FTM shoulder problems?

[Sevan]

Hey guys!

I'm androgyn identified but I'm on T and have been for nearly 2 years. I've heard about alot of guys struggling with shoulder injuries after starting T and I didn't want any part in that. So I have been careful when I'm working out and try to pay alot of attention to posture, body mechanics and I lift less weight than I'm completely capable of...all in hopes of being kind to my shoulders and not hurting myself.

I had top surgery (which for me, was a breast reduction, not full chest reconstruction) a little over 2 months ago and have gotten back into my work out routine. I started with the elliptical and was doing fine with that. Careful to not reach my arms too far forward (my scars go all the way under my armpits, and I've got keloid scarring...) and careful not to get back to weight lifting...partially due to fear, and partly because I *think* I'm not suppose to be lifting weight until 3 months out...but I'm not sure about that part. Probably should ask my surgeon again about weight lifting.

A few days ago I felt some popping in my shoulder..nothing major, wasn't really doing anything at the time. I didn't pay attention to it because sometimes my joints just pop. Happens. Over the last few days though my left shoulder has been feeling just...off. Not *pain* so I didn't really pay too close of attention to it.

Yesterday morning I was doing my kettlebell work out with a 5lb kettle bell (I can TOTALLY lift 10 or 15, but choose to go with the lighter weight for a more cardio effect...and to keep babying my chest) and I only did 10mins but it did kick my butt. Anyone not familiar with kettlebell...the main movement is to swing the kettle bell above your head and then bring it back down between your legs as you squat. Rather than stagnant movments, most kettlebell movements involve swinging the bell around in controlled ways.

Today my deltoid feels weird and hurts deep in the joint/deltoid area.

It's got me worried. I'm trying to let it rest some today, and want to monitor it. I don't know if I've just got a sore shoulder because I'm getting back into working out, or if I've actually *hurt* it.

So...what is it that goes on in FtMs that they are so prone (are they even?) to shoulder issues? My prescribing doctor is my GP and I'm his first female bodied trans person. He's helped MtFs transition but never any FtMs. So I'm not sure that me going to him going "um...worried about my shoulder..." would really give him pause or have him make the connection between T and what's going on. (if there is, in fact, any connection) So I'm coming to you guys for a bit more information!

It's possible I'm being paranoid about nothing...wouldn't be the first time. But all the same.

Thanks in advance!

[sneakersjay]

I haven't noticed anything when I was lifting.  Granted, I'm a weakling, LOL, and never used weights heavier than 25 pounds (free weights).  YMMV.


Jay

[tekla]

Totally guessing but... it might give you an idea of where to start looking.

1. While T will increase muscles (both strengh and stamina) it may not have that same effect on the bones and tendons.  Or, even if it does it might work at very different rates, increasing muscles far faster then bone and tendon and thus making it easy for you to lift more than you can really support.

2. Too much, too fast.  Are you trying to put on muscle in a matter of months or years at the level that takes men years to decades to really build up?

3. Women's bones get more brittle as they age.  This often seems to accompany menopause, which makes me think that lower levels of E might prevent the calcium from doing what it needs to do to strengthen them.  As you have lowed your levels of E, that despite the T, FtMs bodies don't know that (can't process it) and your bones are getting more brittle all the time.

Like I said, just a guess, but also a place to start.

[Caldwell]

I'm sure it's just an injury and not caused by testosterone. It can't actually harm your shoulders.

3. Women's bones get more brittle as they age.  This often seems to accompany menopause, which makes me think that lower levels of E might prevent the calcium from doing what it needs to do to strengthen them.  As you have lowed your levels of E, that despite the T, FtMs bodies don't know that (can't process it) and your bones are getting more brittle all the time.

Like I said, just a guess, but also a place to start.

Women in menopause have more osteoporosis because they hardly produce any sex hormones at all. FtMs on testosterone have hormonal environments similar to cis men, who aren't at as much risk of bone problems. Castrated men or MtFs with orchiectomies and no HRT are at just as much risk as cis women after 45. So, no, not really.

[tekla]

I'd love to see studies to back that up.  But I'm leaning more to 1, as that's basically what is killing major league pitchers these days - rotator cuff injuries - once rare, today's pitchers have so much muscle to put into the pitch that the underlying structure can't sustain the stress.

[Jude]

not on t or anything but i've found that at the end of the day when i take off my binder, my lower back kills. never had this problem before binding.

[Mister]

Shoulder injuries?  A lot of guys?

I've heard a million weird transition stories in the past decade, but this is the first time I've heard a claim of shoulder troubles.  Aside from muscle development and possible discomfort from its use as a tertiary injection site, I cannot think of a single thing that would be even remotely related to testosterone.  I call BS on this one.

[Sevan]

From the same post but on a different site:

I don't know the answer for certain, but I do know quite a bit about physiology. I am a nurse as well.

When transitioning, you are pretty much stuck with the skeleton you have. In the case of an FTM, a cisgendered female skelton. Also, the shoulder ball and socket joint is one of the most easily dislocatable joints in the body. The addition of T to a cisgendered F physiology greatly increases muscle mass, but leaves the skeleton and ligaments largely unchanged. Bigger muscles on the same frame can make the frame break.

Ever watch "Punpkin Chunkin", if you only increase the force to the pumpkin without strengthening the structure, it will break.

The joints will strengthen over time, but the muscles get bigger much faster.

Also, the concern over T and shoulder injuries came from both hearing from a guy who had to go in for shoulder surgery which he related to having been on T and over use. Then I also have a local friend who's FtM and a personal trainer (and just finished grad school in Physical therapy) . He advised me to be wary of joints and really emphasized good posture and careful attention to how you use your muscles due to ....well...if I could remember his advice fully I wouldn't have come here to ask! lol.

I tend to err on the side of paranoid when it comes to pains and creeks in the body. I am obsessively worried about becoming disabled and not being able to work. I suspect I may be over reacting to over working my shoulder when I jumped back into kettle bell workouts too fast, too soon. At least....I hope that's all it is.

[caseyyy]

Interesting, I've never heard of this before but it does make sense. Glad you found an answer. Something I'll have to take note of for when I start T.

[Electric Wizard]

It's likely due to overdoing it. It's true that the tendons and ligaments take a little more time to adjust to the new musculature, so they're easier to injure. That's the only reason I have heard for increased injury while taking T.

[Mister]

From the same post but on a different site:

Also, the concern over T and shoulder injuries came from both hearing from a guy who had to go in for shoulder surgery which he related to having been on T and over use.

Edited for correctness.

T makes your muscles ache.  It doesn't cause you to need shoulder surgery.

[rorythedinosaur]

i am reviving this topic because i have a lot of tendons issues recently (started 3 on 8th Sep 17). I know that T is not good for collagene, since it inhibits its synthesis, but all my tendons "pull". My postural doc says it's T related and that i have to stretch. Did some of you experience this before? i also have some stiffness/numbness feeling when this happens on my thumbs, feet, and leg. can you relate?

[Kylo]

The only time I've noticed stiffness in tendons is when I fail to stretch/exercise for a few days. If I'm being very lazy and don't do any exercise or sit around for a couple of days without doing much, I get the impression the tendons "shrink" and then they will pull or even ache while I'm doing nothing to aggravate them.

But I noticed that's been a thing for my whole life, nothing seems to have changed while on testosterone. If I don't work out, or at least move around a bit, I get some mild tendon problems without fail.

I take it as a "use it or lose it" kind of warning from my body.

As for shoulder issues... currently I have some 13lb dumbbells lying around which I will pick up spontaneously around the house throughout the day, and these are not what I'd call heavy weights... I used to lift twice those easily when I was borrowing the dumbbells belonging to my stepfather in my teens and they were set up for him, but I can hear some light crunching coming from both shoulders when lifting overhead and I don't think I've noticed that before. I'll do some warm ups before picking up the weights in future.