Are you perplexed by MTF motivations?

[Lady Lisandra]

I was perplexed the first time I met a trans guy (way before I accepted myself as trans woman). Why on earth would a biological woman want to be a man? Being a man sucks, and you'd have to give up the great things that make you a woman, like breasts, hips and a functional female reproductive system!

That was only my first impression. I know now that he probably felt exactly as I did but in the opposite direction. He hated his vagina as much as I hate my penis.

[Morgan78]

I guess it's just me then! I'm shallow. I admit it. 

Edit: I'm a trans newby so I've just begun exploring this. Maybe I shouldn't have said perplexed. Sometimes I'm just taken aback by someone giving up everything I hope and dream for. It was a mental thought I noticed, not that I thought they were crazy or something. I don't know if I'm explaining this correctly.

It's probably why I have Cocinelle as my avatar. She's the goal in my mind. I can never reach her level but she's a hero to me.

Edit again: I think I'm still stuck in the mode of being jealous of women I see. I haven't made the mental transition of self-acceptance and wanting to be "me" as a woman.

That's fair, and makes your original post make more sense. I'm sorry, I was a bit harsh yesterday. I completely understand the jealousy aspect; I think it's normal for us to be jealous in some way of those who were born the sex we identify as, especially those of us who experience genital dysphoria. I'd happily trade body parts with you if it were possible.

[amandam]

That's fair, and makes your original post make more sense. I'm sorry, I was a bit harsh yesterday. I completely understand the jealousy aspect; I think it's normal for us to be jealous in some way of those who were born the sex we identify as, especially those of us who experience genital dysphoria. I'd happily trade body parts with you if it were possible.

Did you ever look at a man and feel you were robbed at birth? Or felt he was lucky? Was it all men? Or just the "toughest" or "most virile" examples?

If only there was a machine where we could test drive other bodies!

[AnonyMs]

But the thing that baffles me the most is....why on earth would you want a vagina? To me, having the thing was disgusting, and I wanted it gone. Having a penis was just so much more efficient. Something sticking out of your body instead of going inside. Easy to clean and all that. Now that I had surgery, I'm so happy everything is right down there, and I can't comprehend anyone wanting to have, or create, an extra hole down there.

But that's just my manbrain talking. I'm sure our dear MtF's can't imagine actually wanting a penis.

Personally I think having a penis is more practical, but I'd still rather have a vagina.

[Deborah]

I'm always amazed in these types of threads when trans guys say that adding T into their system makes them more calm.  The best way I can describe it, when I had a lot of T in my system I felt like a barely in control berserker most of the time; the rest of the time the berserker was let loose and out of control.  Without T and with E I can sense that it's still there but rather than constantly raging to be freed it waits to be called if it's ever needed.  It's a huge difference.

If others, whether mtf or ftm feel anything similar to that then I can understand them completely.  It's the difference between being out of control in an alien land and sitting comfortably at home next to the fireside.


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[Kylo]

It's much the same on E for some of us. Over anxious, over analyzing, over compensating/emotional on E. Not much fun if there is something inside you demanding that you shouldn't be doing any of those things. The frustration is cumulative. Without it I can see how bad I was becoming near the end before I finally got the go on the HRT. Must have been so much fun to be around. Moody, got angry almost instantly at people, would rage at people I knew if they said the wrong thing till they were cowering in the corner or pushed into some sort of real altercation. If someone wanted one too, I'd be more than happy to give them one. I'm glad it's over.

It's not like that isn't still in there somewhere; but it only comes out when needed, instead of the drop of a hat. It doesn't change the underlying personality and capability I guess, but it does change how you handle yourself and others.

I sure don't understand the "roid rage" people talk about. I've been more calm this last year than in my entire life. I don't think hormones are responsible for the rage, it's whatever internal conflicts the person is having already, plus their inability to resolve them. 

[BT04]

I'm excited to go on T but also nervous.

As someone with endocrine-based PCOS who's always had elevated androgen levels, my naturally heightened T levels made my teen years pretty miserable. When I was sexually aroused, that was it. Nothing else existed. It felt really good, actually, until the "wave" was over and I was left with the E, which felt like going through withdrawals. I was tired, disoriented, depressed, self-loathing.

T made me feel sharp and capable, even if at the time it was almost all sexual energy. I'll probably have a much better time with it now, being older. When I wound up on birth control (essentially HRT to manage my PCOS), I felt like I'd gone on a low dose of antidepressant. I felt even-keel in a deadened way most of the time, I experienced more chronic, subconscious dissociation. I struggled with my sexuality a LOT and went several years thinking I was asexual and aromantic because of my complete lack of a sex drive, something that made my marriage miserable. I experienced panic attacks and harsh mood swings. Never again. Been doing some reading lately on the potentiality of PCOS as an intersex condition, depending on how it manifests, and I'm guessing that I have a pretty typically masculinized brain; no wonder pumping more female hormones into it was such a disaster.

[Contravene]

I think given our dysphoria it's perfectly natural to find it difficult to relate to the opposite side of the spectrum, at least at first, and many people who say otherwise are pretty obviously just trying to stay safe or PC to avoid offending anyone.

After all, the girls who are MTF want the things that we FTM guys despise and vice versa. It's almost a subconscious idea of "how could you want something that's causing me so much grief?" until we stop to think about it. I know I've had the idea before of "who would ever actually want to be a woman? I can't stand it!" until I thought about it and realized that's because I'm not a woman so of course I can't stand it. That's where empathy comes in and you put yourself in the other person's shoes. If a trans girl looked at an old picture of me and felt confused or upset that I had given up that appearance to transition I wouldn't hold it against her. I only would hold it against her if she didn't try to reconcile those initial feelings and understand things from my perspective.

[Devlyn]

It's pretty obvious that running on the wrong hormone is what causes people issues, not which hormone it is. Also pretty obvious that some of the posters in this thread think their personal situation is the only correct perspective. Willful ignorance is totally inexcusable.

Hugs, Devlyn

[BT04]

Also pretty obvious that some of the posters in this thread think their personal situation is the only correct perspective. Willful ignorance is totally inexcusable.

Hugs, Devlyn

Lack of empathy and talking from a place of personal incredulity sure is something, isn't it?

But nobody's perfect. I experienced my dysphoria by projecting my self-loathing onto other people, and went many years being a misogynistic prick. "I hate my body," my logic went, "and so should you."

[Contravene]

Huh, I hope those last two posts weren't referencing mine but maybe it's just the similar language that's making me think that. The "pretty obvious" part.

I had a feeling people might get a little bent out of shape about the line:

and many people who say otherwise are pretty obviously just trying to stay safe or PC to avoid offending anyone.

Let me clear things up. I wasn't referencing the forums or posts here (if I was I would have pointed that out) and only skimmed through some of them. I didn't even see your first post, BT04. The key words were also "many people".

That's simply what I've found to be true from real life and other experiences.

Around the time when Caitlyn Jenner came out publicly I worked for a media company and certain employees were always quick with the transphobic jokes but would then turn around and release articles supporting the transgender community and pretend they did too. I've seen comments elsewhere on things like before and after pictures where people comment "she was so pretty, I would give anything to be a woman. Why did she turn into a man and ruin herself?" Then I've heard and witnessed people (sometimes the same ones) who bend over backwards to try to be accepting so they can maintain a certain image who will vehemently deny that they've questioned a person's motives for wanting to transition.

It's natural to be curious, it's natural to not always understand. There's a big difference between being perplexed by something and just being a jerk about it and not even attempting to understand.

I feel that for transgender people dysphoria can make it difficult to understand certain people's motivations for transitioning but at the same time it can also help us to understand them.

So let's not be passive aggressive, condescending or imply that someone's a prick. If you dislike something about a post of mine feel free the address it in the thread or send me a pm about it.

So much for that empathy.

[amandam]

I think that many trans people go through the jealously phase as a part of the journey. I am still there in many ways but not as bad as I used to be. When I see a pretty girl, I think she is SO lucky. When I see a beautiful woman change into a man, I get like OMG! How could you!  I know why she does it, but I have an internal reaction to it. I like to self-reflect on things like that while I journey.

[Devlyn]

Contravene, I can only speak for myself, but my post had nothing to do with yours.

I believe the people who needed the message got it.

Hugs, Devlyn

[Hughie]

Before I came out as trans, I was an attractive woman--or so it may have looked on the surface. But I wasn't a woman. It felt like a masquerade, going through the motions. It never felt right to me and when all the pieces finally clicked for me that  I was male, I was so relieved. Why do any of us transition? To have our bodies reflect our minds, whether that's ftm, mtf, nonbinary, etc. To me, the way I was felt very wrong and I needed to transition. It's a process but absolutely the right one. I'll look like a beautiful man instead.   But most of all, it's how I feel, and I want the reflection to match the mind.

[SeptagonScars]

I'm more jealous of cis men than pre-transition trans women, cause cis men tend to be more satisfied with what they've got and also have what I want for myself. But of course I've wished I could trade bodies with trans women. But now that would be a little too late, as I'm quite far into my transition and look more male than female.

I do feel a lot of jealousy though. Half of which I don't know how to handle, and the other half of it I somehow try to use as a goal to reach. Knowing very well I can't become or fully look like a cis man, I know there are a lot of it that I can actually achieve if I'd just try to. I try to stay hopeful while still being a total cynic. And I'm trying to remind myself that many cis men are jealous of each other's looks too.

But I'm also jealous of other ftm's whom I think look better/more male than I do. I know it's not a competition and nor should it be, and intellectually I accept that but my emotions never agreed with my mind. And perhaps sadly I even get jealous of cis women if they have more masculine looking bodies than I do now after having taken T for 5 years, cause I then tend to think that's so very unfair, and what if that had been my starting point prior to transition.

But for mtf's I can only really think they're basically facing the same awful struggles as I do, but in reverse, so it's difficult for me to be jealous then, if that makes sense. Whether I can understand it or not emotionally, I have a lot of compassion. And I can't help but taking the mental/emotional aspect into account. Because ultimately what I want is for my body and mind to be aligned, and not just a specific type of body. For me, that somehow changes my perspective on the matter.

[November Fox]

I'm always amazed in these types of threads when trans guys say that adding T into their system makes them more calm.  The best way I can describe it, when I had a lot of T in my system I felt like a barely in control berserker most of the time; the rest of the time the berserker was let loose and out of control. 

In my experience: hormones that you have, but contradict your mind (the sex you ARE) will create this kind of conflict. Estrogen has always messed with my moods and made me extremely angry, aggressive and unpredictable even. With testosterone there is no trace of that.

I heard several (trans)guys say something similar, and several (trans)women say that on testosterone their mood was awful. So it´s not the  hormone so much as the connection it makes to our brains.

Edited to add: should have read other posts, I´m basically repeating what has been said 

[Transfused]

For me it's fishy looking drag queens who can make me dysphoric.
Especially Courtney Act.
When she is Shane Jenek and not Courtney, I'm like : " why would you on earth want to be a guy if you look that good as and have such a nice personality as a girl.
I just don't get it when good looking drag queens return to their male persona eventually.
But that's the thing : I am trans and dysphoric and they are male and happy to be males.
Make-up and wigs is enough for them, for me HRT and multiple painful surgeries are needed.

[lil_red]

It took me a very long time to realize I was transgender because I had always lived a very sheltered life.  I had never heard of FtM and very little about MtF, and I couldn't identify with MtF people because I couldn't even understand why females wanted to be female, much less why a male would want to be femele.  Obviously I don't think that way anymore though.

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[Hannah Samira]

Echoing a lot of people here, I think perplexed isn't the right word. I too look at a lot of FTM transition timelines, but I don't think that it's a shame that they've transitioned or not understand it. The only thing I think is that often I want to look like the before picture!

I have a friend who is an FTM in the closet and we frequently say to each other how we wish we could just swap bodies! But I never look at them and think "why would you want to transition?" or "oh it's a shame you're transitioning". I just think "good for you and glad we're in this together!"

[PurpleWolf]

Hear me out here. I like to search for before and after pics. I have seen some very beautiful women who became men. The first thing that pops into my head is, omg, how can you give that up, you are so perfect, omg. Do you think that sometimes about guys who transition into females? Do you get like, geez, you're John Wayne, what the heck is wrong with you?

Haha not exactly  !
After all - female is the more beautiful/attractive sex in general!!! So usually MTFs just look waaay better after transitioning imo  ! I'm a total straight guy so...  ! The more women on this planet the better  !

But like you - has crossed my mind with ftms funnily. Even with myself. Sometimes been thinking if I could've made a nice-looking woman then xDDD. Totally nuts! Like 'why do I need/want body hair exactly' etc... Especially with balding and stuff. But really can't stand my body has a female shape so T is a necessity for me! I just hope T will make me more good-looking - and not uglier  !