For Asexual or Mainly Asexual Transgender Members

[pamelatransuk]

Hello Everyone

The medical community and most Susan's members today believe Gender Identity and Sexual Orientation to be separate subjects as do I.

Furthermore I think at the very least we can say there is a far greater asexual percentage within the transgender community than within the general population. Also to many but not to all, sexual participation is less relevant in the older population (for various reasons) and hence sexual orientation may not be dominant in that age group.

Personally I have known since childhood I am transgender and lived for most of my life happily celibate. I started transition last year aged 62.

I had girlfriends a long time ago but never any long term relationship and hence stayed single and do not regret that decision. In simple terms I was mainly "not interested" as I preferred women for social company and discussion and nothing more and I never really sought anything more. I had romantic thoughts of girls but any minor sexual thoughts I had was to perhaps have sex as a woman with a woman. Hence I am asexual with minor lesbian tendencies. I have always been unhappy that my body does not align with my mind and did not feel at ease at sex as a man with a woman. I "retired" from consideration of sex around 30. I am aware many cis and trans people "retire" later.

First I ask the question of timing and secondly I have a question to which I honestly do not the answer and hence I seek others viewpoints please:

1. If you are trans and mainly asexual (including "retired"), which did you discover first - that you are trans or that you are asexual. I knew I was trans in childhood so it is the former for me.

2. If you are trans and mainly asexual (including "retired"), is there a connection - a direct one or a remote one - please? Is/was your libido low due to being trans or is it coincidental? Obviously I have the misalignment of body to mind but I don't know if that resulted in me being asexual. Has I been born cis, would I have still been asexual? I don't know. Perhaps many of us trans or cis choose to be celibate as we simply never meet the "right one" and that I can relate to.

Any thoughts please?

Thanking you and Hugs to all.

Pamela

[KathyLauren]

Hi, Pamela.

I believe that sexual orientation and gender identity are separate, but I am pretty sure they interact.  I am clear about my gender identity, where it came from, how it affected me in my past life, how it affects me now.  Sex and sexual orientation are a big muddle for me.  I fear I will never understand it.  And, because it is over, I am not highly motivated to understand it now.

Like being trans, being mostly asexual is something that makes more sense in hindsight than it did at the time.  I didn't date in high school or university, and I was a virgin until age 30.  At the time, I blamed that on my parents, who denied me access to the sex ed program at school, but didn't fill the gap themselves.  I suppose they were waiting for me to ask them, but I never did.  I knew I couldn't raise a subject that was so obviously taboo.

But none of that made any kind of sense to me at the time, just like being trans made no sense to me.

I got married, and we had a normal sex life, and I thought I was 'cured'.  Though now, I recall that I never initiated sex: probably significant.  That lasted until my wife hit menopause.  I was a little upset, but not very, and I quickly got used to it.  It doesn't bother me at all now.

I had no idea that asexual was a thing until I joined Susan's Place.  So, to answer your first question, I knew I was trans first.

I honestly have no way to answer your second question.  Hopefully my history will give you a little clue how it was for me.  I was just the weird kid.  I had no idea what was going on.  I just wanted to hide my weirdness and pretend to be normal.  My intuition is to think that the two influenced each other, but to what extent, I can't say.

[StacyRenee]

I've known, or at least suspected I was trans since about age 9. So that was first for me. I had relationships and sex starting in high school, but while trying to be cis, it just never felt right. My longest relationship was my marriage that barely lasted a year. Most of the time my relationships don't last over three months. Those we're all before I came out to the world two years ago.

I've questioned about being ace since then. I have had no libido since shortly after starting HRT. I question whether I'd want a relationship again, or sex for that matter. I've contemplated gender nullification over GCS. I've been single most of my life and have grown to be completely independent. Maybe I'm just not relationship material.

At times my depression gets the best of me. I wonder if anyone would ever want to be with me, in a relationship or in the bedroom. I still don't have the answers, but until I figure it out, I suppose I'll just be asexual. Maybe someday I'll find a reason to be intimate again.

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[Kirsteneklund7]

Hi Pamela,
I will try and answer as best I can.

1.I knew I was trans much earlier than any assexual issue. ie kindergarten.

2.Throughout most my life my libido was high and it overcame my confusions or awkwardness in the dating game at least initially. When a woman got to know me that's when the problems began. I think for ex-girlfriends it may have been a bit like being in a lesbian relationship with bed death happening by default - a bit like many lesbian romances.
I could never do the benevolent dictator like other guys did. I was more her friend with the sexual spark fading away as a result. Girlfriends tended to ask the same questions - 'are you really gay or something" - one girl nailed it through pure intuition- "you like my body because deep down you want to be a woman don't you"
I didn't lie- I spilled my guts . Our relationship was never the same after that.
Libido itself was never the problem - it was the off dynamic generated by not being one with mind and body.
I think if I had addressed my trans issues in my twenties I could have overcome the "off" dynamic. Transitioning in my twenties may have solved a raft of problems but may have created other ones. I chose to just bury my desire to be a woman and to a certain extent it worked.
Eventually in my late twenties I met a lovely woman who ended up asking the usual questions I seemed to attract. I joked  I was a lesbian trapped in a man's body.
In the end she knew I was a bit different but she ignored it. Luckily she also had a very low libido so when the inevitable bed death started it wasn't such a problem.
In 22 years sex has never really been our thing even though I would have preferred it to be otherwise.
When I came out to her as trans at the beginning of 2016 she was disappointed but commented she always knew but just ignored it.
These days at age 49 I would put effort into a sex life if it was feasible but I'm happy to be celibate and that suits both of us.
I suspect if I complete my transition a new  dynamic may emerge but these days I'm at peace with remaining celibate.
  So in the end I think being in the wrong gender creates the celibacy , I think if we(as transsexuals) had transitioned as teenagers there would have been less of a barrier to active physical relationships.
Hope this is useful for consideration.
Big hugs, Kirsten.



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[Eryn T]

1. If you are trans and mainly asexual (including "retired"), which did you discover first - that you are trans or that you are asexual. I knew I was trans in childhood so it is the former for me.

I knew I was 'something' but didn't realize it was asexual, or that that was a thing until after I started transitioning.

When I was younger, I thought I needed to be gay because I wasn't very manly. I found that I felt a desire to love someone regardless of gender, and sex was in a different box(still is) at the time. I don't see sex as love, sex is just sex; and if I wanted sex it was for nothing more than the physical gratification of it.

2. If you are trans and mainly asexual (including "retired"), is there a connection - a direct one or a remote one - please? Is/was your libido low due to being trans or is it coincidental? Obviously I have the misalignment of body to mind but I don't know if that resulted in me being asexual. Has I been born cis, would I have still been asexual? I don't know. Perhaps many of us trans or cis choose to be celibate as we simply never meet the "right one" and that I can relate to.

I think I had a normal level of libido for males, during puberty. But this was way too high for what I was comfortable with.  I didn't really seek sex for what it is, I sought it for how it represented my role in society, because of how everyone else viewed sex(or how I perceived that they viewed it as) I think there is a connection, as I never wanted to use my male genitalia, and right now, that is all I have in terms of sexual organs.  So, I do believe my asexuality and transgender status are connected.  What I always was attracted to was the slight mushy advances I mght see in Japanese anime, a very reserved version of affection.  I'm much more interested in cuddling someone I love, than making-out with them. I feel like the latter is moreso just base nature or instinct taking over your conscious thoughts.

[Tatiana 79]

Hello Pamela
I'm very glad to see that you started this thread because I knew you have been thinking about this subject deeply.

To answer your first question I definitely felt different at the kindergarten level and was drawn to my sisters or mothers clothing to be associated with something female.
But it really hit me hard in first grade when the boys and girls had different uniforms and I had to wear the boys one and hated it.
So I was definitely trans first.

And the answer to your second question.
To tell you the truth sweetheart I never thought anything about this until you mentioned it to me the other day. And researched it a little then and yes I guess I'm asexual to.
In school I never really chased after girls for a relationship although I did feel more comfortable associating with them. I never had a relationship with a girl at school but just After High School I let one of those girls that was chasing me, catch me, and she's still here right next to me now after all these years.
I really hate my big masculine body but girls in high school I guess that's what they wanted as I had many pretty girls chasing after me but as I said I only let the one catch me just After High School.
We had a normal sex life well sort of, because the only way I could function would be if I thought I was the girl. I thought everything would change after we got married but of course it did not.
I can't even remember the last time we had sex I think it would be about a decade or Maybe even two decades ago. We are both still deeply in love without physical relationship.
We both really have no desire and my labito is zip.
We're still super close and very much in love and maybe even a little more so now that I've been freed out of my shell. We do every single little thing together.
I believe my libido is low for me being trans because I never could do it as CIS  couples do. I always had to be the girl in my head or nothing would function.
But now I could really care less about that, I'm focusing more on my transition and trying to fit into a feminine role, with my CIS wife.
In my household anything goes and I've been dressing female for a long time but now the two of us are going to be female. Which is an awful lot of fun and satisfaction for both of us.
And the both of us will grow old as two girls together.

Much love and happiness to you, GF
                      Tatiana

[randim]

Hi Pamela,

I definitely cross-dressed as a young adult while my libido was pretty strong.  I was not thinking of ever transitioning at that time, but that would still qualify as knowing you're trans.  While I remained a virgin for a very long time, it wasn't for a lack of desire.  So I guess I knew I was trans before I knew I was asexual.

I do think being trans impacts my sexuality.  There seems to be some mystical, masculine trait that I lack that impacts my relationship with women.  My wife once told me "You have none of the male bull->-bleeped-<-, not any."  I certainly took that as a compliment, but in hindsight I realize she probably is attracted to a *little* of the male bull->-bleeped-<-.

And when you're trans and closeted, your self-esteem isn't the highest and your're worried about revealing your secret.  That doesn't help either.

[pamelatransuk]

I question whether I'd want a relationship again, or sex for that matter. I've contemplated gender nullification over GCS. I've been single most of my life and have grown to be completely independent. Maybe I'm just not relationship material.

Sex was in a different box(still is) at the time. I don't see sex as love, sex is just sex; and if I wanted sex it was for nothing more than the physical gratification of it.

I'm much more interested in cuddling someone I love, than making-out with them. I feel like the latter is moreso just base nature or instinct taking over your conscious thoughts.

Many thanks to Kathy Kirsten Tatiana and Randim for your thoughts which appear similar to mine in several aspects.

Thanks also to StacyRenee and Eryn and I have highlighted a couple of issues above.

Yes I see the possibility of Gender Nullification also. I know I want a female body as first choice but I want it for the sake of appearance only and probably not for anything else. I may consider Orchie or ZDV or GCS but I have plenty of time to decide - not till 2020 or 2021.

Whereas there is absolutely nothing wrong with sex for those who wish to participate, I too see sex as not a form of making love but as a form of physical gratification and more relevantly to me, I much prefer kissing or hugging or fondling or cuddling. Much more affectionate in my opinion.   

Thanking you all and hugs and cuddles to all!

Pamela

[Linde]

I think I am different again.  I never had the feeling that I was in the wrong body, because looking back, I never knew really what body should have been the right one.  I had no real gender identity.  Early in my life, I liked to play with the toys of my older sister, but also liked my cars, etc.  But I was told that I was a boy, and I tried to be a boy as good as I could.  My dysphoria manifested itself by me not being as boyish as my peers.  I also was not really interested in the rough boy type games, and drifted towards girls a little more.  Later I had my best friend, who was also the same kind of wimpy guy as I was, and we did our own stuff (we remained best friends through our entire life, he died 6 years ago on kidney cancer).  Looking back, I think he was either intersex as I was, or at least trans without knowing it.  My friend never got married either. 
I tried to be as good as a man as I could, and I had, I think, a normal sex drive and was 100% hetero.  Everything went fine in our marriage, but like somebody said earlier, I was never really the person who initiated sexual intercourse, I was always just fine with all the foreplay, etc.  Until, almost over the course of a few days, I was not able to sexually perform anymore (today I know that this was the time I underwent my female menopause - but at that time I did not even know that I was intersex, and I did not even know that something like intersex or transgender was existing).  Eventual, this caused a lot of anger, etc.  And our marriage finally broke apart over the entire anger situation.  My wife was the last person in my life I ever had any sexual interaction with.  I slowly drifted into an asexual condition after she left.  She was the love of my life, and I did not allow any other woman to come close enough to me to interfere with my self dictated celibacy.  Over time I lost any sexual interests at all, and my libido went away pretty much.   I still did not know that I was intersex or would be trans.
The loss of my ability to function as a man, was just another "male fail" for me.

At about this time I was always a female in all of my dreams.  And the part of my body, I saw most of the time, was my vulva.  I never had any sexual interactions in my dreams, I just was running around the world with an exposed vulva (talking about stupid dreams!).  Anyway, the first idea that I was a little different came to me when my breasts started to grow.  First I thought they were men boobs, but they continued to grow even though I was pretty slim and trim.  I went to my physician about it, and all the testing started, and they found out all the different things about my body, which finally explained why I was the way I am.  By that time, I was asexual for quite some time already.
Being trans came to me late last year (or in reality, it probably started with my dreams? Like 10 or 15 years ago?).  But late last year I wanted to be a woman, and I wanted to be a woman as fast as I could become one!

Anyway, whenever my transition started, I was asexual long before that.

But I do not really feel like most of you, because I never had a real male body anyway, because my body was largely female to start with, I just had the wrong plumbing.  My boobs are growing, because I am currently ending my puberty, and I feel more like reclaiming my original body rather than transitioning into a female body.

Does that make sense?

I do not see any sign that I will not continue to be asexual, and I hope very much so, because being asexual, life is way easier, and a lot of pressure and stress is not there anymore.  If I would become sexual again, I think I would be as lesbian as they come!  And if one considers that I probably was (as they tell me) all my life 2/3 female and 1/3 male, I was nothing but a lesbian all my life!

[BlueJaye]

Discovered I was trans first (or at least learned what it meant, I had always been trans, just didn't have a word for it). Then, after starting HRT, discovered I have zero sexual interest in anyone. Prior to HRT, I thought of women as friends but could get aroused physically by them. Now, I am just really interested knowing and being friends with women. I have never had any sexual attraction to men, and that has not changed. Nor do I expect it will. I am fairly certain I will remain asexual. And I am happy with that. Sex was always a source of turmoil for me. I am happy putting it behind me.

I have been married for ten years. My wife has always leaned toward asexuality and only had sex with me out of marital obligation. We have discussed how I feel now, and she would be content to remain with me but be a celibate couple. Neither one of us can imagine ourselves as lesbian lovers. Just really good friends who love each other and need to raise our kids together.

[Kylo]

The nature of being transsexual both physically and mentally is uncomfortable sexually. There are problems with how you see yourself/body sexually, how others see you and your body sexually, and how the mind tries to cope with this.

1) I had an aversion to participating in sex long before I knew for sure transsexuality was an issue. Attraction is not a problem. Having to negotiate relationships and sex acts as a trans individual is. My libido is fine. My motivation to satisfy it, though, isn't. I have a habit of viewing the whole topic in the style of military-grade operational risk assessment and usually it's not worth the risk, effort and expense.

2) Had I been born cis I would probably not be acting celibate. I noticed HRT had a huge positive effect on self/body image and almost completely relaxed my almost religious sense of shame around the whole thing. But it can't make a dent in my cautiousness toward potential partners and risks involved. That's likely a result of in-grown personality traits.

Should I find the hypothetical "right one" - which at this point I doubt will ever happen since my relationships have taught me a few realities about people and myself and I don't know if I have energy for any more of that - I wouldn't have a problem. It seems that prior to transition there was a severe mental block regards sexual interaction, HRT has fixed that. These days it's a matter of trying to avoid the pitfalls of incompatible people. Being stuck with someone who only feels misery when you truly act like yourself is one of the deluxe torments of a Personal Hell.     

[Linde]

Should I find the hypothetical "right one" - which at this point I doubt will ever happen since my relationships have taught me a few realities about people and myself and I don't know if I have energy for any more of that - I wouldn't have a problem. It seems that prior to transition there was a severe mental block regards sexual interaction, HRT has fixed that. These days it's a matter of trying to avoid the pitfalls of incompatible people. Being stuck with someone who only feels misery when you truly act like yourself is one of the deluxe torments of a Personal Hell.   

And that is the reason that I would like to get involved with another trans person for the case that sexual interests would return to me!  Only another trans person can really understand what is going on with me and about me.  It could very well be that I remained being asexual after I started to transition, just to avoid having to explain why I can't, or would not want to do certain expected sexual actions.
Being asexual takes all these uncomfortable situations away and let's me do what I feel I want to do.

[pamelatransuk]

I thought Linde might be interested in this thread and directed her here from the "Transition, and Shifts in Gender Orientation" thread.

Thank you to both Linde and Kylo for your most interesting comments. It appears there is so much to learn from others' experience of asexuality; we already knew there is so much to learn from others' trans experience. We have some things in common but we are all unique and hence different.

All I wish to add is that which I stated on the other thread: I am now 10 months HRT and I confirm my (a)sexuality has remained the same for the last 10 months as it was for the previous 32 years.

Sex for me was indeed uncomfortable and embarrassing for me 33 years ago - how could anyone else appreciate/admire/be attracted to my body when I found it offputting? Had I been born cis, I truly do not know whether I would or would not have been mainly asexual for other reasons.

Hugs and cuddles to all again

Pamela

[Linde]

Sex for me was indeed uncomfortable and embarrassing for me 33 years ago - how could anyone else appreciate/admire/be attracted to my body when found it offputting? Had I been born cis, I truly do not know whether I would or would not have been mainly asexual for other reasons.

Hugs and cuddles to all again

Pamela

And there is our difference in our asexuality.  I enjoyed sex when I was younger, or better I enjoyed the foreplay, cuddling and the gentle stuff about sex, the act itself was more like a chore to me.  I did have only 5 sex partners in my entire life, and i was with my wife over 36 years, and was not interested in any other female anymore.  I think our sex life was pretty great (she is also of this opinion), but once she left, I did not  Want to soil this memory with other females.  I dated a few times after our divorce, but none of the ladies really inspired me to more.  After a while I stopped dating, and I think that I was fully asexual at that time.  I have no sexual desire anymore, and feel pretty comfortable about this.
It had never anything to do with the way I looked at my body, for me it is just a mental thing, and I don't know if I would break out of this mental block after I had SRS. 
When I had the last sexual thoughts, it as always about the sexual interactions I had with my wife, she is still inside my head after almost 16 years now, and probably will be there for the rest of my life?  Anyway, I am pretty sure that I will remain asexual as long as any sexual thoughts I have are connected with my ex, because I do not want to spoil this memory!  But for the time being, I can easily live with this!

I do miss hugs and cuddles but have not found anybody I feel like having those, with!
Therefore the virtual versions is coming!

Hugs and cuddles back to all of you!
Linde

[Zoey421]

My wife questioned my sexuality back during our honeymoon 21 years ago and was concerned that we only had sex once during this exceptional time in one's life. Throughout our relationship, my wife initiated sex most of the time. She often jokes that our daughter was conceived after I had been travelling for weeks and she grabbed me to have sex in order to get pregnant once I got home.

I tried to initiate sex but was usually rebuffed, not always mind you. This was unsettling to me and eventually, I came to accept this state of being. In addition, while I could help her climax, I was usually unable to climax or it would take a looong time. My wife is beautiful and attracts men like fly paper. She has this uncanny ability to know what men need and relates to them on a level I have seen rarely. The same was with me but our sexual relationship was muted.

My wife actually thought I was gay but I don't find the male body enticing, I extremely attracted to the female body. I found an earlier comment by @kirsteneklund7 in this thread interesting where she mentions a girlfriend telling her "you like my body because deep down you want to be a woman don't you." This resonates with me. I have always found the female body fascinating and beautiful. Deep down I think my attraction to females was because I wanted to be one and came to accept this in my 50s.

I don't think I'm asexual and I unsure what the future will bring regarding sex. I am really looking for companionship more than a sexual relationship. I think this is fairly normal when you move into your 50s.

I accepted my sexual state of mind well before I realized I was transgendered.

The trail of crumbs I left behind me now makes sense

Thank you for starting this thread, Pamela.

Hugs Zoey

.

[DKTGSupport]

I'm a MAAB.

For many years I was annoyed that i didn't had a girlfriend. Then I learnt the term asexuality, it's weird to think of but I lost maybe 20 % of the times that wanted to masturbate. During a couple of years at AVEN I came across other terms( genderless, agender & neutrois).
Today when dysphoria hits it's the term neutrois that makes me sad & frustrated.
I've times when i feel that my gender could just as easy be in a syringe.

So for me it's : Asexuality -> transgender(feelings).

[Dani]

One thing we have not mentioned yet is that as we age our interest in sexual intercourse diminishes. This does make biological sense in that older people may not live long enough to raise their children to adulthood.

Of course, older people can increase their interest in sex with proper hormone replacement therapy and many of us do report an increase in sexual interest, especially if you are taking Testosterone.

[HappyMoni]

I thought Linde might be interested in this thread and directed her here from the "Transition, and Shifts in Gender Orientation" thread.

All I wish to add is that which I stated on the other thread: I am now 10 months HRT and I confirm my (a)sexuality has remained the same for the last 10 months as it was for the previous 32 years.

Sex for me was indeed uncomfortable and embarrassing for me 33 years ago - how could anyone else appreciate/admire/be attracted to my body when I found it offputting? Had I been born cis, I truly do not know whether I would or would not have been mainly asexual for other reasons.


Pamela

Pamela,
   I am glad you started this thread. It is good for folks to have a place to discuss this thing you have in common. I abandoned that thread about gender and orientation shifts because it seemed like there was more taking about asexuality than shifting orientation. I got the feeling no one understood what I was trying to say. I don't mean that as a hostile statement, just how I felt. As for being asexual, I am not ready for that. Maybe one day. Although I had sex for many years, mentally it was painful to be in the wrong body. Very often I guess I was asexual when having sex because I was fighting the whole situation in my head. Now I have my body right, I am not satisfied with no sex. It's like I waged a war to get to this point, why would I not want to go forward. I see asexuality is a fallback that would be okay if I had to. I'm not sure you all see it that way. I hope that is not regarded as insulting.
Moni

[ChrissyRyan]

Does being asexual include no self-pleasuring when alone to an orgasm?
I do not think being asexual includes abstaining or celibacy.

If I understand the concept of asexual, that means you have no interest in having sex with anyone.  I wonder then if that means you will not be sexually attracted to anyone and that you will have no sexual fantasies.

Chrissy

[Kylo]

Does being asexual include no self-pleasuring when alone to an orgasm?
I do not think being asexual includes abstaining or celibacy.

If I understand the concept of asexual, that means you have no interest in having sex with anyone.  I wonder then if that means you will not be sexually attracted to anyone and that you will have no sexual fantasies.

Chrissy

That's how I understand it. Asexuality is no psychological sexual desires at all. No action towards sex is celibacy. The two seem to have become popularly conflated. Probably because 'the community' at large have been using it online as a term to describe a personal choice.