Does starting HRT MTF make you muscles go away?

[Lexi Nexi]

I am male right now. My body doesn't make test(none at all) so I have to give my self shots. I had an accident that reduced my height and my weight from muscle atrophied  as I recovered. I went from 185 pre accident to 125 pounds

While recovering 1 year ago I decided to double my T (This was before I realized I was trans and wanted to transition: which I decided this month).
And in 6 weeks I had lost my body fat and gained muscle mass to 165 in my legs and arms. My waist shrank down.

Now I want to go back to being 125. I stopped taking my test 1 month ago (kind of dangerous but I see the doctor soon and I want a base line before HRT so I dont have to take blockers)

Will going on estrogen make my muscles go away? The plus is I have really shapely near perfect girly legs but I wish they were soft not hard. I also don't like the arm muscles. The muscle gain came from doing absolutely no exercising I would lay in bed all day with pain as far from the gym as possible.

I reduced my calories to 1 meal a day and my waist is really small like my male underware falls off but the muscles wont go away.

I used to do  a lot of weight lifting before my accident.

The accident shank me from 5'7.5" to 5'2" which I hated at the time but now thats that ideal height if I want to transition. So a terrible thing Is actually an awesome thing. But I want to weigh 125 again. I have very little fat to lose.

[Deborah]

If you remove testosterone and don't exercise your muscles will atrophy and get smaller.  Adding estrogen helps preserve muscle, but not as much as testosterone.


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[Lexi Nexi]

If you remove testosterone and don't exercise your muscles will atrophy and get smaller.  Adding estrogen helps preserve muscle, but not as much as testosterone.


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Estrogen preserves muscle? I spent my whole life trying to gain muscles now I dont want them.

[Deborah]

Estrogen preserves muscle? I spent my whole life trying to gain muscles now I dont want them.

"Estrogen Can Build Muscle
I'm totally serious, it can and here's how.  There are 2 estrogen receptors: ER-alpha and ER-beta.  After muscle damaging, exercise rats were injected with estradiol. I am shocked to report that satellite cells were recruited upon ER-alpha binding and IGF-1 levels increased after ER-beta binding.  This means estrogen acts on its own receptor in tandem with testosterone to synergistically facilitate cell growth and splitting. In other words, estrogen gets you more muscle cells and makes the ones you have bigger."
https://toddleemd.com/2015/08/26/estrogen-builds-muscle/


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[Dani]

With long term use, Testosterone will build much more muscle than Estradiol.

While the above quoted report is interesting, it does not change the fact that many of us MTF on Estradiol will lose muscle mass and develop a longer leaner female physique. This happened to me and my experience is not unique. Many other MTF also report the same thing.

[Drexy/Drex]

Oooh thats interesting ...i want to build my legs up again😊

[Lexi Nexi]

"Estrogen Can Build Muscle
I'm totally serious, it can and here's how.  There are 2 estrogen receptors: ER-alpha and ER-beta.  After muscle damaging, exercise rats were injected with estradiol. I am shocked to report that satellite cells were recruited upon ER-alpha binding and IGF-1 levels increased after ER-beta binding.  This means estrogen acts on its own receptor in tandem with testosterone to synergistically facilitate cell growth and splitting. In other words, estrogen gets you more muscle cells and makes the ones you have bigger."
https://toddleemd.com/2015/08/26/estrogen-builds-muscle/


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I wonder if that's just a special case. Women make testosterone at about 40-60 (forget the units) while men make 400-800. Testosterone is key in making things like cholesterol and many other hormones. I wonder if a person on just test blocker vs test blockers and est. which one would gain lose muscle. Is anyone on just estrogen?

Also what does the doctor give you is it a pill you take daily or a shot? Does one work "better"/ differently?

I'm wondering what it's going to do to my mind. I must admit I did like the way test felt at first. It made my gender dysphoria kind of go away for a little bit. 

[Deborah]

I wonder if that's just a special case. Women make testosterone at about 40-60 (forget the units) while men make 400-800. Testosterone is key in making things like cholesterol and many other hormones. I wonder if a person on just test blocker vs test blockers and est. which one would gain lose muscle. Is anyone on just estrogen?

Also what does the doctor give you is it a pill you take daily or a shot? Does one work "better"/ differently?

I'm wondering what it's going to do to my mind. I must admit I did like the way test felt at first. It made my gender dysphoria kind of go away for a little bit.

I don't know.  But I'm on a high dose of pills and blockers with undetectable testosterone and have had no problem building strength beyond what it was pre-HRT.  That said, as long as I did no strength training at all I did shrink.  But it's unknown how much of that was due to HRT and how much was due to 35 lbs of fat lost.  My best estimate is that around 10 to 12 lbs of lean mass was also lost during that time.

Right now with exercise my lean mass is greater than pre-HRT.  That includes everything from muscle to glycogen and water stored to increased blood volume from running.


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[KayXo]

Pre-HRT (before 2004), my arms were significantly stronger and I wasn't more active physically. The only difference is I had more T. So, for me, I attribute my loss of muscle mass and strength (in my arms) to less T since beginning HRT.

[Deborah]

Pre-HRT I was out of shape but I couldn't do any pull-ups and my pushups were reduced to around 10.  My T was 826 ng/dl. Now with 2+ years of HRT and T at <3 ng/dl I can do 3 pull-ups and 30 push-ups after lifting weights plus I can do at least a few curls with 45 lb dumbbells.

So my arms are stronger now than my out of shape pre-HRT although there were times before that when I was working out that my arms were somewhat stronger than now.

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[KayXo]

Just take one event. The 100 meter run. Women can and will never break men's world record and their times are, on average, slower than men's although all these individuals work out just as much. Less T makes a difference, in my book. Or else, women and men would compete together in such events.

[Deborah]

There is no doubt that T increases one's potential for muscle size and strength.  So if someone is working out and is well developed then they will lose strength and size on HRT.

My objection is the notion that the simple presence of T leads to such great size and strength that there is a lot to lose.  Most people don't work out.  Most people don't have a whole lot to lose because it is all undeveloped potential.

Just to take that one example, the 100 meter run.  The elite women you are speaking of who are in reach of world records all run faster than probably everyone on this forum whether before or after HRT.  Likewise, I seriously doubt that the person with the highest T level here is going to beat Paula Radcliffe running over any sort of distance.  Or I can point you to a 148 lb woman who can lift heavier weights than the vast majority of people here, me included, regardless of their T level.


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