Modern Day Eunuch/Castrato?

[nightingale95]

With the way my body has developed on HRT (going on 3 years), I feel very much that it looks less like that of a biological female and more like eunuch. Very feminine, but androgynously so. My breasts are small and my hips and shoulders are roughly the same width. My limbs are long and my face is feminine. I look angelic in a way... or like a Greek hermaphrodite.

I love my feminine features and I am read as female by others and prefer she pronouns, but will also settle for "they." But I still see biology when I look at myself amd others and I understand that I am not female. I am a male eunuch, but this is something I am ok with, but that doesn't mean I see myself as a man, necessarily, nor a woman.

Idk I'm doing some soul-searching atm. Is there anyone out there who feels similarly?

[Allison S]

I'm no where near as long on hrt as you are but I do see what you mean. It crosses my mind a lot, especially when I compare myself to cis women. It's not always negative for me but it can be. I just think about my build and the size of my face. Hrt will probably soften and feminize everything, but it can't change my build. I do see other women who are taller than me. The women who have bigger builds than me are usually overweight. Even though I have a good sized butt and some hips, I just see my body as andro no matter what. It's just wide overall.

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[justine77]

Hi nightingale95,  I think I have a lot in common with you.  Since about 15 I have ID'ed as androgyne but can easily pass as female, also male but less easily. I have delicate features, no facial hair, a slim build and don't have a male voice.  I have always been that way. However I am also castrated, I lost my testicles in an accident at 23 (over 2 years ago). Although my face is feminine my body is somewhat male, good muscle tone, no breasts or hips, a functional penis but obviously no balls. For the fist year or so I didn't take any hormone replacement and as a consequence became more feminine and lost almost all of my body hair. At the moment I take TRT and can perform as a male if I want to. Although I don't think of myself that way some people would consider me a eunuch. At the moment I would like become more feminine and am looking into taking estrogen, however....  I'm not sure yet as I'm still trying to find out what would happen to the male side of me if I did. I'm attracted to tgirls and androgynous women so I'm a strange case. I may just stay as I am though as I'm perfectly happy with my dual nature.   Justine x

[nightingale95]

Hi nightingale95,  I think I have a lot in common with you.  Since about 15 I have ID'ed as androgyne but can easily pass as female, also male but less easily. I have delicate features, no facial hair, a slim build and don't have a male voice.  I have always been that way. However I am also castrated, I lost my testicles in an accident at 23 (over 2 years ago). Although my face is feminine my body is somewhat male, good muscle tone, no breasts or hips, a functional penis but obviously no balls. For the fist year or so I didn't take any hormone replacement and as a consequence became more feminine and lost almost all of my body hair. At the moment I take TRT and can perform as a male if I want to. Although I don't think of myself that way some people would consider me a eunuch. At the moment I would like become more feminine and am looking into taking estrogen, however....  I'm not sure yet as I'm still trying to find out what would happen to the male side of me if I did. I'm attracted to tgirls and androgynous women so I'm a strange case. I may just stay as I am though as I'm perfectly happy with my dual nature.   Justine x

Wow! I actually very much appreciate hearing this!

Yes I was a feminine adolescent as well and my voice did not drop much, in fact, for a time I was so embarrassed by my physique and tried acting and dressing more masculine. I wanted to be a manly man but some part of me knew it was not in the cards.

I'm chemically castrated and taking estrogen. I intend to have an orchiectomy some day as well.

I am pretty much taken for female in my everyday life and I accept the role because I'd rather not complicate things by trying to use the men's room or he/him pronouns! But internally I know I don't have a womb and I can't bear children and I have a past as a young boy... so things are complicated...

Testosterone felt so awful inside of me though, I never want to have it in me ever again. Woman or not, I'm better off without it!

[BlueJaye]

Wow! I actually very much appreciate hearing this!

Yes I was a feminine adolescent as well and my voice did not drop much, in fact, for a time I was so embarrassed by my physique and tried acting and dressing more masculine. I wanted to be a manly man but some part of me knew it was not in the cards.

I'm chemically castrated and taking estrogen. I intend to have an orchiectomy some day as well.

I am pretty much taken for female in my everyday life and I accept the role because I'd rather not complicate things by trying to use the men's room or he/him pronouns! But internally I know I don't have a womb and I can't bear children and I have a past as a young boy... so things are complicated...

Testosterone felt so awful inside of me though, I never want to have it in me ever again. Woman or not, I'm better off without it!

I have thought a lot about this. Even fully transitioning with surgery and full HRT, I would still be biologically a eunuch with estrogen and potentially larger breasts. But I guess it all really depends on how you define femininity. I don't think most women on here would want to think of themselves in that way, and I really don't want to either. But I see where you're coming from.

[nightingale95]

I have thought a lot about this. Even fully transitioning with surgery and full HRT, I would still be biologically a eunuch with estrogen and potentially larger breasts. But I guess it all really depends on how you define femininity. I don't think most women on here would want to think of themselves in that way, and I really don't want to either. But I see where you're coming from.

I don't see the trans experience being as cut and dry as some do. I mean, I used to, but with time and perspective I've begun to change.

Eunuchs have a rich history and have existed in many cultures as "transcended peoples". Their doesn't seem to be any shame in identifying as such.

The idea has given me some peace of mind and I've created something of a koan to go with it:

"I am male, but I am not a man. I am a woman, but I am not female."

This is the riddle of my life...

[gail123]

Neither fish nor fowl.
That seems to be your non complaint.
Up to date thinking on the subject, as of last week any way, is to belittle the binary nature of MtF or FtM suggesting a more nuanced understanding of sex (not gender) is a healthier way to approach the subject.
Although I don't normally go along with the CW on this I believe it's essentially correct.

[justine77]

Hi,  the way I see it why not have the best of both worlds.  Maybe I've been lucky but I never had the dysphoria experience. When I was younger I was taken for a girl sometimes, but like a tomboy with no breasts and no female bottom. When I was a student my dress style was mostly androgynous or female, I also I liked wearing makeup. This lead to occasional trouble with macho male types but I'm physically quite strong and always stood my ground; when it came to it they got confused and backed down. After castration I became physically a bit more feminine but inside stayed exactly the same. I don't have any problems with the cards that I was dealt. I know some people would say, oh can't be male, no balls, oh can't be female no uterus. Well, I like things exactly as they are and wouldn't change it. I find being androgyne and being able to be either male or for me more usually female gives you a different insight to how things are. A major plus is that you meet a lot more interesting people.   Justine x

[krobinson103]

I've been thinking about that lately. I look and present as female. But I know that there are certain aspects of my body that are not and never will be. However, As time passes I have come to appreciate the true gift being transgender has given me. In reality I am neiher male more female (despite my appearance) and thats ok. I can see the world from a unique perspective and am happy in my own skin.

I'm arranging an orchie for this year sometimes. After that? I may just stop. Its not like whats left down there is very large nor do I wish to use it. I think the way I am is my future and thats ok with me.

[justine77]

Hi Krobinson103,  from my experience (I'm 25, androgyne since 15), I feel I've got to say,  don't do yourself down, you look great,  there's a whole world out there...   Justine x

[christinej78]

I've been thinking about that lately. I look and present as female. But I know that there are certain aspects of my body that are not and never will be. However, As time passes I have come to appreciate the true gift being transgender has given me. In reality I am neiher male more female (despite my appearance) and thats ok. I can see the world from a unique perspective and am happy in my own skin.

I'm arranging an orchie for this year sometimes. After that? I may just stop. Its not like whats left down there is very large nor do I wish to use it. I think the way I am is my future and thats ok with me.

Hi Krobinson,         09 May 2018

I had my orchi 13 April 18; like you, nothing large down there. The empty sack has been shrinking daily, the penis is pretty much the same sans erections, which is welcome; less distraction. This past Monday I had my 2nd post op checkup. The doc said the sack would continue to shrink and retract. My next post op is six months out, November. If it is still hanging around I am going to ask about having it surgically removed. Hope I don't have to resort to that. At this juncture, aside from some limited facial surgery to erase a few years of sagging skin, I do not plan on going any further such as SRS. So I'm a woman with a penis, which I refer to as, my slightly oversize, clitoris and water spout.

Best Always,
Christine

[Tessa James]

Those terms are significantly dated and carry baggage while the evolution of language allows for some personal perspectives that I prefer.  My dysphoria has been greatly reduced and I live with my little shenis quite comfortably after years on HRT.  I had an orchiectomy years ago and my empty sack has also been reduced but certainly not gone.  I kept it in case I changed my mind about GCS.  I have lovely breasts and can appreciate that best of all worlds concept. 

Passing was never a consideration for me and being person who is more obviously transgender allows a liberation and freedom I never knew before.  I am at the the more female end of the spectrum and own that on my ID with all the benefits and protections it may provide such as with TSA and other public functions.

Like being in the middle ground as pan or bisexual, non binary fits more of us than has been appreciated in the past.  We need not feel less than and have every reason to feel a welcome part of the greater trans and queer communities.  Diversity and inclusion is the way to celebrate this reality and reflects the truth so many of us know. 

[christinej78]

Those terms are significantly dated and carry baggage while the evolution of language allows for some personal perspectives that I prefer.

...my little shenis....
.
.

Hi Tessa,                    10 May 2018

I am not here to criticize your post, but to learn. I haven't been in this community but a short time, so I don't know all the terms I read. Sometimes the context supplies an answer, such as "my little Shenis" does, which by the way, I have never heard or seen before; while "Those terms are significantly dated and carry baggage..." doesn't help me to understand what/which terms you are referring to. Any help you can provide will be welcome. Thank you in advance.

Bestr Always,
Christine

PS:
I looked Shenis up on the net; it's a device. Are you talking about a device or are you talking about your penis? Excuse me for seeming naïve in some areas, which I am.

[nightingale95]

Hi Tessa,                    10 May 2018

I am not here to criticize your post, but to learn. I haven't been in this community but a short time, so I don't know all the terms I read. Sometimes the context supplies an answer, such as "my little Shenis" does, which by the way, I have never heard or seen before; while "Those terms are significantly dated and carry baggage..." doesn't help me to understand what/which terms you are referring to. Any help you can provide will be welcome. Thank you in advance.

Bestr Always,
Christine

PS:
I looked Shenis up on the net; it's a device. Are you talking about a device or are you talking about your penis? Excuse me for seeming naïve in some areas, which I am.

I believe she was talking about her genitalia.

And the "outdated" terms she was referring to were eunuch and castrato. But I'll be real, I don't care one way or another if they're "outdated." If a label suits you, I say use it. That's how I feel about the term transsexual which I feel is far more accurate for my experience, being one who is in the process of changing sex. I personally loathe "transgender".

[justine77]

Hi, I believe to be a castrato you would have to be a male castrated before puberty. In my case my testicles were removed at 23 after I had already developed as a male, albeit as an androgynous and somewhat feminine one. For most people I would be considered a eunuch. But it's just a label like all the other labels we have to put up with.

[Tessa James]

Hi Tessa,                    10 May 2018

I am not here to criticize your post, but to learn. I haven't been in this community but a short time, so I don't know all the terms I read. Sometimes the context supplies an answer, such as "my little Shenis" does, which by the way, I have never heard or seen before; while "Those terms are significantly dated and carry baggage..." doesn't help me to understand what/which terms you are referring to. Any help you can provide will be welcome. Thank you in advance.

Bestr Always,
Christine

PS:
I looked Shenis up on the net; it's a device. Are you talking about a device or are you talking about your penis? Excuse me for seeming naïve in some areas, which I am.

Hello Christine and welcome aboard.  I aspire to take no personal offense for any on line commentary and hope to add light vs heat to any topic.  Yes, I was replying directly to the title terms in the post.  Yes, castrato refers to the old practice of orchiectomy used to maintain a childlike soprano voice.  I still sing bass in our Queer Choir here.

I believe it important to respect any persons self definition, pronouns, terms or label as they apply to themselves.  My use of the term shenis is both for light hearted fun and to acknowledge the difference i feel now about what was once my penis.  How others see me or themselves is their perspective to own.   I have no issue with people who use demi-boi, grrl or enby etc.  Yes, we may not be confused about ourselves but we can certainly confuse others   I find that to be true when doing trans 101 presentations.  I remind folks that diversity within our community is huge and there really is no one best representation of transgender or transsexual people.  If we have met but one trans person then we still know only one.

I will point out that the largest voluntary survey to date of people in the USA, who ID as transgender, found over a third of the respondents identified as "non binary".  I find that term to also be cumbersome, negative sounding and anticipate that newer definitions and terms will come our way soon.  We evolve and so does language and understanding and hopefully in progressive directions. 

We all have lots to learn and one reason I stay in touch and drop by the Place occasionally.

[christinej78]

Hello Christine and welcome aboard.  I aspire to take no personal offense for any on line commentary and hope to add light vs heat to any topic.  Yes, I was replying directly to the title terms in the post.  Yes, castrato refers to the old practice of orchiectomy used to maintain a childlike soprano voice.  I still sing bass in our Queer Choir here.

I believe it important to respect any persons self definition, pronouns, terms or label as they apply to themselves.  My use of the term shenis is both for light hearted fun and to acknowledge the difference i feel now about what was once my penis.  How others see me or themselves is their perspective to own.   I have no issue with people who use demi-boi, grrl or enby etc.  Yes, we may not be confused about ourselves but we can certainly confuse others   I find that to be true when doing trans 101 presentations.  I remind folks that diversity within our community is huge and there really is no one best representation of transgender or transsexual people.  If we have met but one trans person then we still know only one.

I will point out that the largest voluntary survey to date of people in the USA, who ID as transgender, found over a third of the respondents identified as "non binary".  I find that term to also be cumbersome, negative sounding and anticipate that newer definitions and terms will come our way soon.  We evolve and so does language and understanding and hopefully in progressive directions. 

We all have lots to learn and one reason I stay in touch and drop by the Place occasionally.

Hi and Thank You Tessa,              11 May 2018

My personal belief is that there are too many terms, some of which seem to intrude on boundaries of others, confusing the whole issue. Frankly, I don't know for certain what the whole issue is called. I just refer to myself as transgender lesbian. I think that's easy enough that the average cis person will understand. Maybe it's "to each their own."

Thanks again.

Best Always,
Christine

[Sabrina99]

Eunuchs have a rich history and have existed in many cultures as "transcended peoples". Their doesn't seem to be any shame in identifying as such.

Is it in India they are called the "third Sex"??

Hi, I believe to be a castrato you would have to be a male castrated before puberty. In my case my testicles were removed at 23 after I had already developed as a male, albeit as an androgynous and somewhat feminine one. For most people I would be considered a eunuch. But it's just a label like all the other labels we have to put up with.

Yes, there probably aren't many of u who were castrated before puberty.  I was always rather feminine looking and had delicate features and a "svelte" figure", and that has made transition easier too.