stuck in fear for years. can't commit either way. need advice/questions.

[Eve of chaos]

I've been around here on and off for probably 8 years. I've told my story so many times now. the gist of it is this.
in 2008 I really began investigating transiting to be female. it seemed like the answer to what I really wanted in life.

the relationship I was in at the time ended while i was questioning it. I took it as the reason for it ending and stopped for a few years.

after I healed the feelings came back, as they always do. I was 23 now, and I researched again. and experimented. and ultimately decided to transition. did therapy. came out to everyone, changed my social media name ect. 6 months to 1 year. I don't remember much of the specifics, I started HRT. I made it about 3 months on HRT.

overall I went back and forth bieng 100% sure I wanted to transition to feeling some doubts. I always settled on the notion that if unsure whether to stop or go I'd go untill it felt wrong. I thought HRT would give me a giant clear answer of feeling "right" or "wrong"

so many things happened at that time. I didn't make a lot of money. I lost a lot of friends for various reasons. dating was going terrible, and I was unhealthily obsessed with passing. I had some laser and was doing everything right, but still couldn't feel comfortable presenting female without a ton of effort.
I had to go every other day as female to let my beard hair grow out some to get a close enough shave to feel ok going out.

I wasn't feeling or seeing much change with HRT at the time. and a giant fear set in that I was on the precipice of no turning back. I wasn't unhappy. I was very happy. but I was mortified It would never be enough. or that I would feel stuck mid transition forever. I feared I didn't have enough money or support to continue. I was afraid that I cut the dating pool so small for myself I'd end up alone. and it was all amplified by the fact that I didn't feel any different on the hormones. so i was uncertain of what to do.

I tried a more androgynous look. I loved it. but it wasn't long before I just stopped the HRT cold one day. afraid of how unsure I was I told myself "If in a few years you feel its transition or die you can do it then."

I was terrified I would do everything possible in this earthly realm to transition and It wouldn't be enough. It wasn't about beauty, but it was about being able to look at myself and see the female un-questioningly. a stupidly unrealistic expectation.  I was afraid I'd regret it all.

I put it aside and thought about it time to time but overall genuinely felt satisfied with my conclusion. I was open about my experience. looked back on it fondly. and hoped that small window of living and being female would be enough. spent a lot of time dating and thought that was my answer.

fast forward to 2016. I have a Fiance' she knows everything. knows I feel and identify female but chose not to transition. explicitly telling anyone who asked "It wouldn't be enough for me"

one day some of her friends wanted to see pictures. I was feeling very proud of my ability to pass as female back then, so i happily obliged.

I look so different now and hadn't looked at those pictures in so long I didn't recognize myself at all. I saw everything I tried desperately hard to see back then. I felt I looked good, and I loved the way I looked.

instant regret. it took no thought. from that moment till this day I regret stopping. I barely let the Hormones work. its cruel fate that I would feel this way now. I wanted it back. it was like opening the floodgates. it was almost too much for my fiance'. she went back and forth on how she felt. if she needed to leave me so I could do it again. ect.

I flirted with the idea of starting again, didn't really feel as if i could even think about doing it or not though. started therapy again for it. went to a few parties/clubs female. went shopping female. my profile picture I ahve up now is from that time.

I had the same fears. being older now I wasn't sure I had much to hope for. I certainly was going to have a harder time with it all. it was the same fears and doubt holding me back since day 1 amplified by my age.

It wouldn't be enough for me
I was too old

i had a moment of genuine fear and once again put it aside. I felt i settled once again on the fact that I'm better off not doing it.

and that brings us here today. the 4th time I've hit this point where I'm so overwhelmed by the sadness of regret that I'm entertaining the idea once again.

this time there's no real reason for it. it just kind of came back. there are quite a few differences though. namely being I see now this won't ever be settled and go away. no matter what path I take I'll fear I'll regret it one day. and its crippling either direction.

I know it's a lot, I tried to summarize it all while still giving enough info that I could get some advice. I look at that ticker in my forum signature saying I would be well into my 6th year of HRT and feeling so old and that I missed my opportunity.
Idk what it means to be a 30 year old women, even if I could have a perfect transition I feel I missed out on everything. I don't know how to accept that I wasted my youth being scared of this.

I'm still seeing the same therapist. I just need ideas on how to approach things this time. my method of diving in and stopping if it ever starts feeling wrong isn't working. manly because it never feels wrong but I can't stop being scared that it won't ever feel right.

one last question I have is regarding HRT at 30 vs 23. clinically speaking what did I miss out on? what realistic expectations could I have? and most important. since I was on them for 3 months and stopped would that effect my expectations if i decided to start again. like, changes started happening but i stopped them abruptly so are they stunted that way forever or would they pick back up even 6 years later?

thank you to anyone who took the time to read this and leave a Comment of any kind. I take them all to heart very dearly.

[Dena]

There isn't enough information about your motivation for me to get a good grasp on what you feel. The confusion you feel suggest that you should consider the non binary as there are several labels that might match your feelings. What is the non binary? It simply means your not fully male or female but are somewhere between the two extremes. It doesn't rule out a transition because you might be far more female that male. Our WIKI is a good place to check the labels and see if anything matches. If your therapist hasn't worked with the non binary before, you might want to pass this information on as the non binary is relatively new and not all therapist are aware of it. From what I understand, the latest Wpath now covers treatment for both the binary and non binary so that should also be passed on. If you think there might be something to this, let me know and I will see what else I can dig up.

[Ryuichi13]

I am pretty sure that you are never "too old to transition."

I"m 56, going on 57, and even though I'm FTM, the changes are amazing to experience!  There are a few people in my local group that are in their 50s and are MTF that are also going through "second puberty."  They look amazing as well!

So forget that notion that "I'm too old to transition."  Second puberty can happen at ANY age.

Good luck and I hope you discover what it is you need to be happy with yourself.

Ryuichi

[KathyLauren]

but I was mortified It would never be enough. or that I would feel stuck mid transition forever.

So basically, that has become a self-fulfilling prophesy for you.

I can't tell you what you should do.  Only you can decide that, with help from your therapist.  But I can give you some tips.

You know that the dysphoria is never going to go away.  If you don't do something about it, it will always come back.

You are never too old.  You are 30, you said?  Oh, how I wish I had started as young as 30!  I started at 61!  But it is okay, I am mostly passable with a year and a half on HRT.  And I am not even close to the oldest on this forum.  So you have lots of time, with excellent odds of good results.

Don't mistake doubts for feeling wrong.  Everyone has doubts.  After all, we are talking about predicting the future: "Will I be happy?"  It's the future, so it's all guesswork.  Doubts are natural.  Which is very different from feeling that you are on the wrong path.

I always settled on the notion that if unsure whether to stop or go I'd go untill it felt wrong.

That is a good strategy, if you keep in mind that doubts are not the same as feeling wrong.  You terminated your previous transition attempts over doubts.

How to distinguish doubts from wrong?  Yeah, that's a tough one.  Something I think it would be useful to discuss with your therapist.

[Kirsteneklund7]

Eve
I'm sure there's been more than a couple of  people who have suffered the merry go round of uncertainty you describe. I believe  if you have planned around being infertile just get on HRT. This allows you to hedge your bets and be as uncertain as you want. HRT will gently but relentlessly work it's magic. The option to stop is there but you don't have to. You can be on full HRT and not transition or you can transition slow or you can transition fast.
While you think things through you can get on with your life without thinking what if what if. Also HRT will be feminizing your body and mind. You will be reaching physical and emotional potential. In the end you can transition or not but you haven't missed the boat.
This happens to be where I'm at now.
Wishing you the very best with the path you decide.
Kind regards, Kirsten.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Eve of chaos]

I believe  if you have planned around being infertile just get on HRT. This allows you to hedge your bets and be as uncertain as you want. HRT will gently but relentlessly work it's magic.

This is more or less my most appealing option right now. But I was unsure if that was even attainable. Idk if things have changed in the last 6 years but before my only option was a therapists not to start hrt. And I'm not sure if that's possible with how much uncertainty I've expressed in therapy.

Also, it's not the infertility that scares me. I accepted the first time and now I'm probably already infertile. I have no qualms with that. I think it's mostly the breast growth. In the end how o do want that. But only if the rest of me matches. And I was/am afraid that happening and if I. Changed my mind I'd have to hide it. Ect.

Overall it feels I could only do that approach up to that point. It's still appealing though.

Don't mistake doubts for feeling wrong.  Everyone has doubts.  After all, we are talking about predicting the future: "Will I be happy?"  It's the future, so it's all guesswork.  Doubts are natural.  Which is very different from feeling that you are on the wrong path.

That's a good point. It's realu hard to pick out signs of what feels right and what feels wrong. I'm not sure I feel goin either direction feels right or wrong. And that's what's so hard. I feel I'm always grasping at some one or something to give me a clue.

I am pretty sure that you are never "too old to transition."

It's not that I feel too old to transition as much as it is I feel too old to achieve the results that would make me happy. And I either have to lower my expectations and desires or live with it as I am now. Overall it feels like settling.

That and I feel that since I missed out on my youth what's the point? But that's less of a gender issue and more to do with my issues on aging in general.

The confusion you feel suggest that you should consider the non binary as there are several labels that might match your feelings.

It's interesting that you say that. I have thought about this many times. And a few times thought it might be me. When I present female there are very certain aspects of me I can't translate over that I enjoy being male. And the same is true reversed.
But my aversion to being stuck in the middle really seems to negate this for me. It makes me feel split as a person and stuck in limbo. It also makes me feel like I'm pretending if that makes sense. So I don't think non binary is the answer. Although it does lead me to the conclusion that I need to find a way to mix the two into not being something so separate.

[krobinson103]

I started at 43 and have much to lose in terms of family but I'm still 1000% happier transitioning than I ever was existing and pretending. You only get one life. Live it to its potential and go to your end with no regrets.

[Dena]

It's interesting that you say that. I have thought about this many times. And a few times thought it might be me. When I present female there are very certain aspects of me I can't translate over that I enjoy being male. And the same is true reversed.
But my aversion to being stuck in the middle really seems to negate this for me. It makes me feel split as a person and stuck in limbo. It also makes me feel like I'm pretending if that makes sense. So I don't think non binary is the answer. Although it does lead me to the conclusion that I need to find a way to mix the two into not being something so separate.

Before coming to this site I never heard of the non binary as the term wasn't around when I transitioned. The non binary were probably shoe horned into the cross dresser or transvestite categories which most likely didn't describe what many of them felt. I have been working with the non binary on this site for about three years and they are probably the most difficult members I deal with. There is no cookie cutter place for them to fit and each solution needs to be customized to their feeling and they may not be fully aware of what they feel.

If your in the non binary, you would feel one of three things.
1. You don't identify with either gender.
2. You identify with elements of both genders at the same time.
3. Your gender identity unpredictably switches between both genders.

It may be very confusing to you but if you are non binary, your not pretending and it is very real. Where you will end up is something you need to work out with your therapist as you will need to dig pretty deep for an answer.

[Eve of chaos]

Before coming to this site I never heard of the non binary as the term wasn't around when I transitioned. The non binary were probably shoe horned into the cross dresser or transvestite categories which most likely didn't describe what many of them felt. I have been working with the non binary on this site for about three years and they are probably the most difficult members I deal with. There is no cookie cutter place for them to fit and each solution needs to be customized to their feeling and they may not be fully aware of what they feel.

If your in the non binary, you would feel one of three things.
1. You don't identify with either gender.
2. You identify with elements of both genders at the same time.
3. You gender identity unpredictably switches between both genders.

It may be very confusing to you but if you are non binary, your not pretending and it is very real. Where you will end up is something you need to work out with your therapist as you will need to dig pretty deep for an answer.

The fact that all three of those things really feel to fit me makes me wonder...perhaps its worth looking into. I don't think I can grasp it in a clerical sense. I get the idea of it, just not the biological reasoning for it.

[Dena]

I get the idea of it, just not the biological reasoning for it.

I don't think any of the medical community understand the biological reason for it and that may be why it's not well understood in treatment. Where I first encountered it was with a gender fluid/bigender member and I finally had to give up understanding it and just accept it as it is. Bring it up with your therapist in your next session and see if we agree. Your therapist should know far more about this and your personality than I do so you will get a better option there. You might consider printing this thread off and bringing it along for talking points along with the face page of the WiKi link.

[Jessica]

I don't think any of the medical community understand the biological reason for it and that may be why it's not well understood in treatment. Where I first encountered it was with a gender fluid/bigender member and I finally had to give up understanding it and just accept it as it is. Bring it up with your therapist in your next session and see if we agree. Your therapist should know far more about this and your personality than I do so you will get a better option there. You might consider printing this thread off and bringing it along for talking points along with the face page of the WiKi link.

My thought on a possible reason for non binary/gender fluid occurring is external influences subjected to pregnant women, such as drugs, naturally occurring endocrine disrupters, toxins that can make changes to a fetuses brain, feminization to some aspects or not enough masculinization in others.

[Sno]

Oh sweetie, what a conundrum.

As one of Dena's difficult cases firmly in the non binary camp it can be difficult to grasp - it's like the certainty that we are lead to expect of our basic understanding of ourselves isn't there. For some it can come and go, others it's absent, and for more still it's only part way, or a blend. To recognise it takes introspection, and time. Ideally with a supportive therapist along the way.

If you are feeling mostly feminine, then transition may be right for you - we have members who are gender fluid, and transitioned to be able to be comfortable for the majority of time with their internal sense of gender. Where it gets tricky is when our sense of gender matches neither pattern that is common - neutrois, or when we have no sense of gender (agender).

In terms of biology, my belief is that it is an incomplete process, or sets of processes - that we have brains that are effectively intersex, without the external morphological differences that the better know and understood intersex conditions produce. To find a source or reason can feel like searching for needles in a haystack. Who knows.
The fact that we understand a little more about the binary brain formations and implications on gender, and that it is an active area of ongoing research, show that these biological foundations that are poorly understood. Prenatal exposure to DES, by your grandmother could be enough, o possibly even your great grandmother - as they are finding that the diet of tulip bulbs that were commonly eaten in the Netherlands in ww2 have had effects that have been propagated down generations without direct alteration of the DNA, it's a complex subject, where we still know so very little on how our environment actually influences development especially in utero.

I'm sure that @Devlyn will be along soon - she'll tell her own story without a doubt.
The only certainty I can give is a (hug) and support that you're not alone.

Rowan

[Eve of chaos]

Oh sweetie, what a conundrum.

As one of Dena's difficult cases firmly in the non binary camp it can be difficult to grasp - it's like the certainty that we are lead to expect of our basic understanding of ourselves isn't there. For some it can come and go, others it's absent, and for more still it's only part way, or a blend. To recognise it takes introspection, and time. Ideally with a supportive therapist along the way.

If you are feeling mostly feminine, then transition may be right for you - we have members who are gender fluid, and transitioned to be able to be comfortable for the majority of time with their internal sense of gender. Where it gets tricky is when our sense of gender matches neither pattern that is common - neutrois, or when we have no sense of gender (agender).

In terms of biology, my belief is that it is an incomplete process, or sets of processes - that we have brains that are effectively intersex, without the external morphological differences that the better know and understood intersex conditions produce. To find a source or reason can feel like searching for needles in a haystack. Who knows.
The fact that we understand a little more about the binary brain formations and implications on gender, and that it is an active area of ongoing research, show that these biological foundations that are poorly understood. Prenatal exposure to DES, by your grandmother could be enough, o possibly even your great grandmother - as they are finding that the diet of tulip bulbs that were commonly eaten in the Netherlands in ww2 have had effects that have been propagated down generations without direct alteration of the DNA, it's a complex subject, where we still know so very little on how our environment actually influences development especially in utero.

I'm sure that @Devlyn will be along soon - she'll tell her own story without a doubt.
The only certainty I can give is a (hug) and support that you're not alone.

Rowan

Thank you for the insight. it gives me a lot to think about.
lately I have been realizing its really hard, if not impossible, for me to meld the two. I don't know how I feel, or even what I identify with, but i do know I have strong desires to be female, and sometimes I'm completely content being male.

my female self is very different from my male self. and there are some activities, hobbies, ect. I only feel comfortable with doing as one or the other. I'm still not positive if gender fluid is me. I'm not 100% convinced its not shame related. I feel embarrassed of myself to present as female if I don't feel passable. I feel the need to go overboard to be convincing, and therefore am probably not being true to myself.

in essence I feel one should never feel they can or can't do anything because of what Gender they're are identifying with. I'm sure everyone agrees. I've spent the last 6 years trying to accept that and not hold myself back from anything even though I'm in a males body.

no matter what though there's still the shame, and things I enjoy I can't won't do without a female presentation. I'm my own worst enemy.

[Sno]

Hi sweetie.

Firstly, how you feel, and participate in the grand thing called life is ok. You should not be ashamed of who you are. There are certain activities where I am more female, than others - thankfully I'm able to manage without the need to present - otherwise my day would be that of a quick change artist 

If you haven't already, try to find a good gender therapist - they will work with you to find out what is your fear and motives behind the shame.

Some folk are fluid - where their perception of gender ebbs and flows for a given day, or activity, and some are fairly rigidly bi-gender - from your description a neutrois Demi girl description could apply - in most things you're neutral about gender, but for some, you are trans-feminine - but that's venturing into eclectic label land.

Firstly we need to focus on you, and helping you find ways to be comfortable, as you.

Personally, I live with a catch 22, in that I would love to pass as female, at least I may feel like a part of one tribe, but to do so would require surgery, and that triggers my cPTSD.

So, go have a long chat with a professional, to help you understand your thinking and feelings. It is ok to be either, neither or both - and sometimes all three on the same day... it's how you feel, and those feelings are valid.

Take care (hugs)

Rowan

[annaleaver]

It's probably not worth considering what a full transition at 23 could have been like, it's entirely irrelevant to your life and overall happiness now, and going forward. I would take the time to seriously talk over your experience of gender dysphoria with your partner, and your consultant/GP - don't let it become a depression or hindrance to your life otherwise. Besides that, I can't give much more useful advice - it's your journey, not mine.

anastasia x