The Aviation Thread

[KathyLauren]

What? You got a problem being stuck in a recycled beer can hurtling along at 500 knots?

Which would you find most scary? Careening onto a thin, short strip runway or blasting to get into the air in the first place?

What's even scarier is being at 33,000' with nothing showing on the airspeed indicator but the maker's name!  (And if that isn't the classic introduction to a "there I was" story, I don't know what is!)

I was teaching a student high-altitude aerobatics.  He was used to pulling 3Gs for the pullup for a normal loop at medium altitude.  I guess he didn't believe me when I said he had to pull to the stall buffet (about 4 Gs) at high altitude.  As we approached the vertical, the airspeed was unwinding way too fast.  I grabbed the stick, but realized that it was too late to prevent a tailslide.  With my eyes glued to the EGT because I feared a compressor stall, I hauled back on the stick as hard as I could.  I didn't care that it would put us in a deep stall, I just wanted the plane to fall onto its back, not its belly.  Which it did, fortunately without a hiccup from the engine.  The nose dropped to vertical-down and we picked up airspeed again as we descended through our own contrail.

Fun times!

[Donica]

What's even scarier is being at 33,000' with nothing showing on the airspeed indicator but the maker's name!  (And if that isn't the classic introduction to a "there I was" story, I don't know what is!)

I was teaching a student high-altitude aerobatics.  He was used to pulling 3Gs for the pullup for a normal loop at medium altitude.  I guess he didn't believe me when I said he had to pull to the stall buffet (about 4 Gs) at high altitude.  As we approached the vertical, the airspeed was unwinding way too fast.  I grabbed the stick, but realized that it was too late to prevent a tailslide.  With my eyes glued to the EGT because I feared a compressor stall, I hauled back on the stick as hard as I could.  I didn't care that it would put us in a deep stall, I just wanted the plane to fall onto its back, not its belly.  Which it did, fortunately without a hiccup from the engine.  The nose dropped to vertical-down and we picked up airspeed again as we descended through our own contrail.

Fun times!

Fun times says you Can you say screaming death dive! No looping around here but I have done well to stay out of those screaming death dives during stall recovery training.

[KatieP]

I was teaching a student high-altitude aerobatics.  ...
Fun times!

KathyLauren, I think your definition of fun is not that close to mine... 

Kate

[Susan Baum]

After reading today's earlier contributions and wishing I had the chance to be in something other than a piston engine I think I need a good cry...

Oh, what have I done? Now it'll be like an itch I have to scratch...

If it had not been for seeing and dropping into this thread, I never would have paid any attention to the small newspaper blurb about an AOPA regional fly-in scheduled at SAF this weekend. Since the airport is not to very far away, I dropped in on Saturday. Saw some old friends and made new ones, drank way too much coffee, gave my arms a doozy of a sunburn, and managed to spend about half an hour in the left front seat of a 172.

Among my old friends, some of whom have been treated more kindly by the years than others, I ran into Richard B, the man who gave me my last check ride. I still remember the fresh faced early-30-something with kids in elementary school and a fresh I ticket looking for students; we've both changed – he's now a grandpa and I sport longer hair, a bra, earrings and a purse. I am not sure who was more surprised.

Long story short, he booked me for an "intro" (should be more like re-into) ride this morning. We flew the pattern a couple of times; I botched the first try at a touch and go in over 20 years but managed to keep it in the pattern and on the runway on the second try. I guess I did remember a bit – he didn't have to yell "right damn rudder" at me once.
He's based at an FBO only a couple of hours away OFR. I have an hour booked for my birthday. Now, where's that danged logbook?

Thank you my friends - you have helped me reopen a door I thought had been sealed for ever.

Susan
edited to fix typogooficul errirs

[Leslie601]

Wow! Great thread. I got to it late because I've been away for a spell.

Where to start: 1963 somewhere in Texas (some of you might know where) TH-55

1965/66 Vietnam UH1 and OH58

1971 till bankruptcy, EAL B727 Did ATP checkride there

1990 flew freight SA226 for Bank of America

1995 moved to NA265 and G3 for Charter company in Cali

2002 flew G4 international part 135 until retiring in 2005.

Wife and I (she an ex flight attendant) formed a 135 charter outfit with two 414s flying divers from palm springs to Catalina island.

Got out in 2007 (how's that for timing) TT 21265.6

Haven't flown PIC since, would love to but probably best for everybody else if I don't - Just don't have the right stuff any more.

Rented a Stearman last year (With pilot) Just to see if I could still fly, just like riding a bicycle. Only bounced a slight amount on landing - not bad for a tail dragger.

Leslie (P.S. I think I've dated myself here)

[KathyLauren]

Thank you my friends - you have helped me reopen a door I thought had been sealed for ever.

YAY!!  I am glad that this thread been a bad good influence on you!

@Leslie601, glad to have you in this thread.  As you can see, we have quite a bit of fun.

[Donica]

Haven't flown PIC since, would love to but probably best for everybody else if I don't - Just don't have the right stuff any more.
Leslie (P.S. I think I've dated myself here)

I'm afraid I fall into that category too Leslie. Nothing as extensive as you. Just SEL PIC here. You didn't date yourself. I think most of us here are of the elderly persuasion.

I'm glad you ladies found this thread.

Hugs,
Donica. 

[KatieP]

Rented a Stearman last year (With pilot) Just to see if I could still fly, just like riding a bicycle. Only bounced a slight amount on landing - not bad for a tail dragger.

An aviation life well-lived!!

And as for "not bad," you were in a Stearman, perhaps the toughest-to-land taildragger built by humans. Great job!!

Kate

[Donica]

That was a Stearmen PT-17 right?

[Leslie601]

Yes, yellow in 1940s paint scheme. I would kill for one but the maintenance, insurance and hanger space these days are just out of sight.

Maybe a Grumman Tiger tho..

Dream on old girl!

L

[Leslie601]

Good story Kathy.

Reminds me of a trip across the rockies in the winter with the jet stream doing all kinds of crazy things. I turned to chat with the FE and heard the airspeed knocker, looked back as the airspeed blasted through red-line, the autopilot disconnected and the nose got very heavy (here comes mach tuck,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_tuck) as the FO and I pulled for all we were worth and yanked the throttles back (We actually bent them!) put out the speed brakes and, at the same time, realizing we were in a 6000 FPM updraft and the autopilot had put in all the nose down trim trying to hold altitude until it gave up and disengaged, leaving us with mach tuck and a full nose down trim. Scary as hell. Anyway, the speed brakes finally did their job as we were trimming aft as fast as the motor would run. Upon recovery, as we wondered if we were going to need a lav trip, the FO said these famous words "You have any blank NASA reports?" Yeah, we did file those that night.

L

[steph2.0]

Ah, those lovely lovely NASA reports!

[KathyLauren]

Anyway, the speed brakes finally did their job as we were trimming aft as fast as the motor would run. Upon recovery, as we wondered if we were going to need a lav trip, the FO said these famous words "You have any blank NASA reports?" Yeah, we did file those that night.

I don't know about NASA reports.  What are they?  Great story!

One nice thing about the Tutor's speed brakes in a situation like that: they produced a strong nose-up trim change all by themselves.  At redline speeds, popping the speed brakes would produce about a 4G pullup without even touching the stick or the trim.  You could almost do a loop with speed brakes alone.  I know because I tried it. 

[Leslie601]

NASA began a voluntary reporting system that, when used properly, acted as a "get out of jail free" card as far as FAA enforcement was concerned. The idea was people would tell the truth and thus the data could be used to further aviation safety. I don't know if it's still around but I used it a few times when incidents such as this or even ATC deviations occurred. If the FAA came after you you could pull the receipt out and as long as the violation wasn't too serious, you were off the hook.

You're right about speed brakes, while the ones on the B727 were completely different than the ones on smaller aircraft (which were usually mounted on the fuselage while large aircraft were wing mounted) I was training in an old N265 Sabreliner (same wings as f-86) and I discovered that if you popped them over the runway because you were too hot you'd get an epic balloon job.

L

[KatieP]

I don't know if it's still around

Yep, it's still around. ( https://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/ ) Almost 8,000 reports per month in 2017, which I would consider pretty well used...

I keep my CFI up to date, and literally last May, it was still part of the CFI recurrent training.

Kate

[steph2.0]

Yep, it's still around. ( https://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/ ) Almost 8,000 reports per month in 2017, which I would consider pretty well used...

I keep my CFI up to date, and literally last May, it was still part of the CFI recurrent training.

Kate

Hmmmm, reallllly? Innnteresting...

I'll keep that in mind when my next biennial comes up. (January 2020)


Stephanie

[steph2.0]

Do you jet jockeys remember this one?




Stephanie

[KathyLauren]

Do you jet jockeys remember this one?

That's weird, the video didn't show in your post.  I extracted the link from the HTML code: https://www.youtube.com/embed/noriLGVL7Qo?rel=0

The incident was a bit before my time, but I do remember reading about it. 

We were always told that, if you have time before you eject, trim nose-down, so the plane would not continue flying.  Probably not necessary in the Tutor, since the canopy produced lift, and without it, the nose would drop anyway.

[Donica]

Wow!!! That is almost unbelievable. And recovering from a flat spin on it's own no less. I wonder how much dirt the turbine snorted in and puked out the back?

[Kylo]

What? You got a problem being stuck in a recycled beer can hurtling along at 500 knots?

Which would you find most scary? Careening onto a thin, short strip runway or blasting to get into the air in the first place?

The climb. Mainly because I've watched videos of fatal problems with both but the nearer the ground with some some lift under the wings the greater the chance of survival, at least in theory. Watching a plane attempt to climb then suffer a cargo shift or something that causes a fatal stall is the stuff of nightmares.

My first flight was also the stuff of nightmares. First the plane required two days of "modification" at the airport in order to get it flight worthy and then when it took off someone forgot to shut the door.  Maybe there's a reason I have aerophobia.