Gender Dysphoria and being transgender (mtf)

[annaleaver]

Hi,

A question I've considered since starting my transition

I experience gender dysphoria due to parts of my biological makeup (genitals, facial hair, dropped voice etc.) being different to what I know I am/they should be (vagina/breasts etc.), it makes me happy to go out wearing a dress and make-up without judgement as well. Obviously, there are transgirls that are entirely comfortable with their anatomy pre-SRS/pre-hormone treatment, yet experience extreme gender dysphoria due to social norms surrounding clothing, make-up, language etc.

Do you guys make the distinction/is there the need to make the distinction, between the mental experience of being gender dysphoric and being transgendered? To me, I've always considered them to be the same.

Or, what constitutes being transgender for you?

love,

Anastasia

[RobynD]

The two are very different for me. My dysphoria was 80% social. My transition, while it addressed that, i see as a separate set of choices and actions that encompassed all aspects of life, at least to the extent that gender presentation matters in those areas.

[Amaki]

were I can't openly say right now (still pre-hrt) I can say Ive never felt comfortable going out as a man, maybe because I've always seen myself as a women (mentally) I tend to block it out but I only ever go to like the store or work/school I dont do much more.

But I felt I had to post even though I have no true answer sorry

[KathyLauren]

I do make a distinction between being transgender and having dysphoria. 

To me, transgender denotes having a gender identity different from what one was assigned at birth.  By that definition, transgender is a yes-no thing: you either are or aren't, and it is permanent.  This does not limit the experienced gender identity, which can be binary, non-binary, gender-fluid, or any of the other flavours of trans-ness.  It just means that what you are is different from what the doctor told your parents that you were when you were born.

Having dysphoria is a temporary, or at least variable, condition of dissatisfaction about the various discrepancies that arise from being transgender, such as body dysphoria or social dysphoria.

Dysphoria is treatable to the point where it can disappear completely or partially.  But no amount of treatment will alter the fact that I was assigned an incorrect gender at birth, in other words, that I am transgender.

[MaryT]

The vocabulary keeps growing.  When I was young, psychiatrists divided AMABs who wore women's clothes into ->-bleeped-<-s, who usually dressed for sexual gratification or were deluded catamites, and transsexuals, who really wanted to be women but were usually asexual.  I think that trans psychiatry has become a bit more enlightened since then.

Transgender, and especially gender dysphoria, seem to comparatively recent terms.  I think that if, e.g., an AMAB trans girl were brought up as a girl without ever realising that she was AMAB, she would still be transgender even if she did not suffer from gender dysphoria.

I predict that in the new genderless schools that are being created, even cis children will start to suffer from gender dysphoria.

[Sephirah]

Hi,

A question I've considered since starting my transition

I feel extremely dysphoric about parts of my biological makeup (genitals, facial hair, dropped voice etc.), it makes me happy to go out wearing a dress and make-up without judgement as well. Obviously, there are transgirls that are entirely comfortable with their anatomy pre-SRS/pre-hormone treatment, yet experience extreme dysphoria due to social norms surrounding clothing, make-up, language etc.

Do you guys make the distinction/is there the need to make the distinction, between the mental experience of being dysphoric and being transgendered? To me, I've always considered them to be the same.

Or, what constitutes being transgender for you?

love,

Anastasia

I don't believe that dysphoria has to be a mandatory symptom of being transgender. I've seen too many people dealing with their own journey of being transgender, with little to no dysphoria, and the resolutions they've come to, to accept that this is the case. That the desire for change is more important than the catalyst for that change.

I do think there is a distinction, yes. I think that dysphoria is one possible contributor towards people taking the steps they feel they need to take in order to become who they feel they should be. But I do not think it's the only one. By a long way.

Everyone is different. Everyone has a cocktail of wants, needs, and desires. And understanding the individual is, I feel, more important that putting them into a category. There will be similarities, sure. But I feel that we all walk a woodland trail through life, rather than a highway. And understanding that is the first step towards understanding someone for who they are.

[annaleaver]

I do make a distinction between being transgender and having dysphoria. 

To me, transgender denotes having a gender identity different from what one was assigned at birth.  By that definition, transgender is a yes-no thing: you either are or aren't, and it is permanent.  This does not limit the experienced gender identity, which can be binary, non-binary, gender-fluid, or any of the other flavours of trans-ness.  It just means that what you are is different from what the doctor told your parents that you were when you were born.

Having dysphoria is a temporary, or at least variable, condition of dissatisfaction about the various discrepancies that arise from being transgender, such as body dysphoria or social dysphoria.

Dysphoria is treatable to the point where it can disappear completely or partially.  But no amount of treatment will alter the fact that I was assigned an incorrect gender at birth, in other words, that I am transgender.

That makes sense, but I've had to re-word my question to make it more clear. dysphoria -> gender dysphoria (obviously there are various types)

Anastasia x

[annaleaver]

I don't believe that dysphoria has to be a mandatory symptom of being transgender. I've seen too many people dealing with their own journey of being transgender, with little to no dysphoria, and the resolutions they've come to, to accept that this is the case. That the desire for change is more important than the catalyst for that change.

I do think there is a distinction, yes. I think that dysphoria is one possible contributor towards people taking the steps they feel they need to take in order to become who they feel they should be. But I do not think it's the only one. By a long way.

Everyone is different. Everyone has a cocktail of wants, needs, and desires. And understanding the individual is, I feel, more important that putting them into a category. There will be similarities, sure. But I feel that we all walk a woodland trail through life, rather than a highway. And understanding that is the first step towards understanding someone for who they are.

Reworded original question (slightly) but that makes sense.

[annaleaver]

Dysphoria is treatable to the point where it can disappear completely or partially.  But no amount of treatment will alter the fact that I was assigned an incorrect gender at birth, in other words, that I am transgender.

Does that reduce ->-bleeped-<- to something forced on a community by incompetent (ignorant) doctors?

Asking as someone who experiences a gender identity different to that which she was assigned at birth

[KathyLauren]

That makes sense, but I've had to re-word my question to make it more clear. dysphoria -> gender dysphoria

Yes, that's what I assumed you meant, and that's what I meant.

Does that reduce ->-bleeped-<- to something forced on a community by incompetent (ignorant) doctors?

I don't think it is fair to call doctors incompetent or ignorant.  They are giving the parents what they think is a clear message: "This baby has (or doesn't have) a penis."  That's all they are trying to say.  The ignorance is on the part of society in assuming that genital sex is the same as gender.  It is not, of course.  We cannot expect doctors to know the gender of a newborn.  That won't be apparent for a couple of years at least.  All the doctors are doing is reporting the configuration of the genitals.

[nightingale95]

I do believe there is a distinction.

Those dysphoric with their biological sex I consider transsexuals (this is the category in which I fall). Transsexuals experience varying amounts of intensity as far as dysphoria goes, but their concern is very much with changing their actual sex.

Those who experience social dysphoria only I would call transgender. The old term for this was ->-bleeped-<- (which did not necessarily denote a fetish but is a bit archaic nowadays) or cross-dresser, but we understand that it is much more complex than simply wanting to dress like the opposite sex. These folks feel stifled by gender roles and how they are classified within society. Many of them might undergo medical treatments (minus SRS, typically) because Western culture wants us to be male or female, socially, without variation.

What it boils down to is what are you more concerned about: your body or your clothes?

I could care less if I was forced to wear men's clothes the rest of my life, so long as my body is female (I would be upset if my hair was cut though). Some folks would be upset just to not be able to wear makeup, dresses, etc.

The Harry Benjamin scale I think summarizes it all fairly well. The language could use some updating and the Kinsey scores done away with, but it's a pretty fair description of all the different types of trans* folks out there (well, trans* women-folks that is).

[Dee Marshall]

Things are changing and changing rapidly. It wasn't that long ago that lesbian trans women couldn't get help. Doctors saw treating transgender women as turning homosexual men into straight women. They would never consider turning a "straight man" into a lesbian. Earlier still they wouldn't consider treating someone who wasn't going to come out the other side gorgeous.

Now they see treating us as the only viable way to treat gender dysphoria. Anyone with insuficient dysphoria doesn't get treated. This just leads us to report what they want to hear. People exaggerate their dysphoria in fear of not being trans enough to be helped.

I think we need to look for the best outcome. If someone would live a happier life as a gender other than the one they were assigned at birth then they should transition, dysphoria or not.

If you do have dysphoria you transition and it disappears. (Gods, I HOPE it disappears!)

The spy who came in from the cold in the War Between the Sexes.

[pamelatransuk]

The vocabulary keeps growing.  When I was young, psychiatrists divided AMABs who wore women's clothes into ->-bleeped-<-s, who usually dressed for sexual gratification or were deluded catamites, and transsexuals, who really wanted to be women but were usually asexual.  I think that trans psychiatry has become a bit more enlightened since then.

Transgender, and especially gender dysphoria, seem to comparatively recent terms.  I think that if, e.g., an AMAB trans girl were brought up as a girl without ever realising that she was AMAB, she would still be transgender even if she did not suffer from gender dysphoria.

Things are changing and changing rapidly. It wasn't that long ago that lesbian trans women couldn't get help. Doctors saw treating transgender women as turning homosexual men into straight women. They would never consider turning a "straight man" into a lesbian. Earlier still they wouldn't consider treating someone who wasn't going to come out the other side gorgeous.

Now they see treating us as the only viable way to treat gender dysphoria. Anyone with insuficient dysphoria doesn't get treated. This just leads us to report what they want to hear. People exaggerate their dysphoria in fear of not being trans enough to be helped.

I think we need to look for the best outcome. If someone would live a happier life as a gender other than the one they were assigned at birth then they should transition, dysphoria or not.

If you do have dysphoria you transition and it disappears. (Gods, I HOPE it disappears!)

The spy who came in from the cold in the War Between the Sexes.

Hello Anastasia

Indeed as Mary and Dee have stated, psychiatrists previously divided us into 2 groups; ->-bleeped-<-s for whom clothes was the main prerogative and transsexuals for whom body was the determining factor and usually had to be homosexual or asexual men who wished to be women rather than potential lesbian women.

Fortunately they later came to the correct conclusion that gender identity and sexual orientation are completely different subjects and mainly use the term transgender to describe both the previous 2 categories and also as a umbrella term including others (eg non binary).

It was also previously assumed that the ->-bleeped-<-s outnumbered the transsexuals (certain here in UK). Things are still developing and we all have much to learn.

As for me - I have always known I am transgender, I have always wished to have been a born a little girl but incorrectly thought originally that was an extension of the then term ->-bleeped-<-, then correctly used the term transsexual and now use the term transgender. For me the body is the deciding factor; I have dysphoria over my genitalia and over my body hair and have bodyshaved all my adult life; I have crossdressed all my adult life aswell but that is secondary. I took action and 62 with therapy and have been on HRT 4 months and intending to publicly transition in 2019.

Well said Dee - "If someone would live a happier life as a gender other than the one they were assigned at birth then they should transition, dysphoria or not."

Hugs to all

Pamela

[DustKitten]

My dysphoria's much more physical than social. It's focused more on how I view myself, not on how others view me.

Of course, I've always resented feeling pressured to adhere to certain male stereotypes, too. Over the years, I've also been told by a number of people that some aspect of my behavior is too female for a guy--the way I walk, sit, talk, etc.--so I guess I've subconsciously developed some feminine social traits without being aware of it. It also feels really good when people treat me like a girl (I almost fell in love with a guy once just because he consistently referred to me with female pronouns after he found out I was trans). I've also always felt a little left out of female social circles; about half of my close friends have been women, but I'm never been welcomed in larger female groups like I am in male ones, and that's felt depressing to me sometimes.