(poll) I really want to know.

[Denise]

Please see my "dreaded locker room" post (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,234584.0.html) for the exact situation.

Monday is the last class.  It will not include any pool work so no more locker room drama in my mind.  BUT I want to ask if they knew I was transgender.

I would word it this way:
I would like to ask a question.  The possible answers are, "Yes", "I suspected" and "Nope" and the question is "did you know I'm transgender."  I give it a 50:50:50 (?) chance.

The dive shop is LGBTQ friendly so that's not an issue. 

I've felt very comfortable for the past few weeks and even my neighbor has commented that there has been a marked improvement in my appearance, disposition, etc... and I'm really curious if two people I had just met, spent about 10-12 hours with knew I was transgender.  I'll probably never see the woman again.  The instructor I probably will see as he works in the dive shop where I'll probably do future training and buy supplies.

[Julia1996]

Why would you ask them that? I would leave it alone and volunteer nothing.

[Jessica]

I would treat them as I would any woman in there, and would expect the same.
Never would I consider saying anything, it's as bad as asking a woman if she is pregnant.  What if your wrong?  And beside ...how rude is that!!

[Denise]

I would treat them as I would any woman in there, and would expect the same.
Never would I consider saying anything, it's as bad as asking a woman if she is pregnant.  What if your wrong?  And beside ...how rude is that!!

I don't understand your response.  I'm telling them I'm transgender.  What I'm really looking for is "Do I pass well enough in close quarters?"

[Julia1996]

I would treat them as I would any woman in there, and would expect the same.
Never would I consider saying anything, it's as bad as asking a woman if she is pregnant.  What if your wrong?  And beside ...how rude is that!!

OMG, my dad did that once. One of my mom's friends was over that he hadn't seen in a while and she had gained a lot of weight in her stomach. He said " oh, and congratulations by the way". She said "about what"? He said " your pregnancy ". She gave him a scathing look and said she wasn't pregnant. He got so embarrassed!  Even his ears turned red. I had to leave the room so I could laugh!

[Sephirah]

Based on the question in your poll, I'm inclined to agree with Julia and not ask anyone. I don't see what purpose it would serve other than to preempt something you have a feeling may come up later.

If no one in your vicinity says anything then, were it me, I would just leave it alone.

I am curious why you want to ask, though.

[krobinson103]

Let them wonder. What do you care? If they ask, talk about it. If not, move on.

[Denise]

I am curious why you want to ask, though.

Some people will not like this answer but everyone at least will understand my answer.  I want to know "DO I PASS?"  If for no other reason than that.  This is for ME not for them.  A totally selfish question.

Let them wonder. What do you care? If they ask, talk about it. If not, move on.

That's my question - Do they wonder?  Did they even consider it as a possibility?

Remember I'll probably never see these people again.  Hey, you never know.  Maybe they will become an ally.  Consider this - I'm pretty normal doing something normal that they both thought was normal.  I may be the first Trans person they've ever talked to.  Let's put a nice face on what it is to be transgender.  I'm just a person out living their life.

[Rachel]

Denise, I have meet you and you pass.

If you are accepted then you are accepted.

[KathyLauren]

Let's say you did pass.  They didn't suspect a thing.  And they are extreme transphobes and now feel they have been 'tricked'?  Not pretty.  Why even take the chance?

[Denise]

Let's say you did pass.  They didn't suspect a thing.  And they are extreme transphobes and now feel they have been 'tricked'?  Not pretty.  Why even take the chance?

Why take the chance?  It's a public location with lots of people around so if they "blow up" it's on them with lots of witnesses.  The male instructor is "G" friendly at least (He's talked about his gay roommate in fond terms) and the woman is uber friendly and it wouldn't surprise me if she were "L".

BUT all that aside - It's quite possible they have never had the opportunity to talk to or meet a transgender person.  I know that's possible because I had been on hormones for 5 months before I talked to anyone I knew to be transgender.  I wish I had the opportunity years ago.

It might help people "behind me" get accepted if the people I talk to better understand that we're not freaks as some would make us out to be.

I feel I'm an advocate for the Trans community.  I will answer all but one question (and not it's not what's in my pants) and this is yet one more opportunity to spread "the gospel" of what it is to be transgender.  I don't really care if people know. I feel being a "normal" person is a good face to put on the "T" community.  It's possible the only thing the woman knows of the LGBTQ community is the Pride Parade and that's like comparing dirty dish water to fine soup. 

I'm surprised that NO ONE (so far) would ask and how adamant you all are about it.  Please keep going.  I'm really interested in everyone's opinion.

[kitchentablepotpourri]

I kind of feel like you would be putting them in an awkward position by asking; for example if someone asked me if I could tell they were trans (well, since I'm a trans person I probably already be questioning in my mind, but for this example I'm a cis woman [wow, it is better on this side of the fence, even the colors seem brighter somehow!!!], and someone asked me that direct question); if I sespected they were trans and they asked me, I would not want to hurt their feelings and tell them I wondered if they were trans, I would probably say I had no idea, and would have never guessed, and then I would feel awkward around them; and if I didn't suspect they were trans I would probably be annoyed, because they were asking such a question out of the blue, and then after that I would feel awkward around them (anyway that's the impression I get about how cis people would feel if a trans person asked them if they passed or not).  And how would you feel if one or more of the people you asked told you you didn't pass? 

My personal philosophy about my own ability to pass is that I assume some people can tell I'm trans, some people wonder, and some people may not know, but what is really important is that I am treated respectfully wherever I go, and everyone I encounter addresses me with female pronouns; so it's all good. 

[Dena]

Asking one person if you pass is relatively uninformative. Like in school, some instructors are easy graders and others are hard graders. You may pass 99% of the time but if you bump into the hard grader, your confidence in yourself will be blown. It's far better to take a passive approach and see how people react to you. If your accepted by others, that's all that's important.

[Lady Sarah]

It might be less harmful to you if you ask "so, what do you think about transgender people?" before telling them anything. That way, if the response is less than what you want to hear, you can exit the scene.
I met gay folks that literally HATE trans people. The same goes with straight cis people. You never know when spilling the beans is going to blow up in your face.

[HappyMoni]

My thought is that this is an emotional thing for you Denise. All the logic of 'you should not care and you should accept yourself,' I don't think you are doubting. I have had this same thought and have been tempted to ask someone. A new teacher at my school now knows I'm trans. I had a conversation with this young woman and she was quite excited about my 'situation.' So, I said, "Am I really that obvious?" She responded that she didn't know at first. I am gonna ask how she found out when I get a chance. Was she enthusiastic about knowing a trans  person and told me what I wanted to hear? I don't know. I think I would have more confidence in her response if a third person asked her about if she clocked me. I understand the feeling of wanting to know how I am perceived. There is a price to pay  if you are perceived as cis. That perception then vanishes. Of course, if it is a stranger, why not?
Moni

[Geeker]

The real question, to me at least, is would it matter if they thought you were or not? And if they did or didn't, what then? Rule #208: Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer.

[steph2.0]

Some people will not like this answer but everyone at least will understand my answer.  I want to know "DO I PASS?"  If for no other reason than that.  This is for ME not for them.  A totally selfish question.

That's my question - Do they wonder?  Did they even consider it as a possibility?

Hi Denise,

I get it. I'm intensely curious about the same thing. As I try different things to feminize myself, there's no real way for me to know how well I'm doing without some kind of feedback.

I won't engage in the "you shouldn't care what people think," or the "passing isn't important" arguments. My personal goal is to pass, to get as close to ciswoman as I can, and to just live as the girl next door. If anybody reading this has different priorities, good on ya. The rest of this message is aimed toward anyone who shares my goals (and I think Denise's, too.)

When out in the real world:

If there's a negative reaction, you've been read and need to do more work.

If there's a positive reaction ("You're doing great, you look good"), you've been read, too, you're headed in the right direction, but still have work to do.

But if there's no reaction, you can't know how you're doing:
Did they read you and are just being nice?
Did they read you and just don't care?
Or did they just not know?

That last one is my personal goal, but there's no good way to know without outing yourself. And the consequences could go so many different directions, some of them double-plus-ungood.

So I restrain myself and continue to wonder...


- Stephanie

[Denise]

Hi Denise,

I get it. I'm intensely curious about the same thing. As I try different things to feminize myself, there's no real way for me to know how well I'm doing without some kind of feedback.

I won't engage in the "you shouldn't care what people think," or the "passing isn't important" arguments. My personal goal is to pass, to get as close to ciswoman as I can, and to just live as the girl next door. If anybody reading this has different priorities, good on ya. The rest of this message is aimed toward anyone who shares my goals (and I think Denise's, too.)

When out in the real world:

If there's a negative reaction, you've been read and need to do more work.

If there's a positive reaction ("You're doing great, you look good"), you've been read, too, you're headed in the right direction, but still have work to do.

But if there's no reaction, you can't know how you're doing:
Did they read you and are just being nice?
Did they read you and just don't care?
Or did they just not know?

That last one is my personal goal, but there's no good way to know without outing yourself. And the consequences could go so many different directions, some of them double-plus-ungood.

So I restrain myself and continue to wonder...


- Stephanie

Thank you!  You understand.

For those who think it's a risk, dangerous, etc... Consider this.  I'm in a friendly city in a friendly dive shop with people who live in "boystown".  There is no safer opportunity for me.

No consider that in a few very short months I'm going to be traveling to some very conservative areas of the US.  If I can pass here in close proximity to people then I should be okay there for less personal contact.

If they knew, it would also give me the opportunity to work on what they picked up on.

Again, thanks for everyone's input and opinions.  At the end of the day, we all make our own decisions, right or wrong.

I'll post Monday or Tuesday the results.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

[Faith]

If you want to know if you pass, lets the children tell you. They are brutally honest and aren't tainted by adult culture and expectations.

[Denise]

If you want to know if you pass, lets the children tell you. They are brutally honest and aren't tainted by adult culture and expectations.

Faith - Great idea!  Now to find some ankle biters.

It might be less harmful to you if you ask "so, what do you think about transgender people?" before telling them anything. That way, if the response is less than what you want to hear, you can exit the scene.

Sarah - Thanks for taking the time to respond.  I do appreciate your angle.

It is interesting the responses I've received here are all assuming I want to hear - YOU PASS.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  What I want is HONESTY.  (see Faith's response!) I'm about to go to the middle of the ocean with a group of people I don't know to do one of the most dangerous things people do every day (scuba dive).  I want to know if I can worry a little less than I normally would.

Sure, I want them to say "OMG, your what???" that would be cool.  But "I knew right away" would be just as good.  I know this is bad, but I spend time (less and less) wondering if the person across from me knows/suspects/has-no-idea.  That will go away in time, but as you all know, time marches to its own drummer.

I hope I've explained WHY I want to know if I pass or not.  It's not that I need or must pass to be happy.

Now, I wonder about the lesbian group I'm in if they know.  This is a group I would NEVER ask as I'm trying to make lesbian friends and that would make things weird.

Thanks again