Can someone with ovotestis comment please?

[MrsSmith]

According to my xrays I have more pelvic feminie traits than male traits,
I also have something going on with my danglers that is strange, and has always been there.
There is this scrotal mass on the left side, it is not a tumor, its not any of the normal testicular conditions that can develop, i dont know what it is, all i can assume is that its an ovary... Also without being on hrt my Estrogen is high, like in the 50's, and my testosterone is only about 300-400, and this is from samples taken early in the morning. I was diagnosed with hypogonadism. Also, I dont know if it's relevant, but i have pectus excavatum, and my sternum is not fused yet, and i am 30, It pops all the time as a matter of fact. I know that this is often seen with xxy, and other conditions.
Can anyone that has been diagnosed with ovotestis tell me what some things are that i could look/feel for? I need to determine whether or not I have this.

[Michelle_P]

That sounds like a spermatocele (epididymal cyst), or testicular cyst.  It should be evaluated by a doctor.

You might be interested in reading a bit on prenatal exposure to xenoestrogenic compounds.  Exposure during fetal development is correlated with a number of interesting things including much of what you mention in your post.  I have a personal interest, as I was exposed to high levels of diethylstilbesterone, or DES, from about week 10 of my fetal development.

[MrsSmith]

Well it's not a spermatocele, or a hydrocele, and its not epidimitis, i have been through all of that already. it's something else. 99% sure. That's why i came to the idea that it might be this, but the info you post is interesting. I will look into it. I was an 80's baby, so I'm sure I was exposed to all kinds of bad stuff, but you wouldnt know it, i'm in great health, and i have no allergies. I'm not even allergic to poisin ivy.... And i have 20/13 vision.
How did you find out you were exposed to DES? I came out of the womb with a hard on...That's what they tell me, apparently i came out hard and pissed right in the nurses face.

[Michelle_P]

I found out about my DES exposure from my mother.  She was an RN, and was participating in a lifetime study, where annual medical questionnaires were sent out.  The questionnaire that year included some asking about some medications taken during pregnancy and some followups.  That got her thinking, and she told me about the exposure to DES via prenatal prescription vitamins.  I actually remember the brown bottles that were in the medicine cabinet for years after one of my younger brothers (also with DES exposure and complications) was born.

I was an early 1950s baby, and the dosages for DES were massive in the early applications.

[MrsSmith]

hmmm, interesting. I  was wrong about a term i used above, I DO NOT have pectus excavatum. I DO have pectus carinatum...

[felixtemin]

Hello,
I would suggest getting karyotyped.
I found I was mosaic klinefelter's.
I was estrogen cycling for years, and then my hormones went crazy.
Echos showed I had lesions in my testes(small).
My HCG started to go up. T and E went up.... and down (1000+)
MRI showed gadolinium positive spots.
So I opted for bilateral Orchiectomy.
Everything stopped going crazy.
I am now transitioning to the middle. Taking only E.
Very happy now.

[Rachel_Christina]

I have had similar thing too. Duno does it mean anything. I would love to try this Karyotyping thing.
Just to know is anything odd.
The left side has like typical ball, but has like what feels like a mass of other stuff hanging off it? Like it hasn't killed me after all this time so it's not cancer or anything, like everyone always thinks.
And also between my P and my A I have a tiny hole thingy maybe an inch long and maybe a centimeter deep. It's really strange.
I'm not clinging on to the hope that I am somehow inteesex, it's just highly interesting.
At the end of the day if the brain of trans people truly is feminised or masculinised due to hormonal problems in development, it would ultimately mean we are intersex anyway
Anyway what do you think?

[felixtemin]

That's so cool
You should definetly get some genetics done.
Wish I had a little hole there. Working on it.
WPATH doesn't allow for that transition... ;-(

I am starting this though: (its a petition)

https://www.change.org/p/gail-knudson-transition-rights-for-intersex-and-non-binary-individuals

[Spunky Brewster]

I'm not clinging on to the hope that I am somehow inteesex, it's just highly interesting.
At the end of the day if the brain of trans people truly is feminised or masculinised due to hormonal problems in development, it would ultimately mean we are intersex anyway
Anyway what do you think?

The issue with trans people claiming intersex status for things that happened in the womb (and may not have happened, since that might not be the cause at all) is that for intersex people who are born with ambiguous genitalia and have to have operations at three for "corrective surgery" and can't walk anywhere. Then, puberty never happens. You get made fun of. And its much much worse when you're AMAB and are then forced to be a boy when you've always known you are actually a girl. But, still, everyone wants to beat you up, since your smaller than most girls. You're pretty and get treated like one in some respects. But, in most, you're an outcast and someone to hurt. An other. Because it's hard to hide 34B breasts when you're a 17-year-old boy in the summer. Not to mention your general body shape and voice. It all screams girl and everyone says it all the time.

It sucks.

Big time. But my point is that when trans people say they are intersex for this or that reason, it appropriates the massive amount of both physical, mental, and emotional pain that forge an Intersex woman into a unique, delicate person who is independent and strong at the same time. That's a struggle. An intersex struggle.

I have 46-XX ovatesticular DSD. I had a vagina and penis fused together, but the penis was longer than a certain number, so they removed the vagina at age 3. I have uterus. My testes are mostly ovarian tissue and are in my scrotum but not like a man's. They are like large peas and soft. It hurts to touch and never do. I didn't and couldnt get an erection until I was 18 years old. All this was hidden for years.

In any event, no one knows what intersex is, so I just say I'm a hermaphordite, but mostly I just tell people I'm trans if I have to, which I never ever do. I could tell people I'm a guy and show them ID and they wouldn't believe me. It happened. This was b4 HRT lol!!!

BTW, please don't take this the wrong way. You seem really awesome and I do understand what you mean. But trans people have no need to apologise, since being trans is not a disorder it just is and there is nothing wrong with it. There is something wrong with the people who want to erase our community of queer people. But we are strong!

[Rachel_Christina]

That's cool too see a true intersex persons perspective here.
I haven't a clue though on the mater on trans or intersex. I just feel female that's all I know.
But if scientists or doctors or who ever could really tell for certain that actually brains of males and females are different based on sex and gender, and that a genetic male actually had a "female" brain that formed this way because of what ever reasons, it would ultimately be classed as an intersex condition.
But what causes it and this and that, and what it would mean to me I really don't care about.
I find it just a very interesting topic sex gender all the variations that can happen. It's madness
Even the fact that something so simple as females being XX and males being XY fascinates me to no end.

[josie76]

Spunky, I certainly do not want to diminish your life struggles, that's for certain. Being born sexually ambiguous and having your gender picked wrong has got to be aweful.

The whole concept of what intersex is, is not really well defined by the medical field.
For instance do you have to show both genital parts to be intersex? Does having traits of both sexes but not specifically genitals qualify? I honestly don't know what the definition should be.

I have overall normal appearing male genitals but I have an unclosed perennial raphe, a split and rejoined raphe on my penile shaft, and female shaped pelvis bones, knee and elbow angles. My pelvic bones have traits such as raised aricular surfaces and even visible prearicular sulcuses on the Ilium that according to anthropological higher education says occurs in less than half of cis-women. The more muscle I loose the more female my body appears. Could I have a trisomy 47XXY condition? I still don't know. I don't think I have any other of the common klienfelters symptoms. Otherwise I see the likelihood of DES exposure from prescription prenatal vitamins as the most likely link. For now I'm still trying to figure my start to life out.

I just think we all need to look at all of us as one group. We all suffer the Dysphoria and we all just want to live a happy life whatever that is. We should not not try to compare each other's hardships and take offense if one has had a harder time than another. If we don't support each other who will?

[Doreen]

Saw this and thought I might add my perspective to it... I had an ultrasound that said I had all the female works (uterus, ovaries, etc).. then a MRI said NONE of the works... then my endo said I had the female works from her total assessment & blood workup & all. Needless to say I'm a bit confused lol.   My OB/GYN agreed that I wouldn't have the estrogen production I have off of HRT without some kind of gonad (generic for sexy bits) producing it.  His solution is an endoscopy scheduled for next Saturday to see if I do have an ovo/testes or something going on inside.  One thing is clear.... I have cramping and pain located in that region of the body, so it does need to be assessed.   My endocriniologist told me its a type of androgen insensitivity, though the MRI doc called it pseudo-hermaphroditism.   I think the jury is still out, but at least I have 2 diagnosis I can sink my teeth into.

I'm very curious to see what turns up, but if NOTHING turns up i'll be annoyed as something is hurting down there and its not my active imagination.  We'll see.

[JennyBear]

That's cool too see a true intersex persons perspective here.
I haven't a clue though on the mater on trans or intersex. I just feel female that's all I know.
But if scientists or doctors or who ever could really tell for certain that actually brains of males and females are different based on sex and gender, and that a genetic male actually had a "female" brain that formed this way because of what ever reasons, it would ultimately be classed as an intersex condition.
But what causes it and this and that, and what it would mean to me I really don't care about.
I find it just a very interesting topic sex gender all the variations that can happen. It's madness
Even the fact that something so simple as females being XX and males being XY fascinates me to no end.

    Actually it can be and has been proven. Just one problem, it can only be proven during autopsy. The brain scans that can be performed while alive can only show a likelihood of us having a pseudo female brain, at least with current technology and research.
 
http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2017/04/heres-the-biggest-study-yet-on-sex-based-brain-differences.html   
https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different.html
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/85/5/2034/2660626/Male-to-Female-Transsexuals-Have-Female-Neuron
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3105355/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987404/

    Dissecting all the information shows that in some respects, a M2F brain is in an in-between and both state. In others, it functions purely as a Cisgender female brain, but in no case of Moderate to Severe Gender Dysphoria in M2F's was there shown to be any instance of a M2F brain being biologically the same as a Cisgender Male one. There are many more scientific studies than just the ones I posted. The problem is getting mainstream society to accept the research. Heck we still have people that deny that global warming is even happening, let alone whether or not we have an effect on it. Over 25% of the U.S. population didn't want to believe that Puerto Rico is part of the United States.

     Part of the problem with getting Legislative bodies to accept these scientific facts is that then we are completely validated as having a real medical condition that will have to be covered by insurance companies. Kind of sad though that even a Sharia Law, terrorist sponsoring ultra-conservative country like Iran accepts the science of transgenders and provides coverage for treatment while the United States doesn't.

[Sharon Anne McC]

*
Allow me to add a penny and a half of my thoughts to this thread.

Rachel, Doreen, Jenny, Felixtemin, and others:

Sometimes we don't ever know all the answers, but we can take satisfaction with the ones we do receive.

There are web-sites that post those brain tissue slides that illustrate that the M-F Transsexual brain is similar to the cis-female brain while the male homosexual brain is similar to the cis-male brain.

My face and habitus appeared male til 9th Grade.  As a teenager, I went into a quasi-female puberty, developed up top as much as my sister two years older, my voice did not change, and my face feminised.  My family frequently mis-gendered me when they saw pictures of me during my teen years - they thought that they were seeing the picture of a girl, not me as a boy.  Sheesh!

I did not begin exploring my anatomy until I had been on ERT and in my 20s.  I discovered what I called a vagina - it was a 'cavity' about 4 inches deep and pleasurable when stimulated.  Sure 'nuff, following an exploratory operation, the doctors told me that I had no male internal anatomy and am female inter-sexed.

My current gynecologist for the past couple years has entered into my medical record her agreement finding the absence of a prostate and the presence of a cervix.  That makes me smile wide.

I had gonads that I could feel as about the size of a peanut, one on each side of my abdomen.  My current primary physician reported to me a few years ago that my organs were ovaries.

Dr. Chettawut performed my recent revision - well, two years and counting anyway - and he removed my ovaries.  I asked for his evaluation; he told me that they were definitely not testes, but that he did not want to go as far as confirming or asserting that they were ovaries.

Back in my time four decades ago, doctors told me that DNA testing would cost $10.000 and no insurance coverage to help pay.  No thanks, I spent my money better.  I am living fine without knowing all my exact details because I am female anyway, different results would not change anything at this late time, and I have no regrets other than that I would do better if I had an opportunity to do it all again.

*

[Doreen]

*
Allow me to add a penny and a half of my thoughts to this thread.

Rachel, Doreen, Jenny, Felixtemin, and others:

Sometimes we don't ever know all the answers, but we can take satisfaction with the ones we do receive.

There are web-sites that post those brain tissue slides that illustrate that the M-F Transsexual brain is similar to the cis-female brain while the male homosexual brain is similar to the cis-male brain.

My face and habitus appeared male til 9th Grade.  As a teenager, I went into a quasi-female puberty, developed up top as much as my sister two years older, my voice did not change, and my face feminised.  My family frequently mis-gendered me when they saw pictures of me during my teen years - they thought that they were seeing the picture of a girl, not me as a boy.  Sheesh!

I did not begin exploring my anatomy until I had been on ERT and in my 20s.  I discovered what I called a vagina - it was a 'cavity' about 4 inches deep and pleasurable when stimulated.  Sure 'nuff, following an exploratory operation, the doctors told me that I had no male internal anatomy and am female inter-sexed.

My current gynecologist for the past couple years has entered into my medical record her agreement finding the absence of a prostate and the presence of a cervix.  That makes me smile wide.

I had gonads that I could feel as about the size of a peanut, one on each side of my abdomen.  My current primary physician reported to me a few years ago that my organs were ovaries.

Dr. Chettawut performed my recent revision - well, two years and counting anyway - and he removed my ovaries.  I asked for his evaluation; he told me that they were definitely not testes, but that he did not want to go as far as confirming or asserting that they were ovaries.

Back in my time four decades ago, doctors told me that DNA testing would cost $10.000 and no insurance coverage to help pay.  No thanks, I spent my money better.  I am living fine without knowing all my exact details because I am female anyway, different results would not change anything at this late time, and I have no regrets other than that I would do better if I had an opportunity to do it all again.

*

Can I ask why Dr. Cheetawut would convince you to remove the ovaries? Or did you ask him to? If they were cancer prone I can understand, but to just simply remove them 'just because' seems a bit... excessive? I would think it would be far preferable to leave them in and a possible source of natural (always better) than HRT for the rest of your life.

[Sharon Anne McC]

*
Doreen:

Depending upon my blood work every six months before Dr. Chettawut, my Endo maintained me at base-level estrogen.

I consulted with my Gynecology Department before I went to Chettawut Clinic.  The head nurse was satisfied for me to retain my ovaries.

My trip to Bangkok came as quite a sudden event; I had barely begun considering revision until May 2015.  I decided on Dr. Chettawut based upon his reputation and his anatomically correct techniques.  I began corresponding with Dr. Chettawut during June 2015 and by July he scheduled me for late August 2015.  Other surgeons whom I contacted were telling me that the soonest date would be two or three years in the future.

During pre-op correspondences and pre-op exams, Dr. Chettawut gave no indication that he would remove my ovaries, so that specific topic did not occur.  It was that I noticed that they were gone as I took assessment of my post-op condition when I asked Dr. Chettawut about their removal.

I agree - retaining them would likely have been its own option.  I knew that there was the potential for cancer, so I am okay and have no regrets that they are gone.

For me, another consideration was that they contributed to my inter-sexed condition.  They were what emitted either the failed estrogen or the excess testosterone that masculinised my external anatomy.

Perhaps a lesson to future patients wherever you go is to discuss whether or not to retain them or remove them.

*

[Doreen]

*
Doreen:

Depending upon my blood work every six months before Dr. Chettawut, my Endo maintained me at base-level estrogen.

I consulted with my Gynecology Department before I went to Chettawut Clinic.  The head nurse was satisfied for me to retain my ovaries.

My trip to Bangkok came as quite a sudden event; I had barely begun considering revision until May 2015.  I decided on Dr. Chettawut based upon his reputation and his anatomically correct techniques.  I began corresponding with Dr. Chettawut during June 2015 and by July he scheduled me for late August 2015.  Other surgeons whom I contacted were telling me that the soonest date would be two or three years in the future.

During pre-op correspondences and pre-op exams, Dr. Chettawut gave no indication that he would remove my ovaries, so that specific topic did not occur.  It was that I noticed that they were gone as I took assessment of my post-op condition when I asked Dr. Chettawut about their removal.

I agree - retaining them would likely have been its own option.  I knew that there was the potential for cancer, so I am okay and have no regrets that they are gone.

For me, another consideration was that they contributed to my inter-sexed condition.  They were what emitted either the failed estrogen or the excess testosterone that masculinised my external anatomy.

Perhaps a lesson to future patients wherever you go is to discuss whether or not to retain them or remove them.

*

Its unfortunate that you weren't able to retain them, as they might've provided enough hormones to prevent the need for HRT.. but life is what we get dealt   In the end as long as you are happy and at peace with your decision, that is what matters.