Can one be a gay man with a vagina? A lesbian with a penis?

[Nero]

*Note: This is in no way meant to be homophobic. I've no wish to be misinterpreted as such.*


Good morning guys and dolls.

Even after masectomy and T, can a transman who likes men really be a gay man?

Can a pre-op transwoman liking women really be a lesbian?

Gender and anatomy are two different things, but isn't sexual orientation defined by the sex organs? At least in our society?

[Berliegh]

*Note: This is in no way meant to be homophobic. I've no wish to be misinterpreted as such.*


Good morning guys and dolls.

Even after masectomy and T, can a transman who likes men really be a gay man?

Can a pre-op transwoman liking women really be a lesbian?

Gender and anatomy are two different things, but isn't sexual orientation defined by the sex organs? At least in our society?

I object to your 'transwoman' and 'transman' terminology .......not everyone likes these terms and phrases....please respect others feelings while posting on the forum....

[Ayana]

  In our society, yes. But as we have all noticed, our society has a tendancy to over-simplify a subject just so they can place it within their realm of understanding.
  Personally, I say yes, on both counts. I don't see why physical form has to affect sexual attraction in every case. The standard animal/Darwinian rules of proliferation of the species do not neccesarily apply to the human race. We have proliferated quite enough thank you.
  I think that people are attracted to certain attributes, be it physical, mental or even spiritual and that which ones 'turn us on' are highly individual in nature and cannot be typified.
  Just my opinion though.

  Ayana   

[Caroline]

Even after masectomy and T, can a transman who likes men really be a gay man?

Can a pre-op transwoman liking women really be a lesbian?

If you'll permit me to answer with another question:

If a cisgendered female really enjoys using strap-ons on female partners is she straight?

A transsexual male who hasn't had genital surgery is perfectly well equipped for gay sex, at least one way around anyway 

Society might define sexual orientation by the sex organs, but it also considers anatomical sex and gender to always align.  I think we of all people should know that transgendered people are a special case and that societies generalisations don't always apply to us.

[Lisbeth]

Gender and anatomy are two different things, but isn't sexual orientation defined by the sex organs? At least in our society?

The problem with "gay" and "lesbian," as with "heterosexual," is that they are relative terms rather than absolute.  They indicate your affectional preference "relative" to your gender or sex.  And since "gender" and "sex" are distinct categories, the referent is ill defined.  Society insists that using biological "sex" as the referent for sexual orientation is correct.  But unconsciously, most people use "gender identity" as the referent for orientation.  At least when researchers ask questions about affectional orientation, they should use absolute terms to remove ambiguity.  Thus, they should ask if you are "androphilic" or "gynophilic."

[Shana A]

Even after masectomy and T, can a transman who likes men really be a gay man?

Can a pre-op transwoman liking women really be a lesbian?

Gender and anatomy are two different things, but isn't sexual orientation defined by the sex organs? At least in our society?

A trans person is not defined only by their physical sex, thus a pre-op TS person could be lesbian or gay male identified.

y2g

[Nero]

*Note: This is in no way meant to be homophobic. I've no wish to be misinterpreted as such.*


Good morning guys and dolls.

Even after masectomy and T, can a transman who likes men really be a gay man?

Can a pre-op transwoman liking women really be a lesbian?

Gender and anatomy are two different things, but isn't sexual orientation defined by the sex organs? At least in our society?

I object to your 'transwoman' and 'transman' terminology .......not everyone likes these terms and phrases....please respect others feelings while posting on the forum....

Berleigh, I understand what you're saying. I'm a man, not a 'transman', but these terms are used for clarity, nothing more.

[Veronica Secret]

*Note: This is in no way meant to be homophobic. I've no wish to be misinterpreted as such.*


Good morning guys and dolls.

Even after masectomy and T, can a transman who likes men really be a gay man?

Can a pre-op transwoman liking women really be a lesbian?

Gender and anatomy are two different things, but isn't sexual orientation defined by the sex organs? At least in our society?

I object to your 'transwoman' and 'transman' terminology .......not everyone likes these terms and phrases....please respect others feelings while posting on the forum....

That is an accepted terminology coined, I believe, by Julie Serano, although it is two words, trans woman, in my case. I like the term and so do a lot of other trans men and trans women, so you might just have to get used to it. Of course, yeah, I am just a woman.

Posted on: December 21, 2007, 02:53:23 PM

It does seem like a riddle,

I've always liked women, so logically after transition I considered myself a lesbian.
After I got used to the strange sound of that, I realized that even as a man, I had been a lesbian.
I never liked coitus, never even liked receiving.  I was always "stone butch" except for the butch part.
I think with SRS I could get rid of the stone part, too.

Renate

Pre-op, I had lesbian relationships. My non-op FtM friend who liked men didn't have much luck in attracting gay men. Most men are genitally focused. FtMs who like women have the easiest time, pre-op wise, it would appear. I could really dig a FtM actually. I am like a 4 or 5 on the Kinsey scale, meaning I prefer other women.

[Wing Walker]

Is this another one of your trick questions?

Yep, thought so! Discussion DEAD. CLOSE THREAD!  >

Nice to be incontestably right for once! 

I second that motion, to close this thread.

Wing Walker

[tinkerbell]

*Note: This is in no way meant to be homophobic. I've no wish to be misinterpreted as such.*


Good morning guys and dolls.

Even after masectomy and T, can a transman who likes men really be a gay man?

Yes.

Can a pre-op transwoman liking women really be a lesbian?

Yes

Gender and anatomy are two different things, but isn't sexual orientation defined by the sex organs? At least in our society?

Sexual orientation is defined by the erotic attraction towards a man or a woman.  Is a pre-op transsexual woman a man or a woman?  is a pre-op transsexual man a woman or a man?  This is about gender/identity not about what we have between our legs, at least not in this community.

tink

[cjennyb]

I have been participating in this forum for nigh on 2 weeks now.  Not a long time by some peoples reckoning. I have to say that I was at first confused, then elated when I began to gain some understanding, but now I am annoyed that there is still such consternation about 'labels'. 

I earnestly sought out a label to describe my condition, my problem, only to find that definition change overnight.  I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that labels suck.  Maybe it is an easy way to communicate stuff but it is almost as bad as text abbreviations.  I am already worn out trying to keep up.

Time for me to give up using 'labels', or get some sleep.


:icon_silenced:Jenny

[Christo]

Even after masectomy and T, can a transman who likes men really be a gay man?

Can a pre-op transwoman liking women really be a lesbian?

If you'll permit me to answer with another question:

If a cisgendered female really enjoys using strap-ons on female partners is she straight?

A transsexual male who hasn't had genital surgery is perfectly well equipped for gay sex, at least one way around anyway 

Society might define sexual orientation by the sex organs, but it also considers anatomical sex and gender to always align.  I think we of all people should know that transgendered people are a special case and that societies generalisations don't always apply to us.

*Note: This is in no way meant to be homophobic. I've no wish to be misinterpreted as such.*


Good morning guys and dolls.

Even after masectomy and T, can a transman who likes men really be a gay man?

Yes.

Can a pre-op transwoman liking women really be a lesbian?

Yes

Gender and anatomy are two different things, but isn't sexual orientation defined by the sex organs? At least in our society?

Sexual orientation is defined by the erotic attraction towards a man or a woman.  Is a pre-op transsexual woman a man or a woman?  is a pre-op transsexual man a woman or a man?  This is about gender/identity not about what we have between our legs, at least not in this community.

tink

what andra & tink said

[Patroklos]

A transsexual male who hasn't had genital surgery is perfectly well equipped for gay sex, at least one way around anyway 

As a transsexual gay male I have to say that is completely untrue. A shockingly large number of gay men don't have anal sex at all and not all of us gay transmen are bottoms.

Generally, I am not accepted as a gay guy. Men don't buy it, women don't buy it. Everyone I know gets on my case about it, especially other gay guys.

[Sarah]

OP:
sure.
If your gender is female, and you like girls, then you probably are a lesbian.
If  you like guys, and your gender is male, then you're probably gay.
If you like both regardless, then you are bi, most likely.

As far as organizations or memberships are concerned?

I think "trans" overrides "gay" and "lesbian"

I wouldn't refer to myself as "gay" or "lesbian". Not when I am already use Trans___________, or when the "T" is already apart of GLBTQ, and the community at large.

No need to double label.

If a friend or someone asks me what sex I prefer for physical contact and lovemaking I would say mostly girls, and some guys. I refer to myself as Bi. If I liked guys exclusively, I would just say I was "into guys" and not use the "gay" label as "trans" overrides that in my opinion, and is more explanitory. Sexual preference is a sub issue compared to that. Using "gay" or "lesbian" when you are transgendered is probably only going to lead to confusion, something I personally wish to avoid.