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Doubts and fluctuations in gender

Started by mischief_brew, November 28, 2017, 06:37:49 AM

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mischief_brew

(Oh look! It's the big bad doubt monster!)

Sorry. Ok, so I've been feeling like I had everything pretty worked out for a good 6 months now at least... Non binary trans masculine/sometimes more andro but meandering around that general area at least. I received my GIC letter a while back, have been researching private to possibly speed up getting on hormones. But recently I've been having the odd femme attack. I can only explain it like grief? I start dwelling on how I used to be as a late teenager (long hair, make up, the usual female trappings) and over romanticising it. This is usually after a chat with my dear mother or a considerate friend, who usually is cis. I start thinking that going down what looks like a non binary ftm path is just me running away from my previous self and that as soon as I made any permanent changes I'd start getting opposite dysphoria (if that's a thing) and want to detransition back.

I must make it clear that I usually dwell on this for maybe an hour or so and then go back to thinking how much better I'd feel if I let myself go ahead with finding my non binary masc self and how much more able I'd be to engage with the things I want to do when I don't experience this constant dysphoria about being seen as female every time I go anywhere. Still, it feels pretty intense when it happens, and it leaves me with no self confidence about making decisions about my body.

I have also decided that I definitely want kids at some point (providing the right situation) and this has made me even more angsty about losing my female characteristics. I feel like literally everything would be easier if I kept this whole gender 'thing' to myself and put up and shut up with the body I have currently. At the same time, ever since I gave words to these thoughts about my gender, I haven't been able to ignore them and my life has literally paused for years. It's like I'm on hold and I have to pick a side. To transition or not. And although I technically mean only physically, because socially I have changed my name and I don't want to give up 'they' pronouns, to me it still means having to only think of myself as non binary but not express it outwardly. If that makes any sense? To know that I am, but to outwardly do the female thing and act like it's fine.

I have no idea if I've just written a load of rubbish and quite frankly I'm scared to post in case I offend anyone who isn't so flip flop-y with their identity, but I feel so lost and worried about the future. I think the time period that you have to wait before receiving any transition support really gives you a lot of space to start backtracking all the hard work that you made consolidating your thoughts and intentions :( I used to think that the long waiting lists were helpful so people weren't rushed into decisions and now I just think it's made me more confused than I ever have been about what I want. I can't go back to not feeling dysphoric all the time, but I'm scared I'm only going to swap one dysphoria for another if I move forward.

I hope I haven't offended anyone and if anyone has any advice or has felt/does feel similarly then I'd appreciate hearing from you.

Thanks in advance
  •  

Phoenix1742

Doubt is natural, and I sincerely doubt that anyone here will be offended by the fact that you just aren't sure.

Frankly, my guess is that most people here have had doubts. I know I have, and frankly I still struggle with exactly what it is that I'm going through. Sometimes I'm 100% "I'm trans, and that ultimately transition is what I need to do" and other times I think that if I did transition I'd regret it, and that I'm better off living as both. But then I start dreaming about that perfect female body, and just get pissed that I don't have a button I can push that would magically switch my body to match what I'm feeling.

But honestly, that's part of why I'm seeing a therapist, and part of why I'm here. Being able to talk with people that understand has been a huge help for me.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

  •  

Elis

Yeah feel similar. I now have dysphoria/discomfort about not being seen as nb and at how my body looks too masculine. But when I think back to how my brain didn't feel right pre T and how uncomfortable I felt when I looked and was referred to as female; i know T is the best compromise.

I felt that grief too. Didn't think others felt it. But soon went away a few months on T once the doubts and dysphoria went away. I can still have long hair and look fem whilst still looking male to others.
They/them pronouns preferred.



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mischief_brew

Thanks for the replies Phoenix and Elis :)

Phoenix - I can really relate to what you're saying about going from 100% sure to not wanting to commit either way, and then back again :P I'm glad you've got a counsellor to talk to about things. I think I need to find one but it's hard to find people that are good with trans issues. I'd like to be able to find more people to talk to about these things but apart from coming on here I don't really have that. I have some mtf friends who identify non binary but no one who is coming at things from the same direction as me, and I don't necessarily feel able to talk about the male-specific aspects of my identity with them...

Elis - It must be strange having people assume you're male as opposed to when they previously assumed you were female (and still be wrong but in a different way). I'm glad T has been worth it in many other ways though. I'm still not sure how I would deal with misgendering from the other perspective if/when I go on T. In my head though I think it would be less jarring than being called female? It's interesting that you also experienced the same feelings towards the idea of losing your female characteristics. Obviously expressing femininity is something that is open to all genders, so yay for that. Maybe it isn't losing femininity I'm scared of, rather losing my cis-ness?? Does that make sense? Internalised transphobia for the win.

  •  

Phoenix1742

Well, if you're ever in Baltimore, I can recommend a good therapist. :-)

Although it does make me realize how lucky I am living where I do - I could Google "Baltimore therapist transgender" and get a dozen options within a half hour drive. I remember how hard it was when I lived in Connecticut - especially back in the dark ages before internet - and it was just impossible to get the resources you needed.

But until you do find a good therapist, we're always here to lend an ear.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

  •  

Daisy Jane

Even after 18 months on hormones, I occasionally have a bout of "what if this was all a huge mistake" it passes.

By the way, Mischief Brew is fantastic!
  •  

PurpleWolf


Quote from: mischief_brew on November 29, 2017, 10:28:02 AM
Maybe it isn't losing femininity I'm scared of, rather losing my cis-ness?? Does that make sense? Internalised transphobia for the win.

This!

Just signed in on this forum myself - and can relate to many things you said!!!

Quote from: mischief_brew on November 28, 2017, 06:37:49 AM
But recently I've been having the odd femme attack. I can only explain it like grief? I start dwelling on how I used to be as a late teenager (long hair, make up, the usual female trappings) and over romanticising it.
If this helps at all, I socially transitioned at 13 and been living as male ever since - but was unable to medically transition... And am now in a turning point in my life on whether to go on T or not. And even I get that!!! The last time I was living as a femme female was when I was 12.....! But in odd moments I have these romanticising attacks too: Did I miss something when I didn't ever present as a girl while in my teens? What if I had made a good-looking female etc. insane stuff... ;D I feel terrible being seen as female. Always have. But I STILL GET THOSE!!! Increasingly today - as I'm contemplating really, FINALLY, starting T.

Quote from: mischief_brew on November 28, 2017, 06:37:49 AM
I start thinking that going down what looks like a non binary ftm path is just me running away from my previous self and that as soon as I made any permanent changes I'd start getting opposite dysphoria (if that's a thing) and want to detransition back.
Hearing all that actually makes me feel SO MUCH better  ;D ;D ;D!!!
Guess how many times I've been fearing that had I been born physically a boy - what if I wanted to transition into a woman, then?! You see... I'm borderline non-binary... though I'm actually not, coz always felt I'm male. But still. I'm not the most masculine dude out there!
So, I've been there too... many times... I'ts my biggest T-related fear actually: WHAT IF I don't like the changes & want to go back? And since many things are practically irreversible (like voice, clith growth, beard etc...) I couldn't be a woman if I ever wanted to.
Well, hope this makes you feel better. It makes me feel better, at least  :D! To hear I'm not that crazy thinking all that stuff...

Quote from: mischief_brew on November 28, 2017, 06:37:49 AM
I must make it clear that I usually dwell on this for maybe an hour or so and then go back to thinking how much better I'd feel if I let myself go ahead with finding my non binary masc self and how much more able I'd be to engage with the things I want to do when I don't experience this constant dysphoria about being seen as female every time I go anywhere. Still, it feels pretty intense when it happens, and it leaves me with no self confidence about making decisions about my body.
I so much can relate to that!!! I'm 1000% of the time absolutely convinced I'm a guy. And how I'd like to look ideally. So there's no reason for me to think I'd some day like to be a woman, right? But I still do get those attacks!!!
Mainly, I think, it's bcs I'm fearing the unknown... And I'm 'used' to this nasty state I am in.

I feel like - taking T is having some permanent effects on me & my body. Am I really sure I wanna do this to myself? How could I know it's right without trying??? Etc... And if, IF I ever wanted to be a woman again - I couldn't. Or at least couldn't go back to the state I used to be...

Which is pretty much f**ked up coz all I ever wanted is to be seen as a man! And I agonize over it EVERY SINGLE DAY. (That I'm not.) So there's no freakin' way I might wake up one day 10 years from now and think: "Wow! I so feel like a woman! I want to be seen as one now." But the fear of the unknown... yeah.

Quote from: mischief_brew on November 28, 2017, 06:37:49 AM
I have also decided that I definitely want kids at some point (providing the right situation) and this has made me even more angsty about losing my female characteristics. I feel like literally everything would be easier if I kept this whole gender 'thing' to myself and put up and shut up with the body I have currently.
Relate, relate, relate!
The last part especially. As for me, I don't think I want own kids... (though I really like kids in general), and couldn't imagine giving birth for example... BUT I've also thought that 'maybe I'm making a mistake here? Maybe I'd be better off being a nice woman complying with the society's expectations & reproduce - I like kids so much, don't I?!'

Btw if you want to have biological children somehow, remember you can always store eggs!!!

Quote from: mischief_brew on November 28, 2017, 06:37:49 AM
At the same time, ever since I gave words to these thoughts about my gender, I haven't been able to ignore them and my life has literally paused for years. It's like I'm on hold and I have to pick a side. To transition or not.
Double relate!!! EXACTLY how I feel right now. I feel like I'm in a turning point or crossroads in my life: And I have to pick a side whether I'll continue as a man or a woman from here on! [Though I identify as a man. And hate to be seen as a woman.]

Quote from: mischief_brew on November 28, 2017, 06:37:49 AM
And although I technically mean only physically, because socially I have changed my name and I don't want to give up 'they' pronouns, to me it still means having to only think of myself as non binary but not express it outwardly. If that makes any sense? To know that I am, but to outwardly do the female thing and act like it's fine.
Triple relate!!! Like I said - socially transitioned at 13... wanted to get on T at 16... couldn't... got depressed... I FEEL EXACTLY LIKE THAT!!!!! I feel I'm a man. I only wear male clothes. I go by a male name. I'm a husband/boyfriend. BUT the outside world absolutely sees me as a woman :OOOO!!!! So I feel like that too - that inside I know what I am (a man) - only no one else sees that. And that pains... Oh, it sucks so bad...

So, don't know if I was able to give you any advice here! But at least you know the things that go through your mind are normal...  ;)! Or at least I know now that the things that go through my mind are probably normal.
!!!REBIRTH=legal name change on Feb 16th 2018!!!
This is where life begins for me. It's a miracle I finally got it done.


My body is the home of my soul; not the other way around.

I'm more than anything an individual; I'm too complex to be put in any box.

- A social butterfly not living in social isolation anymore  ;D -
(Highly approachable but difficult to grasp)


The past is overrated - why stick with it when you are able to recreate yourself every day
  •  

PurpleWolf


Oh, there's one advice I can give you though:

I think it'd be best to just concentrate on the gender euphoria side, you know. The feeling you get when you are seen as 'yourself' - whatever that may be: non-binary, genderless... more masculine... a guy... etc.

Maybe it'd be best to just follow that as a lead! Your gut feeling.

The feeling you get when seen/treated as a woman? Cringe? Pain? Discomfort maybe?
:( >:( :-\ :embarrassed: :'(
The feeling you get when seen as a man/nb etc.? Euphoria? Ecstasy? Joy? Happiness?
:) ;) :D ;D >:-) :laugh: :angel:

Maybe we should disregard all else... And concentrate on what makes us happy, right?

If you know something makes you feel 'off' or 'bad' or 'unpleasent' that can't be good, right?
And if something makes you feel exhilarated, that can't be all bad, possibly, now can it? No way!
!!!REBIRTH=legal name change on Feb 16th 2018!!!
This is where life begins for me. It's a miracle I finally got it done.


My body is the home of my soul; not the other way around.

I'm more than anything an individual; I'm too complex to be put in any box.

- A social butterfly not living in social isolation anymore  ;D -
(Highly approachable but difficult to grasp)


The past is overrated - why stick with it when you are able to recreate yourself every day
  •  

Tessa James

I consider the non binary path to have far less defined edges and it often feels we are trail blazers here.  Another analogy is sitting on a fence and, even a cat can have trouble staying up top.

We have also know of folks here and IRL that experience the pendulum swings and the difficulties of being unsure and fluid.  When I first started transition my direction was much more binary and my clothing was skirts and dresses ONLY.  I tried the comportment and voice lessons and felt I was going from one stereotype to another.   I learned to relax and work toward a more personal and non binary transition and found greater freedom and latitude to simply be myself.

No obvious trail exists in these uncharted waters perhaps?
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
  •  

mischief_brew

I really don't log on here enough! Thanks for the responses Tessa James, Purple Wolf and Daisy Jane :)

I'm feeling very worn out by all this at the moment so I may have to gather my energy for a proper response but I appreciate your thoughts.

Daisy Jane - I guess doubts are something that everyone has from time to time... Mischief Brew are indeed awesome. They're one of my favourite bands :) I was gutted to hear about Erik last year. Worst news of 2016.

Purple Wolf - I'm glad that you could relate to a lot of the same things. It's good to know I'm not the only one even if it's still complicated and difficult. Good luck with starting T if you do... I think I've got a long waiting list unless I get private care sorted out... I like your advice to concentrate on what makes me feel happy rather than what causes distress. It's easy to get overwhelmed with doubt and dysphoria and lose a sense of direction and security about what you DO actually like or know about yourself.

Tessa - I think you're right that there is less of a clear path for nb people so that can make things feel more uncertain or difficult. It's easy to end up trying to look for other people to give you answers when ultimately only you can know what your feelings are, and what you need to do to feel like yourself. The problem for me is that my anxiety makes it hard to know what desires are my own and what I feel would make things easier for other people.





  •  

PurpleWolf

Hi!

I've been hanging around here quite a while now and I can tell you this:
This site & the support I've gotten here has reminded me of the gender euphoria I experience whenever I'm treated as a man. When you are not treated as yourself often, it can mess up your mind! Whatever that means to you (the way you want to be treated).

At least it reminded me how BADLY I want to be seen as a dude. So, I can emphasize that you should pay attention to your feelings first and foremost. They can be your guide.

Here is a link to my first thread where I asked about T - and got many very good answers.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,230592.0.html
You should go check that up!
What I've concluded from that one and generally after hanging around here, is, that honestly - if I want to be read as a man constantly/automatically, I need to start T.

Quote from: mischief_brew on December 13, 2017, 12:34:19 PM
It's easy to end up trying to look for other people to give you answers when ultimately only you can know what your feelings are, and what you need to do to feel like yourself. The problem for me is that my anxiety makes it hard to know what desires are my own and what I feel would make things easier for other people.
This! I also got a very good advice from Ryuichi, this:
Either way you decide, realize that NO ONE is pressing you to do what you don't want to do!  Take your time, do the research, ask questions, ask opinions, and do what's best for YOU, and no one else!

I have a little access problem myself... But I'm planning on starting the path to get T. If I'm completely honest with you, I still don't like the idea that I 'have' to get on T. I'd like to think I look 'male/guy enough' as I am and wouldn't need it. BUT: the truth is my life is miserable right now & I do want to be seen as a man, rather than a woman. And T will sort that out! Plus, as for me, I actually do want those changes that T can offer: more masculine face, being read as a guy all the time, more masculine body/frame, more masculine shoulder/hip ratio. But I still do not like the idea that I 'have to get on it' if you know what I mean!

But I've in this short period of time made peace with myself. And approach the future from a curious point of view, instead of anxious. This site has been a huge help! If you'd like to read my other posts, go ahead! I've found that hearing others have had exactly the same experiences has made me less anxious about this. I feel like I'm 'in good hands' here & can & do get support when I need it. I recommend the same to you, :)! Come to hang out in here more often!

I'm still a little concerned about the way my face will change (I like my face), the way my voice will drop (I'm okay with my voice plus sing) etc. But overall I'd like to be seen as a guy. And to that - T is like the magic solution, :)!

So hope this helped.

So, you need to concentrate on those things that make you happy. They come first. Then you need to make a decision on what you need to make you more happy. If you for example absolutely hate to be seen as a woman, for example, then T might do some good for ya  :laugh:! But hanging around on this forum is what I highly recommend.

I'm already at a point where I start to feel excited about the idea that I could actually start looking like a cis guy in the mirror  :laugh:! And actually start to have a body like that. Just being in here on this forum has gotten rid most of my internilized transphobia, panic & anxiety concerning that. Highly recommend  :laugh:!!!!!

Tip:  You can start by reading through my threads - they are plentiful  :laugh: - in the transsexual section! They might make you more relaxed as you hear that many people go through doubts etc. And we are after all just normal people  :laugh:!

I still don't like the idea of the acne part... etc. But I feel at peace right now. Plus I know it's not like I can get on T tomorrow, so knowing that might help as well. I mean, concentrate on the little steps that lead you there wherever you need to be. And it's not like I'm gonna grow a beard in a moment, either. Might take a year. Or two years. Or five! Or might happen never. So... you and your body have plenty of time to adjust to those changes,  ;).

For me it just comes down to the fact that I need to look more masculine & be read as a guy to be truly happy with myself. And with T I can achieve that. So I stopped being afraid,  ;).
!!!REBIRTH=legal name change on Feb 16th 2018!!!
This is where life begins for me. It's a miracle I finally got it done.


My body is the home of my soul; not the other way around.

I'm more than anything an individual; I'm too complex to be put in any box.

- A social butterfly not living in social isolation anymore  ;D -
(Highly approachable but difficult to grasp)


The past is overrated - why stick with it when you are able to recreate yourself every day
  •  

mischief_brew

Hey Purple Wolf,

Thanks for getting back to me again. I totally agree that communicating with people on here is a gender re-affirming experience, or gender euphoric as you put it. In my case, not that I am a 'guy' per se, but that I am not a woman. As in, the default response of people to me in 'real life' is to see me as female, whereas on an online forum there isn't that presumption. However when I go outside I always run up against the fact that people are seeing something that I just don't feel. In my mind's eye, I am male bodied, even if I see myself as having feminine aspects to my character or demeanour. I agree with you when you say that T is kinda a necessity if someone wants to be consistently read as male without having to make a hell of a lot of effort to 'pass'.

In my experience, I can spend hours agonising over what to wear or what hair cut to have, but the sad fact is that without hormones I have to curtail a lot of my natural expression to make it fit with a more stereotypical masculine image. I like playing with gender expression but I still want to be seen as male, and I think that is something that I need to reinforce in my head when I'm having doubts about T. Bottom line, regardless of how femme or masc I want to look, it is from the standpoint of being male and being perceived as male by others. I think I will always feel non binary to a certain extent, but I feel like I will experience less dysphoria if I can reach a more neutral/male appearance, since most of my discomfort is about being seen as female and I don't think I've felt as much discomfort from the idea of being seen as male (even if technically that would still be somewhat incorrect, given my non binary nature).

I do look back at my previous femininity and feel as if it was drag...which is weird, because at the time it felt somewhat performative, but not to such a massive extent. I felt like I was trying to fit into my gender role 'better' but I didn't realise that the reason I didn't feel like I fitted in was because no matter how I expressed femininity, I couldn't connect to being female. Does that make sense? And even when I showed masculinity, it was perceived as being 'butch' which annoyed me, and I didn't know why, because I've never been homophobic... I've always been aware of having an attraction to women, but being labelled as a lesbian due to embracing masculine expression always irked me. I didn't like people confusing my sexuality (although I'm more pan tbh) with my gender. I even tried to appear even more feminine when I was in any relationships with women, I think subconsiously because I didn't like people connecting my previous tomboyish-ness with being a lesbian.

I'll have a look at your threads in the other forum, thanks for the heads up!

I appreciate the support and I hope that you manage to find a way to get on T in the near future. It is such a pain that these things aren't more accessible to people.
  •  

Tessa James

What a gift to understand you two better.  I feel fortunate to have this forum and the real life interactions with folks at our Q Center where the trans support group is a comfortable mix of all genders.  I cannot say enough about the impact of changing my basic hormonal chemistry from T to E.  I had arrived at self acceptance prior to that and found the "performance" i was acting out trying to be masculine had become a huge weight.  I did not realize how much till i quit.

Living with E finally quieted the noise of gender dysphoria and urgency of a libido that felt animalistic.  My emotional world now feels like living in color after B & W tv with a depth I never knew before.  The trans men on T, I know, talk about feeling so much more at home too.

When T took over my life in puberty I got that acne and stupid bonners instead of the blossoming into womanhood I secretly and foolishly expected.  I only knew about the "change" and watched my older sister, who named me Tessa at age three, develop so enviously.  Yes, there was no sex education and no discussion about it back in 1962. ;)

I remain somewhat "obviously" transgender, as a non binary person who started transition at age 60 and sings in our choir as a tenor/bass.  We have other younger members who identify as trans masculine who have been on T and still exercise the freedom to wear make up, look "cute" or wear a skirt if they want to.  It can then be a challenge to get consistent male pronouns from the outside world that way and for me the reverse is true.  One guy stopped T but more have grown facial hair and love how they feel!

As non binary peeps we do challenge the dominant paradigms of gender identity and gender roles.  Appearance is too frequently a source of the purity tests and concepts of who is really transgender or transsexual for those less sure of themselves or seeking a clear formula or validation, perhaps?

I rather consider this journey a very personal transition with commonalities yes but with emphasis on becoming more true to ourselves.  Way back in college we heard about Maslow's hierarchy with self actualization a paramount place.  Feeling free and authentic with nothing to hide just rocks! ;D
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
  •  

PurpleWolf


I had to reply to you once again coz so many things you said resonated with me again  :D!

Quote from: mischief_brew on December 14, 2017, 05:06:50 AM
In my case, not that I am a 'guy' per se, but that I am not a woman. As in, the default response of people to me in 'real life' is to see me as female, whereas on an online forum there isn't that presumption.
Yeah. This is the reason I feel I can be 'myself' here & respected as such which feels HUGE. I don't socialize much with other people coz can't really bear the fact that they see me as female. And not even just that - I can't bear the fact that I look female to them.

Quote from: mischief_brew on December 14, 2017, 05:06:50 AM
However when I go outside I always run up against the fact that people are seeing something that I just don't feel. In my mind's eye, I am male bodied, even if I see myself as having feminine aspects to my character or demeanour.
I can relate to this so much! I wouldn't call myself 'feminine' coz that just doesn't apply to me at all.... or to my character. I don't even like to call myself 'fem' as in 'feminine guy' coz I'm really not that feminine at all! At least - not in a sense of what comes to my mind when I hear the word! But I guess I might be called 'fem' then - as what for my appearance goes. I use guyliner & would do much more which might be considered as having a 'fem' appearance - but have to tone it down as I'm pre-T...

Like my signature states - I'd like to think of myself as a person first and foremost, which means in practice I don't really like strict gender norms etc. I just wanna be me. And that's what's been confusing me: I really do feel like I'm a guy inside, 100%, nothing else. But I'm also not that conforming by character...

If you feel you are nb inside, having that contradiction of not being fully masculine but needing to be seen as somewhat male by others - I can see how that can be even more confusing to you as to me.

Quote from: mischief_brew on December 14, 2017, 05:06:50 AM
I agree with you when you say that T is kinda a necessity if someone wants to be consistently read as male without having to make a hell of a lot of effort to 'pass'.
Unfortunately, yes. I've come to that conclusion.

Quote from: mischief_brew on December 14, 2017, 05:06:50 AM
In my experience, I can spend hours agonising over what to wear or what hair cut to have, but the sad fact is that without hormones I have to curtail a lot of my natural expression to make it fit with a more stereotypical masculine image. I like playing with gender expression but I still want to be seen as male, and I think that is something that I need to reinforce in my head when I'm having doubts about T. Bottom line, regardless of how femme or masc I want to look, it is from the standpoint of being male and being perceived as male by others.
I like to play with gender expression too, to some extent. Which is pretty damn hard when the outside world already sees you as somewhat female - and when you add things like make-up to that - well, you can guess it just reinforces that image! I know exactly what you are talking about! Tbh I have to tone my appearance down a little. I consciously avoid some things that would make me scream even more female to others! This is one of the very strong points of why I need to be on T. With T - you can be as fem as you like & wear what you like (even a dress) and still be perceived as a guy by others!

Quote from: mischief_brew on December 14, 2017, 05:06:50 AM
I think I will always feel non binary to a certain extent, but I feel like I will experience less dysphoria if I can reach a more neutral/male appearance, since most of my discomfort is about being seen as female and I don't think I've felt as much discomfort from the idea of being seen as male (even if technically that would still be somewhat incorrect, given my non binary nature).
Yes, I've also heard from nb folks here that T to them is more of a compromise. You must remember that you are 100% allowed to still be just yourself, even on T. If you really feel uncomfrotable to be seen as female by others, then the other option of being seen as male instead might make you feel a lot better. But you can achieve your mental image easily: T makes you appear 'male-bodied' to the outside world - and then you can manifest through your gender expression that you are actually nb.

After all, being a fem female is pretty different to appear fem male. With T you can really rock the boat as you please - and still be seen as 'male-bodied'.

Quote from: mischief_brew on December 14, 2017, 05:06:50 AM
I do look back at my previous femininity and feel as if it was drag...which is weird, because at the time it felt somewhat performative, but not to such a massive extent. I felt like I was trying to fit into my gender role 'better' but I didn't realise that the reason I didn't feel like I fitted in was because no matter how I expressed femininity, I couldn't connect to being female. Does that make sense?
That makes perfect sense! Actually I made a conscious decision at around 12 to finally 'fit in with the girls' and started presenting really femme... Well, that lasted for about a year. After that I quickly started dressing more gender neutral/masculine & then socially transitioned at 13-14. After that I was forced to back being a girl at 14 - and felt like I was man in drag...

Quote from: mischief_brew on December 14, 2017, 05:06:50 AM
And even when I showed masculinity, it was perceived as being 'butch' which annoyed me, and I didn't know why, because I've never been homophobic... I've always been aware of having an attraction to women, but being labelled as a lesbian due to embracing masculine expression always irked me. I didn't like people confusing my sexuality (although I'm more pan tbh) with my gender. I even tried to appear even more feminine when I was in any relationships with women, I think subconsiously because I didn't like people connecting my previous tomboyish-ness with being a lesbian.
That makes even more sense!
The thing that irritates me most in the world is being seen as a lesbian. I have absolutely nothing against lesbians whatsoever - only that I'm a guy and not one myself,  ;). Nothing is more irritating to me. Nothing could be more wrong.
And I'm not even butch/tomboyish - I'm pretty fem (sorta). I'm pretty much the opposite of what a butch lesbian is. I'm a guy - not a woman. And my gender expression is not butch at all.
But I can relate 100%.........


Quote from: mischief_brew on December 14, 2017, 05:06:50 AM
I'll have a look at your threads in the other forum, thanks for the heads up!
You really should! And feel free to participate! Check the transsexual section plus FTM & MTF.

I also have a great suggestion to you:
I ordered this book which really helped me tremendously. I really recommend!
It only contains exercises to contemplate your gender with (it's not a read). It really helps you sort your thoughts about gender expression, your childhood, your feminine/masculine energy etc. This might be of tremendous help to you!

You and Your Gender Identity: A Guide to Discovery
by Dara Hoffman-Fox
https://www.amazon.com/You-Your-Gender-Identity-Discovery-ebook/dp/B01N80JO4W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1513283059&sr=8-1&keywords=dara+hoffman-fox

It's really, really good!!! 100% recommend. It's amazing. It's like gender therapy in a book.

Quote from: mischief_brew on December 14, 2017, 05:06:50 AM
I appreciate the support and I hope that you manage to find a way to get on T in the near future. It is such a pain that these things aren't more accessible to people.
Thanks  :)!

I'm glad I was able to help you!
!!!REBIRTH=legal name change on Feb 16th 2018!!!
This is where life begins for me. It's a miracle I finally got it done.


My body is the home of my soul; not the other way around.

I'm more than anything an individual; I'm too complex to be put in any box.

- A social butterfly not living in social isolation anymore  ;D -
(Highly approachable but difficult to grasp)


The past is overrated - why stick with it when you are able to recreate yourself every day
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