Back again - now with 100% more fluidity

[BT04]

I don't remember what my old login was or what my username even was, so I just made a new account. It feels more appropriate this way, as I'm a completely different person than I was however many years ago I was active here.

This is sort of an introductory post, so apologies if it's not supposed to get its own thread.

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So hi, I'm pretty sure I'm genderfluid. I might be a transman, but there's a lot about being read as a woman that I don't want to give up. The clothes, for one thing. The lack of hair on my chinny-chin-chin. My... marriage as I know it.

3 years ago I had a complete hysterectomy, half for legitimate medical reasons and half for gender reasons (the gender reasons were what convinced my surgeon/oncologist to do it after I'd originally asked under the pretense of being a cis woman). I have never felt more at peace with my body in my entire life until I woke up after that surgery and knew I wouldn't have to think about my vagina ever again if I didn't want to. It had simply become an accessory, not something that demanded attention on a regular basis. (I mean, barring good hygiene.)

I thought I was cis again, and up until recently I moved away from my several years struggling with identifying as NB, wanting 'they' pronouns, all that jazz. The thing about all that is that I knew it was some kind of step in the right direction - moving away from cis-ness - but NB didn't pan out for me. I wound up more anxious and socially dysphoric than not, so I quit the whole gender thing and just... existed, come what may. The hysto - the bottom surgery - was beneficial for a lot of reasons: I didn't need to be on permanent birth control, ie hormone therapy, anymore. So I quit those. I also quit my antidepressants, and wound up discovering that the combination of the two had done something really quite insidious to my sense of self, and is a big reason I went through my whole NB phase to begin with. I thought I was ace and agender, which did a number on my marriage, but quitting the meds and getting the surgery allowed me to step back and see things much more clearly.

Turns out I have a very definite masculine side that was suppressed by the years of 24/7 birth control.

When I was in high school, before I ran into the medical problems that prompted my OBGYN to put me on hormones, I'd experienced this. I experienced it so regularly and so thoroughly that I gave my masculine self his own name, which is something I much later found out is very common among genderfluid folks who switch between two very disparate genders.

Since the surgery he's always sort of lurked just out of reach, not saying anything, not making a move. Then back in October I started an erotic roleplay with somebody online, wherein I play a big, tough, dominant bruiser of a man, and my partner plays a smarmy, excitable twink. Our characters and our writing styles have PERFECT chemistry, and so far we've written probably a combined 200k words. But it hit me that something was happening when I realized that I wasn't fantasizing about what it would be like to be on my character's receiving end, like I've typically done when playing a man... I was fantasizing about being him. Kind of a revelation.

I told my RP partner about it, who turned out to be a bi cisguy, and he thought it was really cool and pretty sexy to boot. I then proceeded to realize that I'd never thought I could be sexy to any other man while I'm in one of my hypermasculine moods - aka when I am definitively Male - and it was another revelation. A very cute guy had just socially and sexually rewarded me for being hypermasculine. That had never happened to me before in my life, and I'm thinking now that the social reward/punishment system we have for keeping genders homogeneous is what's kept me thinking that I couldn't be a man at least part of the time, let alone full-time.

Because when I'm in girlmode, I'm STILL masculine. The only things that separate me from being 'one of the guys' is the fact that I sit to pee and I wear women's clothing. Nothing else about me is coded female. Not the way I walk, the way I gesticulate, the way I talk - my cadence, my choice of words - not my hobbies nor my habits, not even the way I have sex. I get excited about torque wrenches and Tom Clancy books, for pity's sake lol. Being "manly" comes naturally - being a woman is something I had to consciously learn, and it hangs over me like a smoking habit.

I don't get rewarded for being hypermasculine while female-bodied; I've always been tolerated at best, or just seen as "quirky" and "silly". Though it's made easier by being attractive. (You can get away with a lot of things when you're attractive.)

Being rewarded for being hypermasculine felt amazing, though. My RP partner addressed me as male, treated me as male, and loved/ it when I'd tease him OOC like the stud I wanted to be. It was validating. It was hot. It felt holy >-bleeped-<, mind blown.

So here I am.

I'll probably go see a gender therapist after the holidays to help me sort through this stuff, though I think I have a good handle on it. (My problem is that I think I have a 'good handle' on most things. Until I don't.) There are times when I KNOW for a FACT that I could live the rest of my life as a man, and I'm this close to sending out the email to my parents telling them they've had a son all along. And then there are times when the idea makes me really nervous, because there are things I like about being female-bodied. In many ways, it's simply the devil I know, but it's also a devil I know I'd miss.

For one, the switches do happen, though they're pretty ill-defined because of just how masc my baseline is even in girlmode. I have to look to other, subtler cues to find out whether I'm a guy or a girl that day - which pair of pants I feel like wearing, whether my hips tend to want to be thrust forward or backward, if my voice is a little deeper than normal, whether I'm masturbating or not. (If I'm horny and it doesn't occur to me to take care of it, I think that might be a way for my body tell me it wants a dick.)

Right now, I'm taking things slowly. I'm not even sure I want to go on T, though it's likelier now than it was even when I was seriously in NB territory. I still have my ovaries, but I think I naturally produce more testosterone than the average ciswoman - it's one of the suspected culprits behind PCOS after all. I'm 100% against being held prisoner by prescriptions for the rest of my life (been there, did not like it), so if I did go on T it would be temporary. The question would be, then, if the permanent changes are the things I'd want vs the temporary ones - a deeper voice would be rad, but I'm iffy about facial hair and clitoral enlargement.

My hip to shoulder ratio is pretty darn masculine as-is, and I have little body fat to redistribute. My voice is also reasonably deep, though there's still no mistaking me for a man. (I have the vocal range, it seems, of Foreigner's lead Kelly Hansen lol). I also top off at just under 5'9", so my build can very easily go either way. I've passed before, I need to remind myself - just from wearing a well-arranged binder and choice clothes.

So I think my plan is to lie low. I've started exercising a lot (this seems to be boosting my natural T levels, no lie), and hope to have really nice back/shoulders/arms at some point. I also plan to get a packer and binder for those days when I do absolutely need to be 'sir'd - this will most likely happen at BDSM/queer gatherings. Sex-wise, I imagine I'll do just fine with a Feeldoe/Realdoe. Castor oil for filling out my eyebrows more. Singing in the car to keep my voice down.

Will I be stuck cross-dressing here and there for the rest of my life? I'm not sure. My husband and I decided long ago that we were life partners, no matter what. We have too many weird priorities and life goals we want to accomplish together, too many idiosyncrasies that have been nearly impossible to find in any other person, and we know without a shadow of a doubt that we want to grow old together. I told him that I want to be there, holding his hand in 40 years no matter what I look like. The sentiment was mutual. However, if I one day decided to up and pursue transition (if being read as male full-time is what was right for me), our relationship would obviously change. But we want each other to be happy and true to ourselves no matter what, and that comes first.

For now I'm going to dabble in being read male and see what that does for me. I'll also do the therapy, see what the professionals have to say.

So that's where I'm at right now. This man's a work-in-progress.

[BT04]

I'm getting my thoughts together in preparation for talking to a therapist, and in doing my endless hours of introspection I think I discovered something.

I think one of my biggest mental blocks to the idea of transition, even just going on T, is that I'm proud of my body for the first time in my life. It took me almost 30 years to get it through my thick head that I make a damn attractive woman, which is a hard-earned and bittersweet realization to come to. On the one hand, I spent my entire childhood being teased and called ugly by all and sundry. As an adult, I finally started getting attention - the ugly duckling had finally turned into a swan - but I didn't believe a word of it. It honestly took flirting and sleeping with other men (my husband and I are non-monogamous) for it to occur to me that I'm hot.

So I'm afraid to throw that away, I guess.

In the past year I've gotten used to the idea of being really physically attractive, even if its not as the gender I really want to be. It still means quite a bit to me. And then to go on HRT and potentially give up on that, start all over again as that ugly duckling I was stuck being for so many years? To not have my husband find me attractive anymore? The idea scares me.

On the other hand, I think my body would take to T really well and I'd probably make a damn hot guy too, even if I eventually stopped T when we decide to move from the city to someplace more rural. I've been thinking about the feasibility of still keeping most of my current wardrobe if I ever decided to transition - I'd still have my feminine days, after all.

It's just a matter of figuring out which side I want to approach this from. Would I be more comfortable being a crossdressing man or a crossdressing woman? The question of the year.

[VeronicaLynn]

Hi!

Why are you wanting to approach it as either a crossdressing man or woman?

It's totally OK to like some things that are considered masculine and some things that are feminine.

It's a bit more difficult when it comes to hormones, as you can't really mix and match the effects of those like you can clothes. It doesn't seem like you want most of the effects of T, what effects are you wanting? Can those be achieved by other means?

I'm AMAB, so the effects are different, but I so far have stayed off of HRT by doing things to otherwise feminize my body, like laser and electrolysis. I'm not sure I even want to change my body more than that, if you like your body, changing it might make you more dysphoric.

[BT04]

Hi!

Why are you wanting to approach it as either a crossdressing man or woman?

Because I feel - right now, at least  - that I'm some kind of genderfluid. So if I'm in a girl body and feeling manly, then I'll dress masculine and that'll be it. If I transition and wind up with a guy body, and I'm feeling more feminine, then I'll be a dude in a dress. It'll feel like crossdressing. Which isn't terrible per se, but obviously not ideal.

It's totally OK to like some things that are considered masculine and some things that are feminine.

For sure. But my challenge for the time being is to figure out if I'd rather 'be a dude in a dress' or a 'girl in a suit'. (Not that I'd ever wear a suit, but you hopefully get the idea.)

It's a bit more difficult when it comes to hormones, as you can't really mix and match the effects of those like you can clothes. It doesn't seem like you want most of the effects of T, what effects are you wanting? Can those be achieved by other means?

I'm AMAB, so the effects are different, but I so far have stayed off of HRT by doing things to otherwise feminize my body, like laser and electrolysis. I'm not sure I even want to change my body more than that, if you like your body, changing it might make you more dysphoric.

If I speak with a therapist and it turns out that T might be a good idea, I'd probably go on a lower dose to see how I felt mentally at first, and then up it. Maybe stop when I've achieved the results I wanted. Body fat distribution I'm fine with reverting once I've stopped, and the idea of hair bothers me less than when I first started thinking about it. I think I need to get a clearer idea of what 'being a man' really means to me and realize that a lot of what goes with testosterone can be good things on their own merits. I need to stop comparing the effects of T to the body I have right now.

I mean, I'm fine with my body. I don't hate it, I'm not ashamed of it, I think I look good. But there's that nagging feeling that I have the potential to look and feel better. I have a lot of psychosomatic quirks that may just be wiring, or may be deeply repressed dysphoria, I don't know. PIV sex, for instance, is not thrilling most of the time, and has gotten much less thrilling since my hysterectomy. My chest also has pretty much no sensitivity at all, so erotic touch there doesn't... do anything for me.

It's funny, I can just as easily imagine myself getting top surgery as I can imagine going on T. Losing the chest seems like less of a deal than growing a beard and dropping my voice, though. Maybe it's because I had the hysto already, and the idea of surgical alterations doesn't really scare me as much as it might for someone else.

But do I genuinely prefer the body I have now to the one I could have on T? Or am I just vain and sentimental, preferring to be attractive over being authentic? I think I just need time...

It's good to see that non-op and non-HRT options do work for some of us! How long have you been on this... path, I guess? How has it affected your day-to-day?

[VeronicaLynn]

Because I feel - right now, at least  - that I'm some kind of genderfluid. So if I'm in a girl body and feeling manly, then I'll dress masculine and that'll be it. If I transition and wind up with a guy body, and I'm feeling more feminine, then I'll be a dude in a dress. It'll feel like crossdressing. Which isn't terrible per se, but obviously not ideal.

For sure. But my challenge for the time being is to figure out if I'd rather 'be a dude in a dress' or a 'girl in a suit'. (Not that I'd ever wear a suit, but you hopefully get the idea.)

Makes sense, I tend to go with a more mixed look, though some people don't like doing that. I still get read as a guy, though I don't wear dresses or skirts usually, just pants and tops from the women's department and light makeup. I don't really want to be seen as a dude in a dress though, and I feel really out of place in a suit.

I haven't entirely ruled out HRT, I just don't seem to be in a rush for it like the binary folks here are.

It's been over four years since I came out to myself and this place. I did initially think I was binary trans, and secretly thought this for many years before. Actually interacting with trans and non-binary people here and elsewhere quickly got me thinking I was some form of non-binary, though I still am a bit fluid and think about full transition from time to time. I don't really ever go back to thinking I'm a guy though.

I don't tell people in real life unless they ask. I live in a fairly liberal area, so most people don't care or even notice. I don't know that I could move to a more rural area like you mentioned. I feel the need to really tone things down when I travel, and I hate it.

[BT04]

Makes sense, I tend to go with a more mixed look, though some people don't like doing that. I still get read as a guy, though I don't wear dresses or skirts usually, just pants and tops from the women's department and light makeup. I don't really want to be seen as a dude in a dress though, and I feel really out of place in a suit.

I haven't entirely ruled out HRT, I just don't seem to be in a rush for it like the binary folks here are.

It's been over four years since I came out to myself and this place. I did initially think I was binary trans, and secretly thought this for many years before. Actually interacting with trans and non-binary people here and elsewhere quickly got me thinking I was some form of non-binary, though I still am a bit fluid and think about full transition from time to time. I don't really ever go back to thinking I'm a guy though.

I don't tell people in real life unless they ask. I live in a fairly liberal area, so most people don't care or even notice. I don't know that I could move to a more rural area like you mentioned. I feel the need to really tone things down when I travel, and I hate it.

That's interesting! I started thinking I was non-binary several years ago when I was on medications, but now I'm feeling more binary than I did then. And when I was a teenager coming into my fluidity, it was binary then too, though I mostly suppressed my masculinity.

They/them pronouns wound up making me feel dysphoric, and trying to pass as ambiguous/androgynous wound up making me dysphoric too. I wasn't comfortable with being truly masculine back then, though. I still had it in my head that I wanted to make myself smaller, more invisible. But something happened recently that flipped a switch for me - out of nowhere I suddenly found myself OK with the idea of being a more visibly masculine presence, with being tall, strong, charismatic. I think it's just that I feel a lot more secure and confident than I did 5 years ago, and also the fact that it occurred to me that I could be gay when I'm a dude hit me like a truck. I guess, among other things, calling myself NB was me being insecure with my masculinity, trying to be trans while still clinging to this identity of "girl-like person who's into guys".

The switch-flipping also happened when I realized that I had it in me to be a... well, switch in BDSM terms, which is also something that I've historically had a very difficult time reconciling. Suddenly realizing I could be masculine AND dominant sometimes? And that it's OK?? Wow, empowering. (Coming into being a switch can sometimes be as difficult as coming into being bi. There's definitely pressure to choose 'one or the other'.)

Just trying to figure out what to do with it!

You're right though, the 'rush' seems to be a pretty good tell for binary trans folk...

I don't tell people at all. My husband and best friends know about my gender questioning, and my mother theoretically knows because I wrote her an email, but I think she's largely forgotten all about it since nothing's "changed".

The urban/rural divide thing seems to be... less drastic than a lot of liberal cityslickers think, tbh. I live in a very conservative exurb right now, bordering on horse-owning country, and I'm surprised at how many people don't even bat an eye at me when I'm out and about in my very gender non-conforming attire, my tattoos and facial piercings. I was at Target today and one of the cashiers even complimented me on my piercings! My conservative relatives, too, usually keep their mouths shut about people they would otherwise disapprove of. Sometimes it really is "live and let live" with folk in areas like this - so long as you aren't too loud n' proud about stuff, they're happy to let you be your quirky self.

[BT04]

Dang, found my old account on here. My last threads are from about 4 years ago.

It's interesting to see where I was back then. I see echoes of those feelings and lived experience in what I'm going through right now. The anxiety is the same as it ever was. I get excited, almost dizzy, when I think about what COULD be. And then something in me cowers at the prospect of such drastic change, I overwhelm myself and I retreat back into the safety of the old me. It's safe, but it's stressful. It's like asking yourself if maybe you didn't make the wrong choice in marrying the person you did; not a question anyone wants to think about, but something is such in the relationship that you're asking anyways.

I feel like I don't know anything about myself all of a sudden. The surety I felt a month ago is dissolving into fear. Am I making this all up?

A few things I know for certain:

- The hysterectomy was one of the best decisions I ever made.
- I never learned to socialize as a girl until adulthood. My childhood friends, my body language, my signalling: almost all male.
- As a very young child, I think I expected to grow up to be a man. I remember thinking that I'd learn to pee standing up, that I needed to practice shaving. (Another distinct memory of looking in the bathroom mirror at my 5-year old self, my face covered in blood from when I got hold of a shaving razor.)
- I was 16-ish when I named my male side.
- Most of the positive sexual dreams I've ever had featured me being male.
- I don't seem to have the best somatotopic mapping of my chest or vagina, and my ability to feel much of anything, let alone pleasure, from touching these areas fluctuates, though most of the time it's "meh".
- I need to take a little break from thinking about this until I hear back from the therapist! I will try to do nothing but continue trusting my gut for now.