"HRT" options for non-binary? (and my intro!)

[Linde]

@ AJ, this study is pretty old, and the conclusions and groupings seem to be pretty flawed to me.  After I read the grouping (G1 - G3), I initially considered myself to be G1, but I found many traits described in G3 to be fitting for me.
Either the grouping needs to be more detailed, i. e. , more groups, or forget the entire stuff and not put labels on people!

I am well educated and reached a pretty high academic level and also job level, and that is supposed to be G3, but I also have always had a very feminin body, and transition was kind like super easy for me.  I went from fully male to fully female in a few weeks time only (I had breasts at that time already, without knowing anything about HRT), which would put me clearly into G1.

Because of this, I would not put to much weight on this article, it seems that somebody needed to publish again!

[AJ]

Wow AJ,

You are doing so well.
I felt I had little hope and stayed completely in the closet.  But then for health reasons I began losing weight.  I had forgotten that some say that is important for looking feminine.  Well, I feel better and have got some hope back.  I cannot wait to reach my goal, say by mid summer.
You didn't mention mental changes on HRT.  Did you get more emotional and empathetic?  Did some of your interests change?  Sorry for asking, but this is an important part in my decision.


Cheering you,

Lauren

Lauren,
Yes, I did have mental changes and I am still evolving.
After shutting down the testosterone, my biggest relief was in having a reduced sex drive.
I hoped for it - but when it happened, it was very surprising to me how much relief it offered.
I always hated that male drive as it overwhelmed me, it was very hard to control.
I found that after a year my drive was still there, but it is different somehow.
I am different from before because now, "I" am in control.
It is hard to explain but sex has become a situation of not having that drive telling me "I need" it.
Now, I control if I want intimacy or sex because my drive is female driven.
When I started HRT, I feared becoming sexless but that didn't happen, it's just different now.
Yesterday, my doctor told me that my hormone balance is like that of a normal cis-woman and it has been that way for about a year now even though I have been on hormones since December of 2017.
With the orchie now in play, we will need to more closely monitor my hormone levels through blood tests to keep those levels balanced.
As Dietland states "this study (Vitale) is pretty old" and some of the terminology is dated, but I needed to read her article as it somehow validated the way I was thinking.
When I read it, I was so relieved to know that others felt like I did.
I wrote to Dr. Vitali thanking her for the article and she responded a week later in a very kind way.
Older articles are just that, time either proves or disproves them but for me it validated my life experiences.
I do know that the very week I found a therapist who actually understood my dysphoria, was at a time period of my life where I was going to end it all.
I knew back in 2007 that I was transgender, but I couldn't live full-time as a woman in order to qualify to get on HRT.
With rule changes, hope and HRT, everything changed.
Now I am my own person, I am on estradiol, the nuts that drove me nuts are gone, my hormone levels are "cis" levels, and I love my life.
I now live with a mind that seems to be quicker and more sensitive to life, but I don't feel so emotional that I cannot control it.
I no longer think about hurting myself or ending it all or hating myself or my body.
The world now views me with longer hair, softer skin, less weight and baggy clothes and I no longer care what they think because I am validated within myself.
I see and feel the physical and mental sides of me as finally being balanced with who I need to be.
Losing all that weight and exercising makes me feel like I am 30 again and with the added strength and endurance, my balance and agility is back.
I no longer need validation from the world so only my wife and I see the hidden physical changes, it is nobody's business but ours, and we seem closer than ever.
And, I know how lucky I am for her to stay with me...
Hugs!
AJ

[GordonG]

Lauren,
Yes, I did have mental changes and I am still evolving.
After shutting down the testosterone, my biggest relief was in having a reduced sex drive.
I hoped for it - but when it happened, it was very surprising to me how much relief it offered.
I always hated that male drive as it overwhelmed me, it was very hard to control.
I found that after a year my drive was still there, but it is different somehow.
I am different from before because now, "I" am in control.
It is hard to explain but sex has become a situation of not having that drive telling me "I need" it.
Now, I control if I want intimacy or sex because my drive is female driven.
When I started HRT, I feared becoming sexless but that didn't happen, it's just different now.
Yesterday, my doctor told me that my hormone balance is like that of a normal cis-woman and it has been that way for about a year now even though I have been on hormones since December of 2017.
With the orchie now in play, we will need to more closely monitor my hormone levels through blood tests to keep those levels balanced.
As Dietland states "this study (Vitale) is pretty old" and some of the terminology is dated, but I needed to read her article as it somehow validated the way I was thinking.
When I read it, I was so relieved to know that others felt like I did.
I wrote to Dr. Vitali thanking her for the article and she responded a week later in a very kind way.
Older articles are just that, time either proves or disproves them but for me it validated my life experiences.
I do know that the very week I found a therapist who actually understood my dysphoria, was at a time period of my life where I was going to end it all.
I knew back in 2007 that I was transgender, but I couldn't live full-time as a woman in order to qualify to get on HRT.
With rule changes, hope and HRT, everything changed.
Now I am my own person, I am on estradiol, the nuts that drove me nuts are gone, my hormone levels are "cis" levels, and I love my life.
I now live with a mind that seems to be quicker and more sensitive to life, but I don't feel so emotional that I cannot control it.
I no longer think about hurting myself or ending it all or hating myself or my body.
The world now views me with longer hair, softer skin, less weight and baggy clothes and I no longer care what they think because I am validated within myself.
I see and feel the physical and mental sides of me as finally being balanced with who I need to be.
Losing all that weight and exercising makes me feel like I am 30 again and with the added strength and endurance, my balance and agility is back.
I no longer need validation from the world so only my wife and I see the hidden physical changes, it is nobody's business but ours, and we seem closer than ever.
And, I know how lucky I am for her to stay with me...
Hugs!
AJ

AJ
What a well written, well thought out post. I could have, well maybe, written some of what you wrote. Probably not as well though. I find it very interesting, still, that a lot of my experiences and thoughts are similar to others who have posted here. This is very important to people, to read about other peoples experiences and to realize that they are not all alone in this world.
Thank you.

[Finding Lauren]

AJ,

I appreciate what you shared greatly. 
More than any other story, yours gives me an option I can imagine for myself, imagine following if I cannot stand the pre HRT head space any longer.  Reaching a dead end is very distressing, and you feel it well ahead of actually reaching it.  Over and over I sense I'm close to blocked, before finding just one more step is possible.
I'm still processing the implications, the possible relief of taking my softening to that stage, and the relief I would feel of not facing full social transition to do it. 


Your kindred spirit,

Lauren

[Drexy/Drex]

Aj indeed your post pin points some of the best effects your experience with the sex drive rings true with me ,
You have articulated the experience well 😊
I really empathize about the control and personalness of your experience

[JamesG]

To bad the OP is apparently gone.

HRT for non-binary/non-transitioning is not easy. I won't say that full-transition dose is "easy" but there is a well established protocol for it. And pretty much its just smothering T with T-blockers and adding as much E as possible.  The interplay between the sex hormones are not simple or linear. E controls female gene expression.  But T controls both male AND a cellular growth. Thus why blood tests and what not.

As an example about a year ago, I went on vacation for just 5 days and forgot my meds. In just those days, between T rebound and the residual E I had,  one of my breasts (but only one... of course) decided to take off and have a growth spurt.  It took about a month to rebalance my hormone levels to get it to knock it off.   And this is at 1/4th the regular maintenance dosage.

[intrigo]

I'm non binary, Born male, i think not necessary hrt,the castration is the solution. i'm male but i hate my sex,i would like living in male clothes, but without male sexdrive, no erections,onestly  i hate my penis and testes, my desire is a pretty vagin, but actually this is impossible,this world see only male and female, not for body  shape, but for cock or pussy thats all.i think we must take can only take the maximum that is offered to us.


taking hormones is not the solution for us, when you take hormones you also take what goes with it, if you don't feel either man or woman, but something in between, or neither, then taking hormones doesn't make sense because, it's the  hormones that determine secondary sexual characteristics, you can take antiandrogens, but at this point, as I said, castration is safer, and some do it by themselves

[AnneK]

Castration, without hormones, is a bad idea, as you will develop osteoporosis.  So, it boils down to your choice, estrogen or testosterone.

[intrigo]

Yes, it is true, but if you take testosterone, you will be more masculine, if you take estrogen, you will be more feminine, there are no solutions, many want to be asexual, the risk after castration is obvious, osteoporosis, but taking antiandrogen brings  at the same result, taking testosterone or estrogen, brings problems like diabetes, heart attack, thrombosis and liver problems.  in the past history we have had castrati or eunuchs that however have had a life even longer and without particular problems, osteoporosis is perhaps the lesser evil.

[AJ]

I had my orchiectomy 4 months ago. I knew going in that since I couldn't and didn't want to live with testosterone that I needed estrogen to protect my mind, bones and other things involved in living a healthy life. I exercise now and eat better, (things I couldn't motivate myself to do before). I love my breasts and the curves but I do not plan on dressing or presenting female. I hide in plain sight and the main question I get is "what are you doing? You look great!" My skin is clearer and softer on my face which makes me look younger. I have lost a lot of muscle so my legs and arms look less younger. All in all I am finally happy and love who I am now.
AJ

[SeptagonScars]

My thinking is that whether a hormonal nonbinary transition is possible or not depends on a lot of things. One factor I'm thinking of is which changes you want. I guess I ended up doing a nonbinary transition although that was not my initial goal, it ended up being my goal down the line. Although I go from afab.

Genderwise I don't really know what I am, but I want for my body to have traits of both sexes, although predominantly female. Mainly I want to keep my genitals as they are and my curvy body shape, to have breasts again, as well as to keep my permanent traits from T like facial hair, deep voice, body hair, etc. Put simply, I like that my body has now gone through both sexes puberties, and I think the result is my face/head appears more male while my body (neck down) appears more female. It's a very comforting result for me, however, and I've never been happier with my body. But just like you OP, I also get a bit uncomfortable being gendered as the other sex (in my case read as a man). Although sometimes I also like it. I just would prefer it wasn't all the time. That is however not entirely within my control. It's alright though, as long as my close friends and family refer to me as female. So the only thing I wanna do medically from here on is breast reconstruction and then I'm hopefully done fiddling with hrt and transitioning.

So, on the hormonal aspect alone: I'm happy with what I ended up doing, which was being on full dose testosterone hrt until I got all or most effects I possibly could get (6 years, the last year I only got very small changes) and then went off it indefinitely; only keeping its permanent effects. Personally I've no interest in my fertility. I'm 30 years old and will happily stay child-free.

However, that I wanted all effects of testosterone may not be common for afab nonbinary people. Also, estrogen hrt for amab doesn't (as far as I understand it) leave as many permanent effects as testosterone hrt for afab does. I'm really not an expert on estrogen hrt though, so I won't say more about it than that, cause I don't wanna unknowingly give misinformation. But yeah, I do understand that it's harder for amab people to achieve androgyny hormonally.

But also, I was lucky that my genetics allowed me to get really thick and full facial hair on testosterone which not everyone who takes it does, that I got the deep and clear voice that I've been very happy with ever since (with the help of some additional voice training though), that I did not go bald, etc. Over all, I was very lucky with that what hrt could give me was what I always wanted and ended up very happy with. My only complaint would be my hairline, but it's not a big deal to me.

Although I did temporarily go through a period of thinking I had regretted my T changes when my dysphoria changed a bunch due to me healing my past traumas a lot last year. But when my panic calmed down I found my love for those traits again, and realised I'd be dysphoric without them, just as I always thought. Figuring out how much of my dysphoria was trauma-based and how much was not, is not an easy nut to crack. But I feel I've now gotten very close to knowing which was what.

I realised in my detransition that no matter what I ultimately label my gender as, physically I do want and need for my body to be transitioned and androgynous. But of course I'm curious as to why that is, considering how unclear my gender is. I'm probably somewhere along the lines of an androgyne, but just have little to no social dysphoria, but a clear amount body dysphoria. Most of which I've now alleviated, aside from my chest. So yeah it is technically possible to do an nb transition hormonally, but it depends on a lot of factors and not everyone can.