea about either and I do go to Fenway in Boston she is a harvard medical graduate. This isn't the article but is still valid to my point that the phytoestrogen is stronger at grabbing estrogen receptors therby causing excess estrogen.  Milk thistle Test-tube studies suggested that milk thistle may inhibit certain enzymes (cytochrome P450) in the liver that break down some drugs and supplements, which could lead to higher blood levels of these substances and increased side effects.  However, this hasn't happened in more recent clinical studies.  Milk thistle Test-tube studies suggested that milk thistle may inhibit certain enzymes (cytochrome P450) in the liver that break down some drugs and supplements, which could lead to higher blood levels of these substances and increased side effects.  However, this hasn't happened in more recent clinical studies. [xxxii]

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[extraaction]

Ya at first I didn't know it was the milk thistle. But that had been the only thing I had started taking and the rate of water was staggeringly increasing. I thought about going to the e.r. but instead did a search for interactiond between estradiol and milk thistle and there was a specific interaction that occurs in women taking estradiol if I could find the article online I'd post a link because its something my gp had no idea about either and I do go to Fenway in Boston she is a harvard medical graduate. This isn't the article but is still valid to my point that the phytoestrogen is stronger at grabbing estrogen receptors therby causing excess estrogen.  Milk thistle Test-tube studies suggested that milk thistle may inhibit certain enzymes (cytochrome P450) in the liver that break down some drugs and supplements, which could lead to higher blood levels of these substances and increased side effects.  However, this hasn't happened in more recent clinical studies.  Milk thistle Test-tube studies suggested that milk thistle may inhibit certain enzymes (cytochrome P450) in the liver that break down some drugs and supplements, which could lead to higher blood levels of these substances and increased side effects.  However, this hasn't happened in more recent clinical studies. [xxxii]

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Im just sorry to hear that the milk thistle didn't work out for you.  I think most people, especially those taking hormones or drugs daily could add years to their lives.  I do pretty frequent (badly needed) liver dexoxes with milk thistle, and I would be devestated  if I found I couldn't use it any longer

[C. Raine]

Im just sorry to hear that the milk thistle didn't work out for you.  I think most people, especially those taking hormones or drugs daily could add years to their lives.  I do pretty frequent (badly needed) liver dexoxes with milk thistle, and I would be devestated  if I found I couldn't use it any longer

Im sorry to hear that. What brand if you dont mind me asking are you taking? I believe I was using Nature's Bounty. Thanks for your info and sharing your take on it! Very appreciated! C. Raine

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[extraaction]

Im sorry to hear that. What brand if you dont mind me asking are you taking? I believe I was using Nature's Bounty. Thanks for your info and sharing your take on it! Very appreciated! C. Raine

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Ive used spring valley before with decent luck.  The last brand I used was something else but I dont have the bottle....I gave the rest of it to an elderly patient of mine that I am treating for breast cancer.....it is making the spots in her liver go away.  I will ask later when i see her which brand...

But I am getting fed up with differing qualities of supplements so I just purchased a capsule machine so I can make my own from powdered herbs.  Its easier to judge quality on loose herbs

[C. Raine]

Ive used spring valley before with decent luck.  The last brand I used was something else but I dont have the bottle....I gave the rest of it to an elderly patient of mine that I am treating for breast cancer.....it is making the spots in her liver go away.  I will ask later when i see her which brand...

But I am getting fed up with differing qualities of supplements so I just purchased a capsule machine so I can make my own from powdered herbs.  Its easier to judge quality on loose herbs

Thats incredible I've always wanted to get into botany and grow herbs and spices for health and food and take it further like really deep into the chemicals and what each does and actually put out a really good brand of natural supplements. So Im certainly interested in what you have to say. Your idea is wonderful and I wish you the best in capsulating clean herbs and plants and the healthy components associated with! Please let me know when your personal supplements are ready I'd like to be able to see the whole process but I know thats asking a bit much... but I'm truly and wonderfully amazed by the healing plants the Earth grows and the lack of quality by some of these top name brands which still aren't approved by the FDA. All my best sincerity, C.Raine

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[extraaction]

Thats incredible I've always wanted to get into botany and grow herbs and spices for health and food and take it further like really deep into the chemicals and what each does and actually put out a really good brand of natural supplements. So Im certainly interested in what you have to say. Your idea is wonderful and I wish you the best in capsulating clean herbs and plants and the healthy components associated with! Please let me know when your personal supplements are ready I'd like to be able to see the whole process but I know thats asking a bit much... but I'm truly and wonderfully amazed by the healing plants the Earth grows and the lack of quality by some of these top name brands which still aren't approved by the FDA. All my best sincerity, C.Raine

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Thats not too much to ask...I will absolutely let you know and give a demonstration with pictures.  If you are interested I can work on sharing some of the trade secrets Ive learned, give you a shortcut to learning it all in books and classrooms.  Also if you want, if intetested if you find herbs you want I could capsulize them for you at very little cost (basically just to cover shipping/material).  If you want.  I like helping other herbalists to learn and access higher quality supplements

[C. Raine]

Thats not too much to ask...I will absolutely let you know and give a demonstration with pictures.  If you are interested I can work on sharing some of the trade secrets Ive learned, give you a shortcut to learning it all in books and classrooms.  Also if you want, if intetested if you find herbs you want I could capsulize them for you at very little cost (basically just to cover shipping/material).  If you want.  I like helping other herbalists to learn and access higher quality supplements

Omgosh yasss that's incredibly awesome! thank you sooo much for the offer I will certaily take you up on that! Thank you again so awesomely awesome!

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[extraaction]

Omgosh yasss that's incredibly awesome! thank you sooo much for the offer I will certaily take you up on that! Thank you again so awesomely awesome!

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awesome.  I believe in the free exchange of this kind of information amongst likeminded folks.  The world needs more independent street medics.

currently I am banned from PMing on this site for 5 days.  Go ahead and contact me at bathtub.alchemist@gmail.com, my public email and we'll delve deeper into this than we ought to on here....nobody's going to want to watch our miniclasses on herbs, their chemical components and their  use in various therapies