Not sure what is happening. Confused and need information

[Breeze 57]

I'm desperately looking for information as I am not quite sure what is happening.  First some background and I will try to make this brief (I know I get bored with overly long back stories):

I'm 57 years old, married, have 2 grown children, and 1 new grandchild (one week old...what a cutie).  Always had a fascination with pretending to be female (in private) since 6 or 7.  It kind of went away from about 16 - 26, but then came back and has gotten progressively stronger.  Gone through all the guilt and shame associated with this and have done several purges; only to have the compulsion/obsession come back and I re-buy everything. Told my wife about 2.5 years ago.  After some initial shock and emotional trauma, we are still together basically as friends and roommates (no intimacy and separate bedrooms).  Told my 2 kids about 6 months ago.  They are still rather "iffy" with the whole thing.  Saw a therapist last September and he basically confirmed to me there is no "cure" for this and my choices basically boiled down to transition or try to cope with life as a man.  Suffered from depression most of my life and tried to cope with this through booze and by getting a very physically demanding job which just exhausts me.  This last December I got drunk at a party and told some more people.  My wife and I discussed this and basically she told me she was ready for a separation for both our sakes.  I then decided if I was going to be alone, I might as well transition.  Since then I've gotten about 12 hours of electrolysis, saw a doctor my therapist recommended and was prescribed Spironolactone  and Estradol .  The doctor told me to do 2 weeks of Spironolactone alone and then start the Estradol.

Enough background.  Now the issue I'm confused on.  Well, after 2 weeks on Spironolactone, I feel good.  Sex drive is pretty low which I am also okay with.  The compulsion/obsession to present as female is practically non-existent.  I basically feel like a genderless person and don't feel the urge/need to transition.  I've been on Estradol for only a few days and don't really feel anything in regards to this.

My questions:  Is this a normal response?  Am I really transsexual, or has my obsession with being female all my life all been testosterone fueled?  Now that the urge is gone, do I continue with the Estradol?  How can I go from a compulsion that led me to undergo electolysis and bear my lifelong secret to a doctor be just "gone" after 2 weeks of Spironolactone?
Nothing else in my life has really changed.  My wife and I are still together (though I don't know for how long) and I'm still working my exhausting job (though I don't know how much longer for this either).  The only change has been 2 weeks of Spironolactone and it is not a particularly high dosage.  Has anyone else experienced anything similar?  If I just stayed on the Spironolactone, would there be any health drawbacks you know of?

Please give me you honest feedback.  I've got a pretty thick skin, so you will not offend me.  Also, how do you deal with the Spironolactone and peeing?  I feel like I pee constantly.  I must go at least 6 times a night.

Thanks in advance for any information/advice you can provide me.

[Dena]

Welcome to Susan's Place. It's an entirely normal response. Our transgender feeling is cause by our birth sex hormone which is in your case is testosterone. Reducing testosterone reduces the transgender feeling and for some, cross sex hormones which in your case is estradiol helps contribute to the sense of well being. Some members on the site find they can survive by taking hormones and not transitioning. For other a transition is needed to help eliminate the discomfort.

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[Laurie]

Hi Breeze,

  I'm Laurie. Welcome to Susan's Place. ((Hug)) Come on in since Dena left the door open for you. I hope you like the decor and find something here that makes you want to stay.
  Your story parallels mine quite a bit though mine start a bit before yours did. The way you described it is pretty much how I experienced and fought against this dressing for so many years with the purses, the drinking, and other bad behaviors trying to cope with a life that I couldn't live in. A little over a year ago I discovered what gender dysphoria was and the more I looked into it the more I saw myself. About a month later I was taking spiro and estradiol. With all the dressing that I could not stop there was always something missing and that missing part was that I wished I was a woman and of course I wasn't one. This was a life long wish. With hrt and therapy I am becoming that woman I have always wished I could be. I am learning that I always have been that girl. Today I am living full time as myself finally. My journey is far from over but I and finally becoming who I have always wanted to be.
  As for the effect you are experiencing yes it is a common thing to have that dysphoria lessen and therefore the "urges" lessen but it is only a part of the process. Where you go from here is up to you. Each of us do what we need to do to feel right with ourselves. You Breeze must decide for yourself what you need to do to make you feel right. Being a man wasn't it because you are not a man and never really were. This gender thing encompasses a whole spectrum and it is up to you to decide where you fit into it. For me it is to live as a woman.

Hugs,
   Laurie

[Denise]

Breeze,

My earliest memory from the age of 4 is "something is wrong".  At 53 I couldn't take it and found a condition called "Gender Dysphoria".  I had never heard of it.  The definition was me.  And then I kept reading and found that was the clinical definition for people who are transgender.

October 2015, at the age of 53 years and 10 months, was the first time I realized I really am transgender.  Whether I took hormones or not that's what I was.

There were a lot of tears, a few arguments but today my ex-wife and I are still friends and get together once or more a month.  She couldn't live with a woman and I could live without being one.

Today I feel "normal".  I actually now understand what a cis person feels about their gender...NOTHING. It's very strange.

My medical transition was 2 months on Spiro alone and found my sexual desire drop to nil.  But what was more important was the Dysphoria changed.  I can't say it went away (back then I thought it had, I just didn't realize there was more hiding) but I could say it was way tolerable.  And I had the exact same thoughts as you.

I started Estrogen two months later and it didn't change me mentally for about 2 months.  Physical changes started at 11 days (let's say sleeping on my stomach was not comfortable)  but it was 2 months after starting E that I actually started feeling better/right.  E isn't anywhere near as powerful as T so it takes a bit to get going.

At 14 months I think I'm almost done with what E will do mentally and physically. Except for some physical changes that only surgery will help (face and srs) I'm pretty much done.

It's a roller coaster with ups and downs.  But for me (this is my experience) it was worth it.  I miss the comfort and daily interaction and the physical contact but at least I'm alive at 56.


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[Allison S]

I had this reaction too and still do. I have days where I think "well I feel fine. I've avoided as much interaction with people so they don't misgender me. That's a success!". I realize my own self dialogue reverts back to wanting to be perceived as female. I struggle with knowing if being female is what I actually want anymore. It's hard to imagine what it would be like. I know who I am and how I express my own femininity but what makes someone a "woman"? I don't know.

I do know that all this confusion and questioning hasn't stopped me. I take my spiro and estradiol and I keep going. I don't mean it'll work for everyone but it's what I'm doing.

The hardest thing for me is to reconcile with family needing to see us struggle with something for them to accept our path. Like you, and many people here including myself, we struggled many ways. And then we start conciously transitioning and it's not all suddenly gone.

I'm now rambling but testosterone is one hell of a hormone. I feel kind of bad for men because a person assigned female at birth never having to experience high levels of testerone would never understand it's effects. It's actually incredible

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[Lady Sarah]

I had gone so far as to join a crime fighting organization known as the Guardian Angels, and learn to kick serious butt without weapons, largely to try to bury the feminine feelings. It did not work.
Stopping Spiro and hormones may raise your testosterone, but then those feelings will come back. You can decide for yourself what path you choose to follow, but I am happy you chose to ask for help here. Listen to what these people tell you. If you really had feelings that you wanted to be a woman, then being a woman would be the only thing to make you happy with yourself. Face it, you are going to live with yourself for quite some time, and you want to enjoy that sort of company.

[Bari Jo]

Yup, this is completely normal.  Beware of thinking its not needed though.  Its easy to think the drugs aren't needed when you feel like this.  However, stopping them can make the dysphoria come back with a vengeance.  It did for me.  I am on my third attempt at transitioning and I think I can see it through this time.  If you have a therapist, discuss this with her.  If not, get one, go to group, etc.

Bari Jo

[Breeze 57]

First off, let me say thank you to everyone that has replied.  It helped tremendously.  Second, let me apologize for the typo on my subject line.  The first word should have been "not".  Left off the "t".  I had even proofed this before I posted this.  I hate when I make stupid errors like that for a first impression on a public forum.  Thirdly, sorry that I didn't read the rules and regulations of the site before I posted.  Whoops, my mistake and thanks Dena for correcting my ignorance.  Totally understand the reasons behind the policy.

After experiencing the effects of Spironolactone and the ensuing absence of the "urges/compulsions",  I have no desire to stop taking that at all.  Holy cow, what freedom I feel not having my every waking hour consumed by these thoughts.  My real question is, since I feel so good now, and now feel like I could go either way on actually transitioning to female, do I continue taking the Estradol?  I'm staying on the Spironolactone for sure, but not sure which way to go with the Estradol.  It's hard for me to imagine feeling better than this.  Are there more mental effects by taking the Estradol?  I know the path to transition to female is fraught with hardship so I question the "cost/benefit" ratio.  Any thoughts? 

Hopefully, I didn't miss any glaring typos this time.

[Dena]

Over the long term, it's best to have a sex hormone in the mix to help your bones retain calcium. For MTFs that would be estradiol however the dosage doesn't have to be a full transition dosage. Whatever dosage your taking, expect to see feminine development though it could be slower on a lower dosage. You will see many of us who have transitioned or are in the process of it on the site however the one who are avoiding the transition aren't as vocal. The following links will tell the other side of the story where members for some reason aren't able to transition.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,130268.0.html
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,207785.0.html
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,209589.0.html

[Laurie]

  Second, let me apologize for the typo on my subject line.  The first word should have been "not".  Left off the "t".

I took care of it for you,Hun.

Hugs,
  Laurie

[Katie Jade]

Hi Hun
Your story parallels mine so much except for the grandchild, and I want her/him/them to grow up only knowing me as Katie. I'm 55,  did 6 months self med last year and that was so good , but took a while to kick in. I'm doing it safely now (Do not self med at all ever ever.. too dangerous, I had some support as I had INRs and other tests due to medical issues I have anyway), and now on E and some AAs / Fin under medical supervision. Head is slowly getting to where it needs to be and learning to cope with life better. And occasionally I see the real me in the mirror (Late mid age woman which I am so happy to be). That is so good - really really personally inspiring.
As with you, this has been a journey of many decades, no cure except accepting yourself and doing what little we can to be as close to who we should have been all along. Its an easy journey if you are patient and have a very very tough skin, as we need that, and you are so aware of being in safe places most of the time. That's a lie btw, it can be difficult at times but there are so many good personal moments you will have that make it worth while.
You need to be who you are, not what other people expect of you, and that can come at some cost depending on your circumstances. I am separating from my wife and soul mate of 27 years, but she will remain my best friend as she understands what has happened and that I have sacrificed my true happiness so that she has had hers. My Children are accepting in so much that they realise how close it has been for me to not exist any more..
Don't thing this GD is insubstantial, despite most people thinking that transitioning is a 'choice', it is truly deadly if not controlled.
No cure but to be your true self so I salute you in realising then  - just hold onto that with all your heart and mind and find your journey to be happy, and you will be. God bless. We are here to help where we can.
Hugz
Katie

[Breeze 57]

Dena:  I read all the threads you suggested.  They were helpful, but not exactly what I was looking for.  Do you (or anyone else) know of anyone (or any other threads) where the person just stayed on Spironolactone and what their results/experiences were?  I would think someone has done this, but maybe not.  I understand the potential loss of bone density by just staying on Spirolactone alone, but I am 57 and wouldn't cis-women who have gone through menopause (and have very low or no estrogen) have the exact same risk at this point in their lives?  Unless cis-women still produce estrogen after menopause?  I'll have to do some outside research on this.

Any and information is appreciated.  Hate to sound like I'm just asking the same questions over and over, but I really need to figure this out.

[Dena]

Bone health is a difficult question. I was off all hormones for 10 years (long story) and didn't have any trouble. Probably part of the reason is I still consume milk every day and I take a calcium supplement. My genetics may also result in healthy bones but that's guess work. We have members who went off hormones post surgical and had bone problems after a few years but I don't know about their diet.

Most of the time we produce hormones in our old age and I still produce some testosterone, enough to put me mid range feminine. Some women in menopause have minimal if any hormone production in menopause and need supplements or special medication.

In addition, going without estrogen isn't fun for the first couple of years. I had menopause hot flashes until my body adapted to the new levels. In addition, I lost my facial fat and looked old and gaunt. Two years on HRT and many of those issues have reversed themselves but you can pry my estradiol out of my cold dead hands.

Anyway, possibly this table might be a bit more informative.

ESTRADIOL LEVELS
SEX                     pg/ml
Women (> 18 years old)   
      Follicular Phase  30-120
      Ovulatory Peak   130-370
      Luteal Phase      70-250
      Post-Menopausal   15-60
Male                    15-60

TOTAL TESTOSTERONE LEVELS
SEX      ng/dl        ng/ml
Females  6 - 86     0.1 - 1.2
Males  270 - 1100   2.4 - 12
Conversion factor: 1 ng/ml = 3.47 nmol/l

[Breeze 57]

Thanks for the reply Dena.  I appreciate the information.  Before I took the Spironolactone, I was 95% certain I wanted to transition (always some doubt in a new endeavor).  But now that the Spironolactone has effectively taken away the urgency of transition to almost zero, I find myself questioning the need for the Estradiol at all.  While not transitioning may not save my marriage, it would probably make things easier with my kids and grandchild.  I just basically feel genderless right now which sure beats the incessant thoughts and obsessions that used to fill my head.  I'm still taking the Estradiol, but really questioning its continued use.  Only been on the Estradiol for 1 week so I'm sure I am not feeling any positive mental effects from it yet. 

I guess my basic question would be, hypothetically, if I didn't realize any body changes at all from the Estradiol, would I still benefit from it mentally?  Does it make one feel better mentally, because in the end, I just want to be at peace in my mind.

[Dena]

Personally I never notice any mental benefit from taking estradiol. Possibly it's because my level have never reached the lower level of what's considered a transition dosage (about 100 pg/ml) nor are they ever likely to reach that level in the future. People above 200 pg/ml often report somewhat warm fuzzy feelings at least until there levels start to drop. Most of the time you hear this when people are on injections where there is a weekly cycle or on implants with a far longer cycle. I haven't heard it reported with pills as estradiol has a half life of 2-3 hours and levels rarely exceed 200 pg/ml for very  long.

By the way, no development isn't guaranteed on Spiro  alone. If you look at the side effects, one is breast development. With the T out of the way, any natural estradiol in your system is more effective. There are other medications that cause feminine development so if your family notices, you can simply say it's a side effect of the medication and not tell them what your taking.

One other detail you  may not be aware of. Sometimes there seems to be a genetic link with the LGBT family. We have members on the site who have reported multiple members of their family belonging to the LGBT family at far higher numbers than one would expect from the limited membership of this site. Don't be surprised if it turns out you have company.