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Time to Reopen Where are All the SOs

Started by Debi, August 16, 2018, 03:42:31 PM

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confusedfairy

Small good moments of the day that the kids creating them probably don't realize mean a lot to me: This is only my second year teaching, and I have a few students from last year that have been coming to visit me regularly.  Others give me big smiles when they see me.  Given the events of late, those kids, plus the friends I've made on these websites have meant a lot to me. 

I guess my next mission will be figuring out how to explain to said kids that I'm getting divorced, if at all- my administration seems to think adults should just portray an eternal smile and a perfect life.  I don't think it's appropriate to give kids detailed accounts of what's going on, but I don't think it's wrong to explain that life happens, and you pick up and move on either.  After all, they may need the example to follow some day. 

With the adults, since I can't tell them the actual story (and they will ask), I've been telling them my husband got picked up by aliens and replaced by a pod person that just doesn't want to be married anymore (maybe I'm repeating myself.)  Somehow, this has been enough to get people to accept my answer without question, and in some cases, I even get a look of total comprehension and understanding!

In other news- today was my baby's first day of preschool!  The note in his bag said he was good and he came back awfully bouncy. 
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Debi

With the adults, since I can't tell them the actual story (and they will ask), I've been telling them my husband got picked up by aliens and replaced by a pod person that just doesn't want to be married anymore (maybe I'm repeating myself.)  Somehow, this has been enough to get people to accept my answer without question, and in some cases, I even get a look of total comprehension and understanding!


Confusedfairy, I love your explanation to the adults in your life who want to know. I don't think it is any stranger of a story then what really is.
Great happiness about your little one's first day of preschool.

Debi
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confusedfairy

Saw some posting to transpeople from a cis-spouse looking to advise them on how to not destroy their marriages on here.  Lots and lots of good advice on there, and thinking about the fact that my spouse showed me articles advising transpeople what to do when coming out (and then promptly ignored almost all of the advice.) 

Having a gloomy day.  Must focus on cuteness and positivity. 

On the cute side:  My son apparently decided he would like to sleep with a pillow at night, so he swiped a pillow off my bed, and tossed it into his crib! (Then demanded to be put in his crib)

And again, the kids probably have no idea how much good they do: I may not feel like I'm a popular teacher, but apparently even some of the more mischievous kids liked me- One visited today in spite of me getting on his case regularly!  Have seen teachers who seem to have every kid in the room on task, well behaved, and never have to lift a finger to get it.  I don't understand how they do it.  Magic perhaps?

Which begs a point of curiosity- for those of you with spouses that are out of the closet- did you tell your coworkers, and if so, how did that work out?
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Debi

In answer to your question, by the time we knew what was going on and Tia came out (she was never really in the closet) we were both retired so our work wasn't effected but we were members of a conservative church and we lost many "friends". We did find a church that is very inclusive and loving and have made new friends. It was a hard period though.

Debi
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Sylvia

Confusedfairy - my partner is NOT out at all, so no one in the world knows, apart from me, his GP and the gender clinic, and a therapist we used in the past.
I actually find keeping it a secret one of the hardest things. I think most people we know would be supportive but he's terrified. He has no plans to go public.
Syl
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Melanie Jean

Sylvia - I can only imagine how difficult it is to keep that secret, but as someone from 'the other side', and this goes for you too, confusedfairy, I would be horrified if my partner outed me!

Please do not take this point lightly. No matter how much you believe the other person to be receptive, empathetic or sympathetic, never ever out anyone, least of all your partner. I'm not saying either of you would, but thought it necessary to give my pov.

Best wishes to both of you.
Love to all.

~Melanie





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confusedfairy

On the subject of outing- at this point there are people in my life that are aware, so I do have folks to talk to. To tell fresh people means explaining all of the standard trans stuff, which seems like it would be a nuisance.  Also, the standard trans stuff had little to do with our marriage dissolving, except for the fact that the personality changes she experienced, and certain events that contributed to our marriage's destruction came about with her coming out.  When I explain to trans people/ allies that my spouse's personality, and priorities changed (some just surfaced more clearly),  when she came out to me, I get comprehension.  They understand that this is not, nor has it really ever been, about her being female now (even if I did have concerns for our sex life.)  With the rest of the world: well, I have an aunt that is aware, and is still under the impression my ex should just 'stop this' and that all would be well again.   

Syl: It's worth having at least one person to talk to!  This is a tremendous amount to withstand without somebody to be able to talk to!  The first months before my family was aware were torture! (And my mom could tell that something was up, even if she couldn't tell what it was.)  Granted, I am in a particularly bad situation here, but I would still imagine having to hold this all in under the best of circumstances would be a lot to handle.  Might be worth talking to your spouse about allowing you a confidante.  Hopefully someone in your lives is transfriendly and can function as your sounding board/ vent buddy. But then, you guys know what became of my marriage.  People who got happy endings: thoughts?   
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Debi

From the beginning Tia and I wanted to have someone besides each other at least praying for us. Even if they didn't know exactly what they were praying about. It helped just knowing that someone was there to lift our name to our Lord when things got tuff. We both chose a friend that knew we were going through crazy times in both our physical and spiritual beings and we would just send a text asking for prayer. Neither friend knew what they were praying for only that we felt a need for it. It helped but I agree with Sylvia that one of the hardest parts of the whole transition were the secrets. I found myself as isolated as my partner had lived all her life. It was a relief to actually open up once she started her transition, even with the fall-out that happened from people who couldn't handle it. With all that said, I also agree with Melanie Jean that it is never right to out someone else even if their story and your story are knotted together.  Has anyone else out their figured out a way around this problem because I do believe that the secrets are one of the things that really harm relationships?

Where or what is your "safe place"? (This was the question I was going to ask in my post for the day but I think it goes along with this thought thread so I'll just add it to this post.)

Debi
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Faith

secrets.  When I started figuring out things, and told Lori, one of the first things I told her was that it was OK to talk to her sister. She is very close to her youngest sister and also I knew she'd be the most accepting (already having friends that transitioned, some no longer with us :( ). I did not even once think she should handle the bomb that was me all by herself. She would have but it wouldn't have been fair to her at all.
I left the door open, only a few came through. such is my life.

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Sylvia

The only 'safe place' I have is a forum I found for wives of TG. It's been a lifesaver as I think it's the only place where my feelings have really been understood. I pm a couple of people on there too, which, again, really helps. And it validates my feelings. I post on here, but I really don't think I get much sympathy from most, to be honest (present company excepted!). I usually get a few coming out of the woodwork with the usual 'if you really loved your partner....etc....' It's not as simple as that.
As for off forums, there isn't anyone I could share with. I don't actually have any close female friends - not the sort I share my secrets with. My partner has never been sociable, so most of our friends have fallen by the wayside over the years. So it's just me and him really....
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Faith

@Sylvia

I'm sorry that you don't have someone to reach out to that your partner agrees with. Online support is great, to a point. At that point having a one-on-one and eye contact with someone is invaluable.

Quote'if you really loved your partner....etc....' It's not as simple as that.
no it isn't, not by a long shot. I know my wife loves me, I know she doesn't want to leave me, I fully expected it. I firmly believe that we have come as far as we have because I gave her the room to come to terms with it in her own way. Do we still have hurdles, yes we do, we are overcoming them ... one big one left to go and a bunch of little ones. We will probably be tripping over them the rest of our lives.

I was anti-social. We did go out, we did meet people, some we called friends, so the anti-social label may seem odd. I kept a distance, polite but not close. if they came too close, I pushed them away. I think subconsciously I was afraid that they'd figure me out. One couple pushed through that to become as close to friends as anyone ever did. That disappeared once I came out. So, not really friends. One other 'close to friend' hasn't talked to me since word spread (and it does, people love to gossip). I have no idea what his stance is but his silence is deafening.

Sylvia, I will ask my wife again to reach out to you. I can't promise anything.

Faith
ps
I hope I didn't stray too far from the topic at hand.
I left the door open, only a few came through. such is my life.

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confusedfairy

Sylvia: Also, I may be miserable and can't talk about myself lately, but I'm around!  Feel free to PM me on this site!   (hadn't occurred to me go back to the other one) Gotta say one side of things this site doesn't see as much of, is when transition destroys a marriage.  This site has far more of the happy endings, so there are people here who apparently can't fathom a trans person blowing up their marriage on the transition process (which honestly- you're on here, so clearly you're trying- there are plenty of spouses who head for the hills and call it a day.) 

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Michelle_P

Plenty of marriages get blown up.  There's a bit of a Mutually Assured Destruction thing there, with the transitioner driven to Do Something to try and escape gender dysphoria often accompanied by severe depression, and the spouse expressing a high degree of fear or loathing for the idea of transition, demanding that there be no change.  There needs to be some accommodation by BOTH parties.

If I had not transitioned, had done nothing to make them uncomfortable as requested, at this point a few years after I came out my spouse would be alone anyway. I don't know know that they would be any better off with a grave to visit than they are now.
Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
Michelle's personal blog and biography
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gallinarosa

Quote from: Sylvia on September 18, 2018, 10:55:07 AM
The only 'safe place' I have is a forum I found for wives of TG. It's been a lifesaver as I think it's the only place where my feelings have really been understood. I pm a couple of people on there too, which, again, really helps. And it validates my feelings. I post on here, but I really don't think I get much sympathy from most, to be honest (present company excepted!). I usually get a few coming out of the woodwork with the usual 'if you really loved your partner....etc....' It's not as simple as that.
As for off forums, there isn't anyone I could share with. I don't actually have any close female friends - not the sort I share my secrets with. My partner has never been sociable, so most of our friends have fallen by the wayside over the years. So it's just me and him really....

What she said. No one in person (except the therapist), but a few online (who have been lifesavers). Too bad they live so far away but I think we are probably fine just talking online. Thanks for being there, Syl :)
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Dena

Quote from: confusedfairy on September 19, 2018, 09:49:24 AM
This site has far more of the happy endings, so there are people here who apparently can't fathom a trans person blowing up their marriage on the transition process (which honestly- you're on here, so clearly you're trying- there are plenty of spouses who head for the hills and call it a day.)
We have had our share of failed marriages but we do our best to preserve them. The formula is simple. Take it as slow as possible and don't push the transition farther than you need to. The transitioning partner needs to be aware of the needs of their spouse but also be aware than parting under friendly terms may be their only option and parting under unfriendly terms is the worst possible outcome.

Rebirth Date 1982 - PMs are welcome - Use [email]dena@susans.org[/email] or Discord if your unable to PM - Skype is available - My Transition
If you are helped by this site, consider leaving a tip in the jar at the bottom of the page or become a subscriber
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confusedfairy

Dena, thank you for your description of what to do!  I came into this process very ashamed of myself for feeling the way I did, because my spouse didn't want me to have what I later learned were entirely normal, and legitimate feelings and concerns.  While I've gotten some push back by the occasional trans person on this website, more of what I've gotten from the transfolks on here has been wonderful support and validation of my feelings, and they have been instrumental in helping me get through what has been a truly ghastly process thus far. 

Michelle_P: To be fair to SO's, yes there is some fear and loathing of transition, and some do demand their transspouse not transition, but it is cruel to say that of all SO's, as it is simply NOT true.

In our defense, some of the most common problems I saw on the website Sylvia and Gallinorosa are talking about:

1. This is a MAJOR change in our lives, and transpouse frequently feels they must 'Do Something' IMMEDIATELY, without giving us time to process this MAJOR change (which is major enough to be compared to the feeling of getting widowed, at least initially.)
-some of us have even been berated for crying (literally.)  In spite of showing our support by loaning/buying our partner feminine garments, cosmetics, hair removal items, etc., we still have feelings that we need to work through, and are not permitted that. 

-As Dena pointed out, this can be effectively dealt with by giving us TIME (and possibly hugging us, and etc. when we cry, rather than berating us.)  The successful marriages feature a trans spouse that does exactly this, when I've encountered these couples. 

2. Some of the more hurtful transpouses seem to expect their cis-spouse to change their sexuality overnight.  The lesbian cis-spouse must get used to sex with a partner that has facial hair and no breasts, and the heterosexual cisfemale must now get used to lacy underthings, lipstick, and new anatomy down below.  (These are examples, I know results and genders vary.) 

-Some people start out sexually flexible, but even then, it can still be an adjustment to make, because again, the cis-spouse, at least initially, feels like they are now married to a whole new person.  For folks that are more flexible, they will frequently be able to adjust to this, but they need TIME to do that. And understanding, of course.

-Some people are not as flexible, and simply aren't going to be attracted to their partner's new presentation, no matter how hard they try and want to be, (and in some cases, will unfortunately be blamed for this.)

3. This one will probably irritate some trans people:  PERSONALITY CHANGES! 
A lot of (not all) trans people I've spoken to seem to think the fundamental core personality doesn't change with transition.  Maybe it doesn't, but I would have to guess this is a ymmv situation. 

-In some cases, this is true, and the outer shell personality traits didn't change much either, or the changes were improvements in the eyes of the cis-spouse(such as Debi and Tia's case.)  Hooray for happy endings!
- In some cases, the repression/ whatever else was strong enough that the cis-spouse no longer recognizes the person they're married to, because the personality IS so drastically changed, at least in the eyes of the spouse.  Lots of accounts of this online. 
-Sometimes, the core personality may not be changed, but the facade/repression concealed/ameliorated the less compatible core personality traits, and no more facade/repression means this marriage will no longer work because the core personalities were never compatible to begin with. 

4. Some of us have financial/ medical concerns for our family/ spouse where transition is concerned.  Not going to get into details here, but please don't blame people that are essentially telling you they don't want their trans spouse to die.  It's not easy to say "I don't want you to die" and be viewed as the bad guy, in spite of simply wanting to keep your spouse alive.  Not as common, but is also a real occurrence that happens. 

  Again, please do not make the assumption that it is always a matter of the SO who needs to be more understanding.  And certainly, do NOT post it in a thread where some of the people are describing feeling hurt, alone, and hopeless.  The SO's here ALL voluntarily began using a transgender friendly support website.  If they wanted to wholly reject transition, there are probably better websites to frequent.  There's a posting on the transgender pages that describes how to not blow up a marriage, where the author points out that there are some SO's who commit suicide over this.  Suicide is not usually an act of blame, it is an act by somebody who feels helpless.  Please be more considerate. 
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confusedfairy

Ok, Michelle_P, sorry, came off quite cranky there.  Reread your post and noticing you're not as extreme as I made you out to be.  Sorry!  (I've ended up taking a lot of heat just for being a spouse with a crumbling marriage on this website, even if there are more people that are supportive than critical.) 
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KathyLauren

Quote from: Debi on September 16, 2018, 01:41:20 PMHas anyone else out their figured out a way around this problem because I do believe that the secrets are one of the things that really harm relationships?

It never occurred to me to swear my wife to secrecy.  I knew I could trust her to respect my needs while she looked after hers.  So, while I didn't want the secret to get out locally to people we associate with face-to-face, I had no problem at all when she talked it over with her email friends on the other side of the continent.  She held a security clearance of Secret in her working days, so I knew I could count on her to compartmentalize appropriately.

So, she was able to talk freely so some of her old work friends by email when she knew there would be no blowback, and I was able to keep my transition secret locally until the time was right.  She even shared some of the responses she got from her friends with me, which were truly heart-warming and supportive for us both.

Trust was what made it work.  I trusted my wife not to divulge anything in a way that would jeopardize me, and she trusted her friends not to spread the word any farther.  As a result, she was able to get the support she needed.

My wife also got support from the local trans support group.  One meeting a month is a "Plus 1" meeting, where significant others are welcome.  The contacts she made there gave her another avenue of support.
2015-07-04 Awakening; 2015-11-15 Out to self; 2016-06-22 Out to wife; 2016-10-27 First time presenting in public; 2017-01-20 Started HRT!!; 2017-04-20 Out publicly; 2017-07-10 Legal name change; 2019-02-15 Approval for GRS; 2019-08-02 Official gender change; 2020-03-11 GRS; 2020-09-17 New birth certificate
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Moonflower

Thanks everyone for being here. I appreciate your pointing out that my spouse's coming out might say as much about me as it does about her. For example, I am finding that I am very comfortable as a bisexual. Also, I have kept her transition a secret from the people closest to us for years, so I am apparently good at keeping secrets.  :-X

Keeping secrets is something that I don't enjoy, but her transitioning is something that I respect and support, entirely on her terms. I love when she wants me to find a certain "female" item for her, online or at a store. I welcome the entire expression of who she is. I never fell in love with her masculinity or any part of her male facade. I fell in love with the person inside her soul; the one who is the core of who she is, and that's the person whom I enjoy interacting with.
:icon_wave:
1999 we met and married :icon_archery:
Fall 2018 The woman hiding behind my husband's facade is coming out full time! :icon_female:
She began MTF HRT but had adverse reactions, so gave up on transitioning medically.
Summer 2022 I went through gender confirmation surgery as a result of cancer.
2024 her cardiologist and a therapist wrote letters approving of resuming HRT, she's legally changing her name, and now she's getting on the calendar for gender surgery!

Welcome, to Significant Others
https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,247396.0.html

Our transitioning blog, "Opening The Cage"
https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,241591.0.html
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Lantana

So my question for all you SOs is: What do you want to do or accomplish for yourself in the next year?


Debi
[/quote]


I want to get the house ready to sell and make a decision about staying/going.
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