Quote from: Viktor on December 08, 2017, 10:33:53 AM
The reason I pulled you up there is because you were stating that a bunch of stuff absolutely does not happen in the animal kingdom as if you personally knew it was the case and were an animal psychic as well as some sort of biologist who had studied it. I figured that you didn't really care, and that you also had an agenda in your statement you were trying to put forward.
The truth is that we don't know exactly the nature of homosexual activity among animals, or the reasons for. We can only speculate and gather data at this point. You don't know, and I don't know. One day scientists might know.
Obviously human beings are more complex in behavior than animals, but they are still animals and they have all the basic animal wiring. Until we - who can talk and recognize ourselves in mirrors and self-aggrandize 'till the cows come home - can answer the question of precisely why we ourselves engage in hetero- or homo-sexual behavior, we can't make serious statements about why animals do it, can we. But the main pull up point was that quite a few species do engage in same sex relations, and it can't be assumed to be purely aggression or dominance based, given the observations.
Anyway, OT: I have heard of this no shave November but I'm not sure its purpose. Is it a charity thing? Or just an opportunity for men as a group to be able to not shave for a while and see how it looks?
Viktor all that I know is what I have witnessed in Coyotes, Bobcats, Mountain lions, Wolf packs and other animals that pack to hunt with the exception of feline species, pack up to hunt and have a hierarchy. The felines have a totally different approach than canines. Felines will kill and eat their young because they may see then as a potential threat toward mating. Fox species will too. All I know is only what I have seen. Yes I tried to do the whole man thing.
When I was 18 and 20 I spent winters in Northern Wyoming in what some would call line shack in the old west. It was a commercial cattle ranch more or less but still the same work and freezing your ass off and building fires in a wood burning heater. the wood was there, the food was there to last the whole winter and I brought all my girly stuff. Even toys.
Wyoming winters last a long time and I was alone most of the time so... Don't judge Wyoming by what happened in the 90s with they gay guy because you will find killers everywhere and that includes NYC and LA. I would have to ride everyday looking for cows and yes there were wolves in the area along with coyotes that would pack up to hunt bigger game. I was privy to a horse, snowmobile and three wheeler ATV. I drove there with my own horse and Jeep also my own guns too. So when the weather was nice I would ride my horse out to check if any cows were in the area. I have seen so many coyotes, wolf pack and even a couple of bears on my outings and I would watch them.
So I can take biology in a college course and be a full blown PHD holder in Biology but I saw it firsthand though. I have no idea what the wolves were thinking. Maybe they are horny but never ever saw the little "lipstick" thingy come out of the male wolves humping other males. All I really know is what I have witnessed. Now when it came March and April and the early part of May they didn't hump anymore for what I would say dominance but they would fight for their Hierarchy and mating rights. Even in may it is still cold up there and I have witnessed the mating habits too. Dogs get stuck while mating and even I know that being from the south and having dogs. Wolves are no different because one time and only one time I have seen two coyotes mating when a black bear walked up on them and they could not come apart. Both snarled and would have fought even though a few minutes before they were snarling and biting one another. The Black bear left and went on and ended up finding the
>-bleeped-< I left out for them.
But then again I don't have a PHD in Biology either but I have taken a some courses but I have no agenda to prove. Yet I do hold a degree in Psychology and will tell you right now that we do not need any kind of justification for what we do as humans. We are a species that is set apart from instincts of the animal kingdom. We know ourselves and whatever else including who we love and what who we feel attraction toward.
Viktor I am a trans woman and I feel attraction toward men. I don't need any excuse nor will I ever search for a reason outside of the human soul or spirit. If certain people or groups don't like it then they know what they can do and what they can kiss and my horse died from old age so I will saddle her up so they can ride her there.
So all I know is from what I have witnessed while sometimes carrying a "big stick that shot fire from the end" just in case but it is from first hand accounts. I have no agenda nor do I need funding by some political action group. I would love to see homosexual or trans gender species in the animal kingdom. But all I have seen is dominance and submissiveness. Now when a canid that is bottom gets a little hard and the 'lipstick comes out of the tube' for the one getting humped I may think different but I have never witnessed it personally. I have seen it come out of the dominate male though but that is just a reaction like being "drunk on power". But then again I don't know what a canine is thinking and PHDs in biology don't either.
Just be careful of science because scientists need funds from the governments in the way if grants. So the more you agree with a political party the more money you will receive when they are in power.
But there need not be any kind of justification for anything other than killing for self defense. We love who we love and we are who we are and Anthropology, Archeology and History has proven that humans can be trans or homosexuals by nature in some instances. Trying to explain the human mind with the animal's mind is sort of like taking away from the complexity of the human mind. It is no different than trying to compare human spirituality by religious doctrines.
So Viktor look past all of that that I laid out and just be you. Who cares? I do and you do and everyone else should too but the only person we matter too is our selves and that may sound selfish but not really. DNA is specific to a species. So we have about 93 percent the same DNA with Chimpanzees but we evolved and Chimps didn't.
What does that tell you? It tells me that humans are not Chimpanzees and somehow we have smart phones, the internet, learned how to rid and use horses, learned how to make fire from sticks and or rocks with a spark in a bundle of dried refuge. With all of that aside we learned how to make and internal combustion engine, harness the ages of our past and drill for it, learned how to be human, for some anyway. Now we know where we are in the Universe and can see the whole of the universe but I still think there is something we are missing though.
We know how to split atoms to release a great amount of energy to either power our cities or destroy others. We have been to the Moon and yes Chimps were sent into space but I don't agree with it because they had no choice. We as humans do.
So you see where I am coming from. Chimpanzees, our closest relative to the past, are sometimes cannibalistic. We are not except is some severe cases like the Donner Party in NV/CA. They did what they had to do to survive but I don't think anyone killed anyone except possibly for one that I heard of.
So Viktor don't worry about scientific facts. Get out and make your own mind up. It is so easy to listen to those that claim to know more but when you see things firsthand it ain't so easy anymore. Then you have to come to your own conclusions by what you witness. Take Climate Change for instance. I believe in it. Do I think mankind is causing it? Not so much because the climate has been much warmer and way more colder way before humans came about on the scene. Do I think mankind maybe influencing it one way or the other? Yes. But not enough to make as big a difference as Meteorologists and Climatologists are making it out to be.
So you really have to take everything into consideration like Climate Change. One thing I have never heard blamed for Climate Change is urban areas AKA big cities. This is another thing I have witnessed first hand while driving through Atlanta GA, Dallas TX, Houston TX and so on. How many big cities do we have in the United States? NYC, LA, NOLA, and on it goes. I went through Atlanta one winter and it was a little foggy on the eastern side and foggy on the western side but the closer I got to ATL the more it rained. It is the same with all big cities. So who is causing Global Climate Change? Those that live in the country that drive an F350 duelly or those that take busses everyday to work that live in an uptown Studio apartment claiming the world is going to end when ranchers drive their diesel pickups filled with hey to feed their horses. Can you really blame climate change on cow farts?
Why did I say all that? We tend to vote by what we believe and the more BS we are told and believe the more we will vote. Personally I believe everyone should let nature take back the cities and everyone should spread out evenly. Someone that is living in a space of 1000 square feet in an apartment for 2000 dollars per month, leave and go in lesser civilized areas.
I have been to LA, NYC Chicago, NO and other major cities and I feel more accepted by so called "dumb rednecks" than in these other areas that is non specific. Humanity is not limited by political beliefs, religious beliefs or even society itself. It is changing and we are evolving beyond that and the ones that don't evolve are the ones we have to fear. That is sociology. So Science seems to be a political arm for one party and Religion a political arm for the other side but humans are not political puppets just like humans are not religious puppets either.
You my dear are a human. I am too and I don't need an animal to justify who I am and what I am. I am just me Viktor. I will never use and excuse or anything else nor will I ever apologize unless I am wrong about something. I am nothing more than me and I am unique and sometimes even special. Hell we all are.
