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REGISTERING FOR THE DRAFT

Started by Cassi, March 20, 2018, 05:21:13 PM

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Cassi

This is more for FTM's in the US of A.

So, Federal law will have to be changed I think.  If someone goes from Female to Male with all the bells and whistles, should they be required to register for the Draft?

Sadly, I'm or was a "draft evader" as they would never let me register and I so wanted a draft card.

So, what do you think?
HRT since 1/04/2018
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Jenntrans

I think everyone should have to register for selective service. Men, women, trans men, trans women, gays, lesbians and so on. There are many more MOSs than just Infantry. But the US is a volunteer military country and unless Crap Hits the Fan in a really bad way no one will ever be drafted. Vietnam was the last time anyone was drafted. After 911 people were signing up left and right.

What I worry about is after 16 years and multiple deployments in bad areas, the military is battle weary and fatigued. 16 years and WW2 was from 41 to 45. The Korean Conflict was how many years? M*A*S*H Lasted longer on TV. Vietnam was how long?

It is possible that if something happens they may have to reinstate a draft. That should include everyone. Not everyone has to be on the front lines fighting. It takes a lot more than the Infantry to win a war or battle.
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Kylo

I'm a Brit and I dunno if we have half a military to get drafted into after the budget cuts, even if we were lol.

Sure hope we hurry up and Brexit and avoid that "EU army" crap they're scheming up, though. Smells real fishy to me.

But er.... I think if "equality" means equality then everyone fit enough gets drafted, eh? Men, women, trans men, trans women. Not that I agree with forcing people into it, mind. But that's what real equality would mean.

"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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Cassi

Quote from: Kylo on March 20, 2018, 05:40:38 PM
I'm a Brit and I dunno if we have half a military to get drafted into after the budget cuts, even if we were lol.

Sure hope we hurry up and Brexit and avoid that "EU army" crap they're scheming up, though. Smells real fishy to me.

I can only imagine :)

Israel has the IDF and requires all citizens, male and female to serve.  I think it's two years but they're surrounded by people who want to destroy them.
HRT since 1/04/2018
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Kylo

Makes sense from Israel's perspective. And if I wanted to be an Israeli citizen then I guess I'd be ok with the requirement. Other countries like ours don't have that sense of duty, necessity or cultural cohesion so much so I doubt it'll be happening here soon unless there's some major crisis.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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Cassi

Quote from: Kylo on March 20, 2018, 05:49:23 PM
Makes sense from Israel's perspective. And if I wanted to be an Israeli citizen then I guess I'd be ok with the requirement. Other countries like ours don't have that sense of duty, necessity or cultural cohesion so much so I doubt it'll be happening here soon unless there's some major crisis.

Sadly, the S88T tends to hit the fan every 50 to 100 years.  Technology is a scary thing nowadays too.
HRT since 1/04/2018
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Kylo

Probably because successive generations forget the value fought for, or maybe a serious economic slump will trigger it. When I was a kid I thought we'd learned something from WW1 and 2. Now it looks like a lot of people learned bugger all and we're going to end up going through it all again. Only with drones and robots and possibly nukes.

Why they stopped teaching Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four in school here is anyone's guess. It's more relevant than ever.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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Cassi

Quote from: Kylo on March 20, 2018, 06:05:34 PM
Probably because successive generations forget the value fought for, or maybe a serious economic slump will trigger it. When I was a kid I thought we'd learned something from WW1 and 2. Now it looks like a lot of people learned bugger all and we're going to end up going through it all again. Only with drones and robots and possibly nukes.

Why they stopped teaching Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four in school here is anyone's guess. It's more relevant than ever.

Big Brother and Room 22 wasn't?!  I never read the book but we had the play in junior high school and I saw a number of movie makes of it.

People have very very very short attention spans.  And what screws up politics here as far as I'm concerned is a terrible politician can screw up badly and wait a few years and a new generation of voters comes in with no idea of the person's track-record.
HRT since 1/04/2018
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Devlyn

Quote from: Cassi on March 20, 2018, 05:21:13 PM
This is more for FTM's in the US of A.

So, Federal law will have to be changed I think.  If someone goes from Female to Male with all the bells and whistles, should they be required to register for the Draft?

Sadly, I'm or was a "draft evader" as they would never let me register and I so wanted a draft card.

So, what do you think?

They are required to register with selective service if over the age of 18. What law needs changing?
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Cassi

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on March 20, 2018, 06:26:55 PM
They are required to register with selective service if over the age of 18. What law needs changing?
https://www.susans.org/forums/Smileys/susans/kiss.gif
It was more of a question than a statement, or rather it was my intent.  Point being, let's say I was born a girl but was allowed to be a boy growing up and given the necessary medical treatment to be a male, would I be required to register for the draft when I turn 18? 

Hypothetical (wow I speeled it right) question.
HRT since 1/04/2018
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Devlyn

Of course, male is male and all males must register.
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Cassi

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on March 20, 2018, 06:32:14 PM
Of course, male is male and all males must register.

I never registered because I was in before 18.  And my question wasn't a trick one and I hadn't googled it to now.  So, I'm pasting what the Selective Service says:

THE SELECTIVE SERVICE

American citizens and resident aliens aged eighteen through twenty-five who were assigned male at birth are required to register with the Selective Service System. This registration is used to keep an updated database of potential service members in case a draft were to be reintroduced. As it stands, all citizens whose birth assigned sex was male must register within thirty days of their eighteenth birthday. Failure to do so is punishable by up to five years in prison and $250,000 in fines, though individuals have rarely been prosecuted. Applications for federal financial aid for higher education, federal employment, United States citizenship and other government benefits have been made contingent upon Selective Service registration in order to encourage compliance. Therefore, when applying for government benefits, transgender people can often face particular difficulties in regards to their Selective Service registration status.

This now poses the question just the opposite of what it was.  I was born a boy but am a transgender woman and have completed all SRS, etc., And I'm 20 years old.  What happens to me in regards to the law?
HRT since 1/04/2018
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Devlyn

Okay, I'll stand corrected, it did not say that the last time I was on their site. The language has apparently been amended.

Hugs, Devlyn
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Cassi

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on March 20, 2018, 06:37:28 PM
Okay, I'll stand corrected, it did not say that the last time I was on their site. The language has apparently been amended.

Hugs, Devlyn

No prob, sometimes I say things like the Columbo.  Don't make much sense at the beginning, but hopefully does at the end. :)
HRT since 1/04/2018
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Devlyn

Can you show us where you got that? I'm looking at a different wording on the selective service site that doesn't include "assigned male at birth"

Hugs, Devlyn
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Cassi

Here's the rest of it:

FOR FEMALE TO MALE (FTM) INDIVIDUALS

People who were assigned female at birth are not required to register with the Selective Service regardless of their current gender or transition status. When applying for federal financial aid, grants, and loans as a man, however, you may be asked to prove that you are exempt. To request a Status Information Letter (SIL) that shows you are exempt, you can either download an SIL request form from the Selective Service website (http://www.sss.gov/PDFs/SilForm_Instructions.pdf) or call them at 1-888-655-1825. This service is free and the exemption letter you will receive does not specify why you are exempt so it will not force you to out yourself in any other application process. The Selective Service does, however, require a copy of your birth certificate showing your birth-assigned sex. If the sex on your birth certificate has been changed, attach any documentation you have to that affect. Once you receive your Status Information Letter, keep it in your files. For those FTM people who transition before their eighteenth birthdays and change their birth certificates, it is also possible to register with the service. However, no one may register after their twenty-sixth birthday. Also, please note that although Selective Service materials refer to transgender people as "people who have had a sex change," their policies apply to those who have transitioned regardless of surgical history.

FOR MALE TO FEMALE (MTF) INDIVIDUALS

People who were assigned male at birth are required to register with the Selective Service within thirty days of their eighteenth birthday. This includes those who may have transitioned before or since then. The Selective Service uses Social Security and other databases to determine who they believe was assigned male at birth. As of now, it is unclear whether transgender people are eligible for military service, but you are required to register nonetheless, and this is necessary to gain access to certain government benefits.


NAME CHANGES AND THE SELECTIVE SERVICE

People who are assigned male at birth and who are required to register are also required to inform the Selective Service of any legal name change or change in other record information such as address up until your twenty-sixth birthday. This does not include change of gender as the Selective Service policy is entirely based on birth-assigned sex. For transwomen and others who were assigned male at birth and have registered with the Selective Service, notification of a name change is legally required within ten days.

To update your records, fill out the Change Of Information Form attached to the Registration Acknowledgement Card with your new name. Alternatively, you can fill out a Change of Information Form called SSS Form 2, which you can obtain at any United States Post Office or U.S. Embassy or Consulate abroad. You may also change your information with the Selective Service by letter. In the letter, include your full name, Social Security Number, Selective Service Number, date of birth, current mailing address and new name. With any of these three methods, you must attach official documentation of your name change and mail it to the Selective Service. Updates take four to six weeks, after which you will be mailed a new acknowledgement card.

People who are required to register:

    All U.S. citizens assigned male at birth (including transwomen) and born after December 31, 1959, who are 18 but not yet 26 years old
    National Guardsmen and Reservists not on active duty
    Cadets at the Merchant Marine Academy
    Delayed Entry Program enlistees
    ROTC Students
    People who have left Active Military Service for any reason before age 26
    Men rejected for enlistment for any reason before age 26
    Civil Air Patrol members
    Immigrants with permanent resident status
    Immigrants with I-688 special (seasonal) agricultural worker status
    Refugee and parolee immigrants and immigrants seeking asylum
    Undocumented immigrants
    Dual national U.S. citizens
    People with disabilities who spend time in public with or without assistance
    Residents of Puerto Rico, Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and Northern Mariana Islands Citizens of American Samoa, Republic of the Marshall Islands and the Federated States of Micronesia only if they are habitual residents of the United States (habitual residency is presumed when one resides in the United States for more than one year in any status, except as a student or employee of the government of his homeland)

HRT since 1/04/2018
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Cassi

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on March 20, 2018, 06:42:57 PM
Can you show us where you got that? I'm looking at a different wording on the selective service site that doesn't include "assigned male at birth"

Hugs, Devlyn

https://transequality.org/issues/resources/selective-service-and-transgender-people
HRT since 1/04/2018
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Cassi

The point I was trying to make in a roundabout way is that if I was born male and raised to "my" gender of being female, according to what I read, I would still be required to register for the draft or face that very large fine. 

To me, the law in itself either needs to be changed, or preferably transgender persons of either sex be allowed to serve without the BS that's currently going on.

HRT since 1/04/2018
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Devlyn

I'm more than happy to admit I'm wrong,  but it appears that is what the writers on Transequality say, but it isn't what Selective Service says. We need to present the facts clearly for our members. Here's the Selective Service link.

https://www.sss.gov
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Cassi

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on March 20, 2018, 06:51:59 PM
I'm more than happy to admit I'm wrong,  but it appears that is what the writers on Transequality say, but it isn't what Selective Service says. We need to present the facts clearly for our members. Here's the Selective Service link.

https://www.sss.gov
TRANSGENDER PEOPLE

Individuals who are born female and changed their gender to male are not required to register. U.S. citizens or immigrants who are born male and changed their gender to female are still required to register.

OPM notes that "transgender" refers to people whose gender identity and/or expression is different from the sex assigned to them at birth (e.g. the sex listed on an original birth certificate). The OPM Guidance further explains that the term "transgender woman" typically is used to refer to someone who was assigned the male sex at birth but who identifies as a female. Likewise, OPM provides that the term "transgender man" typically is used to refer to someone who was assigned the female sex at birth but who identifies as male.

NOTE: Transgender students are welcome to contact Selective Service regarding their registration requirements if they are unclear about how they should answer Question 21 or Question 22 on the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA), or need a status information letter from Selective Service that clarifies whether or not they are exempt from the registration requirement. This can be done by calling our Registration Information Office on 1-888-655-1825. Individuals who have changed their gender to male will be asked to complete a request form for a status information letter and provide a copy of their birth certificate. One exemption letter may be used in multiple school financial aid processes.

This info came from:
https://www.sss.gov/Registration-Info/Who-Registration
HRT since 1/04/2018
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