Have you ever wished you were born decades later?

[BT04]

Also, many small shops, eateries, and hotels in non-destination locations would probably go out of business because nobody would ever think to program their car to take them there - the sorts of places that folks wander through on their way to someplace else, and would never have found such a settlement otherwise. Remember what happened to all the little towns along Route 66? The same would happen most everywhere.

See also: The Art of Getting Lost

[pamelatransuk]

As the question is EVER wished, then I would have to answer YES.

I was born in 1955 and if I could choose year or decade to be born, I would probably say 1985 - 1990 such that by the age of 20, I could have transitioned fully as Transgender matters became more in the public domain in 2005. We still have many problems, but life is gradually improving for us and hence if younger, we can transition earlier and get many more years living as our true selves.

Ignoring the EVER, then on balance I am reasonably content with my life and achievements and family and I think I would not change the time I was born.

[kitchentablepotpourri]

As the question is EVER wished, then I would have to answer YES.

I was born in 1955 and if I could choose year or decade to be born, I would probably say 1985 - 1990 such that by the age of 20, I could have transitioned fully as Transgender matters became more in the public domain in 2005. We still have many problems, but life is gradually improving for us and hence if younger, we can transition earlier and get many more years living as our true selves.

Ignoring the EVER, then on balance I am reasonably content with my life and achievements and family and I think I would not change the time I was born.

The internet was avaible to most people in the late 90s, which allowed easy access to transition information, and allowed a lot boomers to learn, and develop a plan to transition during that time period; however, transition still wasn't doable at that time for some due to finances, family obligations, or other circumstances.  And transitioning for younger people still isn't that easy as they lack the support from their family and peers, and do not have the finacial stability to properly support themselves, or have enough money to be able to afford expensive surgeries; so, transitioning earlier does not necessarily mean an easier transition; some younger MtF trans persons have a lot of testosterone exposure, which even at a young age of 20, still causes a lot of facial bone growth which necessitates FFS.

[Sephirah]

I think it would have been better if I were never born at all

I disagree in the strongest possible terms. *hugs*

But regarding the question posed in the thread: no, I haven't. Everything we have now is built on people who have come before us. The awareness, and accessibility of treatment for our condition is only really a thing because of people who were born before us, facing that world of disbelief and hostility. Making those changes and fighting for recognition which has led to the research, technical refinement of procedures and overall awareness of what we go through.

I think that everyone has a part to play in things. For myself, my experiences in life have been used to help others get to where they want to be, to seek the help they need, and to further the awareness and knowledge about who we are and the best ways to help us get the treatment we need. And I am very proud of that. It's part of what makes me who I am.

I am very happy that things have advanced, and that people seeking help now have more tools at their disposal. But I don't wish I had only been born into this age now. I am happy to have been a small stepping stone in achieving that, and I feel that I've played my part.

[FinallyMichelle]

Good lord, I'm sorry about that experience! I know a lot of wheeling-types can be outright jerks. So I do not blame you one iota! My rig, however, is hardly a "rig" at all - I'm a fan of the Cherokee, and I plan on keeping mine clean and driveable for at least another decade. The restoration, if you will, of a classic car. With the occasional rip out into the dirt. :9

Theorists, political philosophers, and historians sometimes try to figure out when our "fall from eden" happened in evolutionary terms. Some blame capitalism, some blame the nation-state, some see it fit, once they start down that rabbit hole, to go all the way back to the taming of fire itself. I think human cognition itself is fraught - our ability to think in terms of "what if"s and possible futures might have been what did it.

Thank you, I think you're pretty awesome too. It makes me feel a little better to know that others are thinking about these things. As far as science goes, there is no alternative; but it shouldn't be an ideology either, the way it is now. Science is but one tool for understanding the world alongside a host of others, including emotional intelligence and spiritual intelligence. There are things the hands know that the waking, thinking, mind will never understand. My body, even, knew I was trans long before my head did.

I'm skeptical of people who have answers anymore, so I offer none. I, personally, do not experience long-term hope, but nor do I especially experience long-term dread. Come what may - in the meantime, I'll be working on my car and going fishing. Though if you read authors like John Michael Greer, and his inspiration, Oswald Spengler, you'll come away with the understanding that faith in science, or science-like structures follows a pretty reliable pattern over the course of histories and nations. If the two of them are to be trusted, which I think they are as they've done their homework, then the current state of science is a natural stage in the life cycle of civilizations, and it will soon be met with an overwhelming opposition party of religious zealots that will come to dominate the political landscape for some time to come. Rome went through this, I believe, as well as a number of Asian civilizations over the past few thousand years. I think asking if there's an answer or alternative to this is like asking if there's an answer or alternative to growing old - there is, but it's just that you must learn to age gracefully, rather than spend your years trying to find the elixir of life.

I don't believe we're broken - most species are designed to reproduce into overshoot, and reorganize the conditions of their environment to suit that goal, which is precisely what we've done on a mass scale. Science was just one tool to get us there, and it's done a spectacular job. The alternative to that, however, isn't pretty. Try Jared Diamond's Collapse and you'll see what I mean. Unfortunately, these measures certain societies have taken over the course of human history to manage themselves and their pesky "carbon footprints" can be difficult to read about. But at the same time... they work.

Either way, terrible things are probably coming for most people on Earth (the people, that is, who are not billionaires), and and doing what needs to be done to take care of those around us and survive and seek happiness is no original sin.

I, however, would not bank my emotional well-being on lab-grown anything. It's a resource bubble waiting to burst.

😆 I thought that it turned out well, better than some of the things I have written after a few drinks. Wake up the next day, and it's like, 'I wrote that?'

Lol, a Cherokee is not so bad. Um, usually. Do you need a step ladder to get in?

I think that normally I would not have given my opinions on that subject at all. Same with the art thread, wasn't drinking then though I just love art. Not like a student or artist, more like a groupie. 😊 I usually keep my mouth shut around smart or educated people. Not that I am stupid or anything but I am not well educated at all. Lol, I feel that is a bit of an understatement, I quit my senior year 3 years in a row. I was having a hard time then I guess, but no excuses.

Yes, this is one of the things that go through my brain. I say broken too much and it didn't fit there. I guess what I was saying is that people have a tendency to blame science or technology without thinking that it is people behind that science. People that decide what to do or not with technology.

I haven't read those authors, haven't really read anything in five years or more period, but I have considered how cyclical history is. What I wonder is, have we reached the end of some of those cycles? This technology is not isolated anymore. How can the Chinese or Romans have been isolated? Well, compare it to now when almost everything we know is available in almost every livable place on earth. Is there a critical mass in other words? Anything short of cataclysmic is not stopping it now. Also, how much power can religion drum up anymore? I am not underestimating human fear and what it could do, give people enough fear then offer a solution and watch the mass migration. BUT again, this is world wide, all of the nooks and crannies of the human race, can religion control all of that?

I don't know, I have no answers but I do spend a ridiculous amount of time thinking of this kind of stuff. I have felt that fear for the future. I know that my grandparents did too, and their grandparents and probably their grandparents. Who knows.

[DawnOday]

Yes and no. Yes because it is much more acceptable today then back when I was say twenty. When I was twenty there were only a handful of surgeons. Few if any in the US. Today we have much more local resources. But then No because there are still those out there that hate us and they are making a comeback. The hypocrisy is they say, every life is precious yet once you are born nobody wants anything to do with us. However what I have observed in the last week or two gives me great hope for the future. The kids are alright

[Gertrude]

Also, many small shops, eateries, and hotels in non-destination locations would probably go out of business because nobody would ever think to program their car to take them there - the sorts of places that folks wander through on their way to someplace else, and would never have found such a settlement otherwise. Remember what happened to all the little towns along Route 66? The same would happen most everywhere.

See also: The Art of Getting Lost

Ride a motorcycle then


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[steph2.0]

While there was a lot of pain in my former life, I lived it well.  I did some cool things, including something that would not have been possible if I had transitioned earlier: flying a jet in the air force.  (They only allowed male pilots at the time.)  All things considered, I am happy with it.  It got me to where I am today, which is a good thing.

I could regret not having transitioned sooner, but I don't.  Regret would tarnish the joy of my new life.  I don't need to go there.
Obviously, there is a before and an after, with some rather large distinctions between them.  And I do find it convenient sometimes to talk like there are two different people: him and me.  But it is all me.  I don't think of myself as two people.

While my body is being transformed, as are my social interactions and some legal documents, there is no transformation of who I am.  I am still me, the same me that I have always been.  I just get to show more of me to the world now.

You did it again, Kathy. You sure save me a lot of time thinking and typing. All I have to say is ditto.


- Stephanie

[Janes Groove]

You are conflating issues. The only industry who would develop structural unemployment because of driver-less cars would be taxi services, which is an extraordinarily minute section of the economy, and a fairly broken one at that (see: taxi medallions, the million Uber issues, etc.). It is not the same as factory automation in the slightest, the two forms of automation share little in common in what is required of them even.

Also, when it comes down to it, say that it was the same and led to large scale structural unemployment. Well, that is inevitable by nature and inherently temporary (long term structural unemployment is a failure of government and corporate management, which is a different issue altogether). But the benefits? 1.3 million people die per year in car accidents. You would trade 1.3 million lives for half a million jobs?

1.3 million is a world-wide figure. 37,000 is the US figure.

And you're assuming that automated cars won't cause deaths.

Also, how is it conflating issues when the same company, Amazon, the largest growing retailer in the economy, had committed to a business plan of a fully automated retail business model from purchase point to delivery point? We're talking drones, robots, driverless vehicles, electonic transmissions, massive workerless, fully automated, warehouses.  God knows what else.
I didn't even mention the displacement caused already to retail jobs by Amazon.  Don't look now but folks ain't buying stuff at the malls like they used to. They just go there to look and then go home and buy the products on the internet.  How long do you think that will be sustainable?
Also, in the Midwest Rust Belt we have already created a large permanently unemployed segment of America where drug addiction has reached  epidemic levels.  Whole communities ravaged in part by automation.  That's just a drop in the bucket of what's coming down the road.

Perhaps most importantly though, it would open up access to the larger world to people who previously did not have it. People who are handicapped or suffer from other issues that prevent them from driving, and I speak from experience on this (I didn't have my license until 2 months ago because of severe anxiety and phobias surrounding driving). Of course, it is pretty much an all or nothing scenario, and none of the benefits can be fully recognized without complete conversion to the driver-less model. (Also, it doesn't mean there can't be separate areas that are driver-less with additional areas that allow for human control for those who actually enjoy driving. But think about the daily city commute, does anyone really "enjoy" that? That is the area where they are needed.)

Surely society could figure a better way to provide handicapped people with transportation rather than dislocating jobs that millions of families depend on.

[AnonyMs]

Surely society could figure a better way to provide handicapped people with transportation rather than dislocating jobs that millions of families depend on.

I always had the impression that capitalism comes before society, and I can't see it changing over this.

[BT04]

Ride a motorcycle then


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I hope you're being facetious because you missed the point entirely.

[ShadowMT13]

Truthfully, technology is good and I would love for to one day be able to actually have a real penis and testes that actually can be used for reproduction and not just aesthetics, but I feel that societies attitude and the "big high and mighty law makers" views need to change first. It is ridiculous how people where and still are, for me I always had an issue with the world not changing for the better fast enough, it seems it only has gotten worst. So yeah science is good and all, but one of the huge issues that should of changed FIRST is still a problem in most countries. The disrespect of others can't be tolerated and truthfully as far as this generation's teens go, they only got more immature and rude...

[Gertrude]

I hope you're being facetious because you missed the point entirely.

It was re programming the car and staying on the interstates. I guess you missed my point. Motorcycles won't be autonomous. At least not in my lifetime.


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[Gertrude]

Truthfully, technology is good and I would love for to one day be able to actually have a real penis and testes that actually can be used for reproduction and not just aesthetics, but I feel that societies attitude and the "big high and mighty law makers" views need to change first. It is ridiculous how people where and still are, for me I always had an issue with the world not changing for the better fast enough, it seems it only has gotten worst. So yeah science is good and all, but one of the huge issues that should of changed FIRST is still a problem in most countries. The disrespect of others can't be tolerated and truthfully as far as this generation's teens go, they only got more immature and rude...

I find the biggest negative of technology are the added abstraction layers that separate people from how stuff works. This dependency creates a type of incompetence.


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[AnonyMs]

I find the biggest negative of technology are the added abstraction layers that separate people from how stuff works. This dependency creates a type of incompetence.

It's also an advantage. It's been a long time since anyone was capable if understanding all scientific knowledge. By specialising we can individually can go deeper, and people who don't need to can totally ignore it and provide value elsewhere. Or not.

[Roll]

Avoided a previous reply because didn't want to go too deeply off topic, but seems that this thread is just the wild west at this point anyway so I'll say simply:

- Structural unemployment is a simple reality and has been since the dawn of civilization, it is outright necessary to ensure that people seek the skills that are required at that day. You cannot hold back technological progress because of it. Does it suck? Of course, and I'm not discounting those who suffer because of it. But you can't wish it away, no matter how much you try. Progress comes whether you like it or not. Dealing with the fallout of structural unemployment is a major socio-economic political issue that can be addressed through that avenue, the answer is not to simply freeze progress. (Certainly there is a weakness in addressing it, but that is beside the point.)

- You can't take the good of technology without the bad, even if you presume that something like this would be bad. For instance, the very fact we are talking right now. The fact that this forum and others like it are available. The fact that I can visit a therapist online (which, just btw, largely was necessary because as little as 2 months ago I couldn't drive because of severe phobias and anxiety!)... The surgeries we covet in particular... Not possible without the progression of technology.

- There are certainly options regarding transport with disability, but none afford the same independence that self-driving cars would. That independence is so important, and I can't even begin to explain the dehumanizing effects of not having it to those who have not felt it first hand, anymore than we can explain to cis people what it means to be trans.

- In a fully driverless system, deaths would be a fraction of what they are now, and it doesn't matter whether you are looking at just the US or not. There are always mistakes and exceptions when people are involved, even if just in programming the vehicles, but to think that it won't prevent the overwhelming number (like 99%) of deaths is just wrong.

- Again, driverless cars are not the same thing as automation. Frankly, driver-less cars unlikely to happen for another century at this rate anyway. Full retail automation meanwhile is but years away. Regardless, they are not intrinsically connected. It is very, very different technology that are two divergent areas of research. Automation is a matter of having machinery capable of simple tasks. Even then, Amazon is delusional, their plans are just pure vaporware to improve stock price. With current technology there are many facets of their business that simply cannot be automated or require human oversight regardless, even if just for legal purposes. And assuming that it was a reality, well that just goes back into the nature of structural unemployment. One job is obsolete, so you train for a different job. For every assembly line position lost, a programmer is hired. (And I refuse to acknowledge that anyone's ceiling of training is routine factory labor or driving. Despite everything, I have far more faith in humanity than that. I'm not saying the 55 year old factory worker is going to suddenly master Python and troubleshooting neural nets, but there are in betweens, programmer was just an easy example.)

[Roll]

I find the biggest negative of technology are the added abstraction layers that separate people from how stuff works. This dependency creates a type of incompetence.


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This bugs me as well. I really hate that disconnect between people being able to use technology and actually understanding technology. As far as the average person is concerned, their iPhone might as well be magic. I'm not saying they need to be able to pass an exam on their phone's architecture, but people should at least have some idea what goes into it.

[Gertrude]

This bugs me as well. I really hate that disconnect between people being able to use technology and actually understanding technology. As far as the average person is concerned, their iPhone might as well be magic. I'm not saying they need to be able to pass an exam on their phone's architecture, but people should at least have some idea what goes into it.

The incompetence I speak of is more day to day basic. For those that are part of the under 30 generation, can they cook? Drive a stick? Know how to hammer a nail, what clockwise and counter-clockwise is, use any power or hand tools, know or understand how their house is put together vis a vis plumbing, electrical, structure? Everything is magic to them if they don't understand the basics, how can they understand an iPhone? It's not a gender thing either. The more that is done on one's behalf, the less one knows what to do or how it's done. An extreme example in drama of the consequences would be The Walking Dead and Fear The Walking Dead. Cut people off from their dependance and dirt naps follow for many. The greater the separation from the reality of things makes it easier to influence and control people as well.

[Deborah]

Nobody can understand everything in an industrial or post industrial society.  There is simply not enough time in one life to learn it all.  Humans have been specializing since at least the end of the Paleolithic era.  That's why we continue to advance.  So it's hardly a fault that people don't understand everything.  They don't need to. 


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[Gertrude]

Nobody can understand everything in an industrial or post industrial society.  There is simply not enough time in one life to learn it all.  Humans have been specializing since at least the end of the Paleolithic era.  That's why we continue to advance.  So it's hardly a fault that people don't understand everything.  They don't need to. 


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Talking about the basics. Up until about 1850 a really smart person could understand everything that was known. Since then, not so much. That said, younger folks are more separated from how stuff works and it's not that they can't, but because they don't, they aren't exposed to it. If I can get the new stuff while knowing old stuff, I imagine they are capable and further, adaption works in both technological directions.


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