Susan's Place Logo

News:

According to Google Analytics 25,259,719 users made visits accounting for 140,758,117 Pageviews since December 2006

Main Menu

Does VFSRAC help at 57 years old?

Started by cicilia, May 11, 2018, 01:21:21 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

cicilia

I went to see Dr Spiegel in Boston to schedule my FFS, BA, and VFSRAC.  Since I just turned 57;  he said not to expect a whole lot from VFSRAC.  Has anyone had VFSRAC in their 50s+  and had success?  If so,  how many Hz did you go up from the surgery?
  •  

Dena

I had surgery with Dr Haben at 64 and my voice is on his web site. My starting head voice  pitch was between 130 and 140HZ (really bad). I didn't have CTA and the doctor before surgery indicated at best I might only gain 60HZ. Post surgical things have settled in around 220HZ though I can reach 500HZ comfortably. My results were better than expected but I am a non smoker, non drinker and relatively healthy for my age. I suspect that other surgeons could have produced similar results though for that much pitch increase they would need about a 50% tie.
Rebirth Date 1982 - PMs are welcome - Use [email]dena@susans.org[/email] or Discord if your unable to PM - Skype is available - My Transition
If you are helped by this site, consider leaving a tip in the jar at the bottom of the page or become a subscriber
  •  

cicilia

Quote from: Dena on May 11, 2018, 02:18:54 PM
I had surgery with Dr Haben at 64 and my voice is on his web site. My starting head voice  pitch was between 130 and 140HZ (really bad). I didn't have CTA and the doctor before surgery indicated at best I might only gain 60HZ. Post surgical things have settled in around 220HZ though I can reach 500HZ comfortably. My results were better than expected but I am a non smoker, non drinker and relatively healthy for my age. I suspect that other surgeons could have produced similar results though for that much pitch increase they would need about a 50% tie.

I spoke with Dr Haben's office at the outset but there were things I didn't like. The most modern technique is VFSRAC and he  said he didn't know or use that technique.  I told him my company self-insures and that Aetna is merely our administrator;  but he said he would not work with an insurance company and would not accept a letter of agreement from them.  When I called Aetna to talk to them about the difficulties with Dr. Haben;  their Transgender Services Team told me they had done quite a few approvals with Dr. Spiegel in Boston and with Dr. Kim in Seoul SK.  They said that they were unsure if my company would pay for flights and lodging in South Korea;  and I then moved my mindset to working with Dr. Spiegel.   When I visited Dr. Spiegel to talk about FFS, VFSRAC, and BA;  he said that his greatest successes were with women that were doing VFSRAC in their early adulthood and not to expect much since I am in my mid 50s.  He suggested voice therapy; which is covered fully by Aetna. I am presently trying to find a good speech therapist that works via Skype,  or one that is in the Utica area.  So far no success there.
  •  

Dena

Unless Dr Kim has change something, Dr Haben and Dr Kim do basically the same surgery. Yes the procedure is a bit different but the end goal is the same. Dr Kim calls his procedure VFSRAC and I suspect because of the similarity in procedures, Dr Haben's procedure is VFSRAC though he doesn't call it that. It would be interesting to know if there is a significant difference between the two surgeries as I don't know of one.
Rebirth Date 1982 - PMs are welcome - Use [email]dena@susans.org[/email] or Discord if your unable to PM - Skype is available - My Transition
If you are helped by this site, consider leaving a tip in the jar at the bottom of the page or become a subscriber
  •  

kwala

Quote from: Dena on May 12, 2018, 11:48:07 AM
Unless Dr Kim has change something, Dr Haben and Dr Kim do basically the same surgery. Yes the procedure is a bit different but the end goal is the same. Dr Kim calls his procedure VFSRAC and I suspect because of the similarity in procedures, Dr Haben's procedure is VFSRAC though he doesn't call it that. It would be interesting to know if there is a significant difference between the two surgeries as I don't know of one.

There are many differences. Dr. Haben creates a web using a laser to create a burn, then sews the mass of the burned area together. This has a higher potential to scar surrounding tissue and the shape of the new anterior commisure is less predictable. The sutures Haben uses are dissolvable which means that if the vocal cords are not tight enough on their own or end up with a degree of asymmetry a poor vocal quality could result. There is also the option of a simultaneous CTA during the same procedure which yeson simply does not do because of its unpredictability.

Dr. Kim creates the new commisure by hand with a micro scalpel to have a greater degree of control in the shape of the new vocal structure and not cause damage to surrounding tissue. He uses permanent sutures to ensure tightness and decrease the possibility of asymmetrical vibration. There are not a lot of surgeons who possess this kind of precision with a  micro scalpel and it is what makes Dr. Kim unique.
  •  

Rachel

Hello, I am 55 years old. I am having glottoplasty (VFSRAC) tomorrow. The surgeon is Dr. Sadaloff. I had a Sataloff cricoid thyroid subluxation procedure in December. He set me up with one of their voice pathologist and singing coaches post op. I still see their voice pathologists. The first procedure moved my pitch from 135 to 175-180 hz. After the operation I was at 160 hrz, raspy and had low vocal power. I am just now getting use to my voice. At first I thought I sounded horrible. It took a while for my brain to accept the new sounds coming out of me. I have good vocal power now and If I use proper technique my voice does not get raspy at the end of the day. I talk alot.

It took 6 months to regain my voice. Slowly improving each week. They gave a few techniques that really help. I practice them 5 days a week. It took me a while to understand and connect how the techniques helped. Once I connected with what needed to be done it made the differance.

I had 8 months of speech pathology lessons with the same speech pathologist Dr. McGinn used pre-op. She helped a lot but my pitch was not going to allow me to have the voice I wanted. I am in the androgynous range now with male timbre. I have gotten compliments from other trans woman about my voice but I am not satisfied.

The glottoplasty tomorrow is with micro instruments. He will do the operation with a laser. He had made 100 different types of micro vocal instruments in his career. It is your choice. You have to provide reason for each operation and he has to agree that the operation will help you and better your quality of life.

The office is very LGBT friendly.

My voice pathologist was covered by Aetna (in network), My cricoid thyroid subluxation was covered by Aetna (in network) and my glottoplasty will be covered by Aetna in network. Since my deductible is easily meet annually I have no out of pocket cost.

There is no info on Dr. Sataloff's procedures on the net. He is very expensive. I think that is why he is not known in our community. The first operation was $70,000 not to mention the pre surgical testing in his office and the MRI and ultrasound and post surgical testing (three times). I have no idea what the second operation will cost. I will find out.

I spoke with a person that had a glottoplasty with Dr. Spiegel. She had a 30% tie. She needed to have a higher percent tie. She is about 55 to 58 years old. She did not have voice pathology post op and had lost vocal power (perhaps scar tissue where the vocal golds meet). I think her pre and post surgical voice sounded much different. She definitely sounds female. I just think she would have had a higher pitch if the tie was more than 30%. She wanted a higher pitch. She definitely sounds female on the phone and more so in person. We had dinner in a restaurant and there was not problem hearing her.

The difference in pics between a laser and an instrument cut is a whole lot different. Everyone heals differently.  Some heal with very little scarring, some with normal scarring and some with a lot of scarring. The more trauma to an area the more scarring potential that is possible.

Dr. Sadaloff leaves a bit of mucosa tissue pushed out of the way of the web. He does that in case the web needs to be reduced at a later time.

Aetna (we are self insured too) would not cover out of country operations (my company's decision). I am apprehensive going to Korea but I probable would have. However, my transition had cost me a lot and my funds are low. I have alimony and one more your of college and living expenses for my daughter. Perhaps I would have gone next year. So I looked for an alternative. I will post how my voice progress proceeds. If I get 25 to 40 hrz and reduce or eliminate the make timbre than I would be happy.

I think the % web and the type of mucosa removal is very important. How you heal is how you heal. Post op voice therapy is important and with a speech pathologist that has worked with glottoplasty patients. Yet, woman have gone to doctors that use lasers and have had no post op speech therapy and done very well. So in the end you need to do your own due diligence.


HRT  5-28-2013
FT   11-13-2015
FFS   9-16-2016 -Spiegel
GCS 11-15-2016 - McGinn
Hair Grafts 3-20-2017 - Cooley
Voice therapy start 3-2017 - Reene Blaker
Labiaplasty 5-15-2017 - McGinn
BA 7-12-2017 - McGinn
Hair grafts 9-25-2017 Dr.Cooley
Sataloff Cricothyroid subluxation and trachea shave12-11-2017
Dr. McGinn labiaplasty, hood repair, scar removal, graph repair and bottom of  vagina finished. urethra repositioned. 4-4-2018
Dr. Sataloff Glottoplasty 5-14-2018
Dr. McGinn vaginal in office procedure 10-22-2018
Dr. McGinn vaginal revision 2 4-3-2019 Bottom of vagina closed off, fat injected into the labia and urethra repositioned.
Dr. Thomas in 2020 FEMLAR
  • skype:Rachel?call
  •  

cicilia

Quote from: Dena on May 12, 2018, 11:48:07 AM
Unless Dr Kim has change something, Dr Haben and Dr Kim do basically the same surgery. Yes the procedure is a bit different but the end goal is the same. Dr Kim calls his procedure VFSRAC and I suspect because of the similarity in procedures, Dr Haben's procedure is VFSRAC though he doesn't call it that. It would be interesting to know if there is a significant difference between the two surgeries as I don't know of one.

I'm not a medical doctor.  I only know there are 5 typical medical procedures and VFSRAC is the best of the five.  The other four are Cricothyroidopexy,  Thyroid Cartilage and Vocal Folds Reduction, Web glottoplasty, and Laser reduction glottoplasty.  Dr. Haben basically does a Web Glottplasty;  if you look at the pictures on his website.  He didn't want to do VFSRAC because he has not been trained on it,  and he additionally doesn't take any insurance whatsoever for any reason.

If you scroll down about 2/3 of the way on this following web page you can see a table showing all of them with details:
http://us.yesonvc.com/page/2_4_1.php
  •  

Kendra

I had VFSRAC on March 1

Right now I haven't had enough time to really know.  I currently have some improvement, but the real results (if it occurs) won't be known until the end of 2018, age 55. 
Assigned male at birth 1963.  Decided I wanted to be a girl in 1971.  Laser 2014-16, electrolysis 2015-17, HRT 7/2017, GCS 1/2018, VFS 3/2018, FFS 5/2018, Labiaplasty & BA 7/2018. 
  •  

OU812

Quote from: cicilia on May 13, 2018, 05:26:36 PM
If you scroll down about 2/3 of the way on this following web page you can see a table showing all of them with details:
http://us.yesonvc.com/page/2_4_1.php

To be clear, Yeson is nothing if not focused on international marketing, and there's really no generally accepted consensus on how some of the procedures in his own table ought to be differentiated. What you basically have is a group monopoly with each doctor trying to hype their own version of the same product and in some cases put down those of their competition.

Any of the major voice surgeons could potentially give you an outstanding voice, but I really dislike the idea so often promoted on this forum that Yeson is some kind of gold standard just because they were the first (they weren't) and have techniques nobody else uses (all of them do). They all have very good outcome cases! They also all have outcome cases that are not so great. They all do.

As far as amount of experience (iteration) and track record of results, I'd place Dr. Kim and Dr. Haben on the highest tier. After that would probably come Dr. Remacle, who does good work but isn't as well known, followed by Dr. Thomas (only his recent, more advanced techniques) and Dr. Spiegel (not as experienced, not a voice specialist). Again these are just the most well-known surgeons. There are others doing experimental work that we haven't heard much of yet, who may very well eclipse all of them in the next 5-10 years (ex. the Radiesse specialist in Toronto).

There are a lot of factors that could implore you to choose one over any other.
  •