Meta: Susan Stanton's lonely transformation

[Keira]

Kate, I don't want to deflect this too much; but its more a self-esteem issue than a woman issue.
Though there is some linkage because some women they are less capable than men.
I come from an engineering background and all the female graduate in 1990 found jobs
in the exact same time as their male counterpart in all fields (even computer engineering).
I don't see why it would be worse now. My school was Polytechnique, which had 17% female students
(now its about 35% I think and still slowly climbing) in 1989 when a madman kill
14 women because he felt they took his place
in university. Our engineering school had the hgihest female proportion of any engineering school in
1989 and

The problem with women finding jobs especially in over 35 women, lack of experience and lack
of professional devellopment; though affects more pay scale than ability to get a job. If you compare people of similar skills, they'll both get jobs though there is still a slight discrepancy in pay scale by career's end (5-10%)
which may be linked to males still constituting most upper management position (but this also is changing).

The problem with Susan is that her self-esteem is obviously battered, she's isolated (isolation is one of the MAIN reason transitions fail) and on the job front, she's kind of a hot potato for any job at the level she sought for before. No company or government office wants the kind of media attention that she will bring no matter what her resume is.

What she should probably do is find a job with less public exposure for one year that uses her skills. Something as a senior project manager for example (which are paid handsomely, but have very little public profile). Then, when all the attention has faded slowly move back to a position with more exposure. She could also devellop more confidence in herself by doing so out of the limelight under political pressure.

[Kate]

She's over on Jennifer Boylan's discussion boards, http://jenniferboylan.net/paranormal/, but has only posted an introduction, and I'd be surprised if she posts any others. 

Thanks! A good read, especially her followup posts in the thread. Hate to say I TOLD YOU SO, lol... but...

Good for her. If she can just get through this transitional phase from transsexual to woman, she's going to do JUST fine.

~Kate~

[Audrey]

maybe "not" being followed by CNN might help a little.

[Natasha]

Susan Stanton's lonely transition  - COMMENTARY

http://planetransgender.blogspot.com/2008/01/susan-stantons-lonely-transition.html
by Kelli Busey
01/02/2008

News flash Susan. You think like a bigot in a dress, and I as a hard working transgender woman , please note, WORKING, Americans do not need your approval.

>ouch!  <

[SusanK]

maybe "not" being followed by CNN might help a little.

That's excellent advice and something she should consider, but doing a documentary on her took her approval along with compensation, which may include financial support and paying for surgeries (srs?). So, who then, is to blame for her being a "public" figure, CNN for following her whenever and wherever they want or her for being a partner in the work? What didn't she understand about, "Gee, it's a good opportunity, but I'm not ready for something like this at this time."

I agree with the responses here and elsewhere that indicate she's lonely, and I agree, but I wonder where her therapist and close friends were when she contemplating coming out - which we still have to remember, she wasn't outed, she came out all by herself. Didn't anyone talk with her about this reality?

Obviously, to me at least, her having been a city manager was a very interpersonal job and now without the continuous interaction with people can be daunting and isolating. But she didn't have to agree to be a spokewoman for the HRC and others(?) and agree and promote herself for speaking engagements (see her Website http://www.susanastanton.com/ - note that "a" for the middle name, the real Susan Stanton is a professonal photographer) so early after coming out. When will she recognize that her experience isn't necessarily representative of many if not most (trans)women?

And I for one would like to know why we have to be P.C. and nice to her? We can be critical in a positive and diplomatic way, but do we really need to be so gracious about it? Especially after the tone and words in the article? If she wants to walk into (her choice, she's not being dragged) and stand in the spotiight, she has to understand the consequences, and expressing being hurt isn't an answer, it's an excuse.

I agree she's an excellent example for inclusion in ENDA, and she had the right to testify before Congress. However, how many (trans)women have lost jobs and careers and weren't asked to testify? Because she was a high profile person? And that's better than the many in low to middle income jobs? I don't see where she can be public when it suits her but private when faced with criticism and/or serious questions.

I realize this thread has been pummelled to death, and I'll stop posting my opinion. I'm just a little angry that almost all of us have had the same experience as her but we didn't whine in public and seek more attention to express it. I retired early for my transistion and pursue a hobby turned career with my eyes wide open after five years of preparation with a life coach and therapist. Didn't she think being fired was a reality and didn't prepare for that possibility?

If she wants to be a role model, she should use her experience to get a job in her field to show we're as normal as everyone else. How many (transwomen) have continued in their careers and professions during and after their transistion, even if/when they had to change jobs? She still has a career, far better than most of us, and she still has a good resume. Hasn't she learned her publicity won't help her career or job hunt?

Ok, I'll park the soapbox, I need some breakfast and especially espresso before my synapses starting beating my brain.

--Susan--

[Susan]

I know Natasha didn't post that article so my comments are not directed at her, but at people like Kelli Busey the writer. Look people education is the key with people like Susan Stanton rather than spraying venom. Don't bash, don't slam, just explain, it will work much better in the long run. As we educate Susan, we can also advance the progress of educating the American public.

[tekla]

With one huge caveat - you have to want to learn first. 

[Kate]

What do you think happened to her?

For awhile there, she was THE figurehead for TS Rights and all, speaking everywhere, doing interviews and shows, trying to point out that we're just ordinary people.

Now all the sudden she's given up on everything, thinks she's special and different than the "men in dresses" she met, and so on.

Why the sudden total turn-around?

~Kate~

[NicholeW.]

I think there are times when all of us may get upset about at least one 'man in a dress.'

It becomes easy to think we are special or different. Pain becomes a great equalizer, but only after we begin to see that 'the men in dresses' are not causing my specific pain. The learning curve on that can be a long and shallow one. It has been for me.

N~

[Keira]

I think putting down people is the sign of low self-esteem and internal suffering.
Many of "man in dresses" (tm) live better integrated and happier lives than her,
that must hurt. When you run a big office like she did, you must have an
good ego, and hers has been deflated quite a bit by this.

This is a humbling experience and her ego needs to be pulled down a few peg
so she walks on earth.

[Sheila]

I agree that education is something that is needed. How do we educate people who do not want it. I held forums and discussions with city people and was out to everyone. I had publicly said that if you want to ask me any questions I will find the answers if I didn't know them. I just needed to know what the questions were. For five years I tried to educate my Human Rights Commission, which I was a part of, and they all said they understood and that they were educating themselves in their own way. I had the history of trans people, books, articles even webpages that could be pulled up. I had everything in their hands. When it came down to the vote to put gender identity into our city ordinance, they voted it down. They needed more education. You can give these eduacated people the books, pencils and everything that is needed to learn and if they don't want to, well, it is lost. If Susan Stanton thinks transgender people don't work and they are all guys in dresses, have her look in the mirror. I happen to not think this way. I feel we are a cross section of society. We have our over achievers and under achievers. We have our pretties and our uglies. We have everything in between too. We are people and we are part of society. We are first class citizens in every sense of the word.
Sheila

[Susan]

If nothing else works, you must change the world one person at a time.

[tekla]

I doubt if there was a turn around.  I think you have two deals at work here.  One, she became a figurehead/spokesperson - not by working her way up the ranks by working in the trenches, but because CNN made her one.  Second, there is a pretty clear indication that here politics (conservative by her own admission) did not match her chosen lifestyle.  Witness her surprise when her views were not well received.  Most public advocacy groups for trans persons strive for inclusiveness.  She proposes, and then promotes, elitism.   

Or the statement:
"I was totally unprepared for the reaction and rejection of almost everyone who'd been close to me," Susan says. "People I'd known for 20 years won't even talk to me."

Ten minutes reading posts on this (or many other) boards would have informed her (prepared her) that such rejection was a pretty distinct possibility - if not the most likely outcome.

But Kate, you asked me on the other thread why I would not want to meet her, and this is why.

Throughout the interview she came off to me as someone who expected to keep the privilege and not have to pay any price for her decisions.  (and by privilege, I mean it in the root of the word, which is literally a "private law" or law relating to a specific individual.)  She thought her ex-wife should now be her best GF, and again, a few moments reading real life accounts might have put that idea in doubt.

But the one that really bothers me is the implication that the only work of 'value' is not being the boss, and making $200K a year (in fact, her last salary was $140K).  And that is pretty insulting to all the people (a vast majority by the way) who are not making that kind of money. 

You know what, far from her 'life being over' (and that's drama queen city to say it like that) perhaps the very best thing for Susan is to spend a year or two as a janitor, or a waitress.  I'm sure she would find, as many in this country do day in and day out, that she would not have to give up her 16 hour days, working for minimum wage almost forces you to work that much just to be able to afford some crummy room and Kraft dinners.

On the other hand, as many of us who do it know & like Morgan Freeman said in Bruce Almighty:

Nothin' wrong with rollin' up your sleeves, son.  People underestimate the benefits of good old fashioned manual labor.  There's a freedom to it.  Happiest people in the world stink like hell at the end of the day.

[NicholeW.]

There's definitely some sense of privilege she has expressed from the get-go.

I recall her being quoted in the St. Pete Times for the story that outed her that she was shocked they had found out (the paper that is.) Yet she also extolled her own administrative style as being 'on top of everything.' Got the sense she was something of an autocrat who wasn't particularly accepting of other's mistakes.

Experience tells me that such bosses may be really, really good ones in a lot of ways, but they don't inspire deep loyalty from most.

She had told her staff what she was going to do and then seemed shocked someone had called the papers. Just didn't seem very realistic for a person who was supposed to be that, realistic, that is.

We all have those learning curves when we start this process. I have thought her expectation of the way she should be treated and what this meant was most naive. But, I also think she shouldn't just be rejected and have her face rubbed in her mistakes.

To learn she is going to have to incorporate those mistakes and try to find ways to change them. Like most of us, she probably will have a hard time saying she was mistaken in her notions, her tactics, etc. First off, she has almost no experience I have found that she has ever done that in her previous life.

I don't think she or anyone else 'deserves' to be a pariah, though. All that teaches anyone is bitterness and despair. I've never noticed too many folks who have had a serious lack in that regard.

I think some compassionate and understanding education and experience is a great idea, both for the student and for the would-be teachers.

N~

[Kate]

This is a humbling experience and her ego needs to be pulled down a few peg
so she walks on earth.

Exactly what I was thinking... what you and Tekla have said. And why I say I don't know if she's gonna make it, because IMHO on top of all the other losses, I wonder if she can take losing MALE privilege now? Her ego is being shredded - but only because she won't let go of it. Being a woman in this society IS a humbling experience in many ways. It almost seems like she expected to literally be the same person to everyone, with just different clothes. And it just doesn't work that way.

The "men in dresses" comment was a bit much though. She took all the verbal abuse thrown at her in the beginning and remained such a classy woman, never retaliating... but now insults "her own kind?"

~Kate~

[Annie Social]

My partner Nickie and I have had several dealings with Susan Stanton, and Nickie sent a "Letter to the Editor" at the St. Petersburg Times, the original publisher of this story. I don't know yet if it will be published, but here is the text:

I have never written to the Times before, but here goes. I understand only too well Susan's plight. First, she states that she has no friends. Being Trans is not a choice, but not having friends is. Most of the Trans people I know have lots of close and trusted friends, because they want to. I have personally shown up at nearly every event in Pinellas County where she has spoken, and have spoken out to the City Commission against firing her. She has been invited more than once to become a part of the local trans community, and has always refused.

Second, she states that she is not comfortable around other transgendered people because they appear as men in dresses. Who has she been hanging around with? Most of the Trans women I know do NOT appear as men in dresses. Maybe she's not comfortable with herself, either.

Third, she said she'd end it all if she can't work as a City Manager again. I call that a cop out. I lost a whole career coming out, and I went back to school and got another one, learning to live on a fourth of what I used to make in the meantime. I say, "Get tough, girl".

And fourth, Susan thinks we're not ready for equal rights. How else are we supposed to prove ourselves? Susan may be in the limelight now, but I think it is time for it to stop. She truly does NOT represent the Trans community. I welcome her comments; I would really like to know her agenda.

[tekla]

And remarks like ""I'm not some drag queen in a pink miniskirt with 6-inch heels. And I'm not Aunt Bee."

And (outside of clubs - which are special deals) where exactly is she seeing that?  I don't.  The entire 'men in a dress' is what my friend calls "the privilege of passing" and not everyone has it.  In very PC terms its called "lookism.' 

And I'm not fond of 'bringing people down a peg' but life does that, sometimes with wonderful results.  She has great skill sets I'm sure, and they could be put to work in all sort of other ways.  As Maria von Trapp said several times in her autobiography (the basis for The Sound of Music) - and since she is a person of faith she might take it to heart - "wherever god closes a door he opens a window."

And its not just being a ->-bleeped-<-.  Lots of people find themselves out of work at that age and have to find a new direction.

[Purple Pimp]

I just don't get her at all... it has to be self esteem issues.

Maybe it's the activist in me speaking, but if you're going to be such a public figure, you really owe something to the people who come after you.  She was in a rare position; in most cases, one cannot prove that it was because one was trans that one was fired/not hired.  She clearly had a good lawsuit and could have made a major contribution to the community.  I'm sorry, but she sold out.  Maybe it didn't matter to her, I'm sure she had some serious coin saved from her massive salary.  But many transpeople struggle to find work even at minimum wage, and she could have done something about that.

It has to be a matter of self esteem.

Lia

[Kate]

She clearly had a good lawsuit and could have made a major contribution to the community.

I think her reasoning was that she put her community (local, not TS) above her personal issues... and didn't want to cost the people any more time, publicity or money because of her. I thought that was rather noble of her.

I'm sorry, but she sold out.

She did a LOT before falling into this new cynical point in her life. Countless interviews in papers and television explaining our condition, lobbying, etc. She did what she could until she broke from the strain and loss.

And for all she did, now she's being booed and told she didn't do enough. I know it seems she's turned on the community, but she's in TROUBLE... I wish the community would put aside THEIR pride a bit and help HER now.

~Kate~

[tekla]

I think she has to take the first step and reach out.  I think its hard for any community (no matter how defined) to reach out to someone who says "I'm not like you."