What makes someone a trans-fetishist?

[WolfNightV4X1]

I've noticed this a lot, and I'm not totally sure what the general consensus is in drawing the line between someone who is attracted to people who happen to be trans versus someone fetishizing/objectifying trans people.

This is weird in my opinion because I see a lot of people who claim someone is fetishizing or objectifying when it just doesnt seem that way to me?



Some of the things I go by are that someone is a fetishist if:

*They do not treat you as a man/woman, and instead as an "other" or they treat you as your birth sex that's masculinized/feminized
*Misgender the person
*They use language that is careless and rude
*They only look for trans people with specific body types and dont care about the emotional impact of that body type on said person and whether or not it causes them dysphoria
*They insist on having sex a certain way and are disinterested or argumentative if the trans* person declines


If someone isnt a fetishist, I really think it's fine that:

*They are curious about or have a preference for transgender people (but again, still treat them as a man/woman who happens to be trans, but not a transgender person)
*Liking a certain body type and having a positive attitude towards it, but understanding the trans* person's feelings towards their own body before initiating sex
* Tend to be generally or decently informed about trans people, may be slightly ignorant but not meaning hostility and can be corrected
*Ask what they like to call their parts (I've legitimately seen people who ask to have sex with trans people ask this)
*Generally maintain an open consensual discourse throughout the process


That basically boils down how I feel about that, I've seen people rebuff interested people and claim they are fetishists over what seemed pretty innocent, I dont think having a preference/interest/attraction is fetishizing on it's own and it depends largely on the behavior/attitude of the person overall.

Meanwhile, on another side of the scale, I've seen straight people who are just looking to hook up with the body type they are attracted with and will say something like "But wait you're still a man/woman, right?



Am I missing anything, or is there anything that needs to be added?

[Elis]

See my answer here https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,232446.msg2080730.html#msg2080730

[HappyMoni]

I couldn't agree more. It boils down to one thing to me. Respect.If there is no respect for the person, it is probably a fetish, they are looking for an object not a person.

[AgentVermont052]

For me, it comes down to how they treat us as a trans person. A lot of the time I see people treat us as parts and not people. They see a ftm not only as their birth gender but as what parts they may have pre op. I see this with women looking at trans men and men looking at trans women. Although I can't speak for everyone's personal experiences, but as I have dealt with being personally verbally attacked by a TERF, I can attest she only saw us (both ftm and mtf) as the parts we have in our pants and didn't see us as people.

If that makes sense. Tried to explain my view without going on a rant.

[November Fox]

You can have a fetish and still respect people (think BDSM). But in that case both parties are informed of the interest and voluntarily participate because of it.

Or you can be an ass like the TERF described and reduce people to body-parts instead of seeing them as individuals. So I would say it depens on what kind of kinks people have + mutual respect + seeing each other as individuals with a personality.

[Devlyn]

Looks and body don't really steer my attractions, it's the person that draws me in. If you can fetishize the inner strength that radiates from a transgender person, then I'm a fetishist. And a ->-bleeped-<-. 

Hugs, Devlyn

[SeptagonScars]

In general I am fine with being objectified and even fetishized to a certain degree. However when I've ended up with people who have completely zoomed in on my pre-op parts while being very disrespectful by not taking no for an answer (cause I don't like having anything put inside me there, but sometimes being overly clear about that isn't enough, apparently), just isn't the way to turn me on.

I mean, I can't deny that I like it when others are fascinated and kinda bewildered by the fact that I'm trans and how I look (makes me feel extraordinary and special, I guess, so it's nice for my huge ego), even if that's the only reason they are attracted to me at all, as long as they're not getting rapey with me. Most people I've been with have been one night stands, so there was no emotional connection between us which is how I like it too.

So, I don't actually mind whatever reasons or mindsets people I'm with have or don't have, it's when/if they cross my boundaries or even assault me that I have an issue with. Basically my point is that for me it's pretty much anything goes, but damn you if you don't stop when I clearly say no. However, at this point I don't really get all that upset when such things happen to me anymore. I've become desensitised somehow and brush it off within days or just minutes after. I didn't think I could get used to that kind of thing, but oh well. I move on from such experiences quite easily these days, but I still know it's effed up.

I've only been with men, by the way. Most of them bisexual, a few straight or bicurious, one gay, some I don't know how they identified. They've been of all ages ranging from 20-something to 60-something. Most of them have been a delight to be around, just a few that were bad apples.

[Lyric]

You seem to have a strong need to lay a negative label on people, Wolf. You don't have to lay a label on people who are rude and treat others in any sort of dehumanizing way. Those are just people to walk away from. There are plenty of good people around without over-analyzing the nasties.

I've long observed a tendency by people in the TG community to use "fetishist" to describe a sort of second class TG citizen as well. I think there are just a lot of different types of sexuality and I won't judge any of them as superior or inferior. In fact, I've always thought that sexual crossdressers were more logically grouped with lesbians, gays and bisexuals because they all describe sexual desire. Transgender only describes identity.

[Maria77]

Years back I was going thru a pretty active phase of semi-casual sex.  This one guy, who was a pretty big body builder type and I had been chatting.  As I grew to trust him a bit, we discussed my pre-op status and basically how it disgusting.  To make a long story short, when it came to actually hook up the idiot basucally raped me by holding me down and doing stuff I did not want to do and had been clear about.   I still shudder when I think about it, but only recently realized that it was rape.  I think back then I just blocked it out and moved on. 

Later, I had a good friend who was a gay male whose best friend/roomate was straight.  These guys had a beautiful apartment (the gay guy was a fantastic designer, the str8 guy not so much, but his girlfriend mainly decorated his room).  Hanging around with this guy and his friends (basically diverse crowd) was really nice because I was just one of the females who hung out there.  I did eventually have a fling of sorts with one of the guys and he was so respectful, in direct contrast to paragraph 1 rapist.

My point decent men ARE out there, and there also fetishist who may or may not be dangerous