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What do you think may have gone wrong?

Started by Stella Stanhope, August 06, 2018, 06:43:37 PM

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Stella Stanhope

Hi there!
I see that a fair number of this site report that HRT doesn't (to them) seem to have had any tangible and appreciable effects on themselves, most predominantly regarding the physical aspects. I am amazed that even in 2018, many doctors and GPs seem to be as informed about administering HRT regimes as a 1900s pharmacist randomly dolling out morphine or cocaine to calm a mother's unruly toddlers during teething. I understand that YMMV, and human beings are complex machines, but there has to be some sort of medical database(s) which provide information on how certain doses and how those are delivered are most likely to affect the patient. If this sort of data didn't exist, then we wouldn't be able to say whether stuff like headache pills work. But we know Ibruprofen works (for instance) because there has been collected data which points towards an overwhelming conclusion that it reduces headaches effects for most people.

For another example - when I was a child, I had stunted growth due to steroids. I had HGH and testosterone pills given to me to kickstart puberty and although the doctors had no idea what my life would be like twenty years down the line. the doctors still had charts and data which they used to make predictions about my trajectory, and these calculations affected what doses they gave me. On the whole - their informed predictions were exceptionally accurate. They predicted my height would be 5foot 6inches - which is exactly what is. And they predicted that I'd experience growth and masculinization spurts into the entirety of my twenties - which is exactly what's happened. Therefore, I find it disturbing that there doesn't seem to be any, any at all, data to find out what regimes work for which people and why.

So, in the spirit of finding out more, potentially providing insight for others (and as I'm also once again going for gender therapy sessions), to those who don't feel that hormones "did anything", what (without talking dosages of course) were you on - pills, pellets, injections and wre these generally a low dose or a high? Was it with an anti-androgen or not? What is your body-type? Etc.

For instance, I seem to have noticed that skinny MTFs (with low BMIs) seem to report that HRT doesn't seem to provide much in the way of positive physical effects. Is this the case? What other factors are there? Is it just the lack of fat to work with to provide certain effects or are there also other factors at work?

Perhaps if we can find commonality, then this could at least provide precious extra information which might potentially assist with those seeking hormones regimes which are better informed.
There are no more barriers to cross... But even after admitting this, there is no catharsis... I gain no deeper knowledge of myself. No new knowledge can be extracted from my telling. This confession has meant nothing.

When you find yourself hopelessly stuck between the floors of gender - you make yourself at home in the lift.
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Charlie Nicki

I'm one of those girls who report HRT didn't do anything for them. Besides toying with my emotions, it didn't do much. Most of my physical changes are from external things (weight loss, surgery, laser, growing my hair). I just think estrogen isn't strong enough.

I've only been a year but it has mostly been disappointing.
Latina :) I speak Spanish, English and a bit of Portuguese.
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Virginia

Quote from: Stella Stanhope on August 06, 2018, 06:43:37 PM
I seem to have noticed that skinny MTFs (with low BMIs) seem to report that HRT doesn't seem to provide much in the way of positive physical effects. Is this the case? What other factors are there? Is it just the lack of fat to work with to provide certain effects or are there also other factors at work?

58 year old ectomorph with small male frame (5'10" 146 pounds; "normal" BMI of 20.9) chiming in. I've been on a typical full transition level oral Estrogen/Spironalactone regimen for 9 years.

My female alter had no problems being seen as a woman before starting HRT and I have no problems being seen as a guy now. Other than a set of 34B's and alot of my body hair falling out, hormones didn't do much because there isn't all that much difference between male and female ectos to begin with. Post puberty, hormones predominately affect fat and hair. And we just don't have much fat to move around.

I have often heard it said that handsome men make pretty women. I think this is in part because we live in a culture that associates androgyny and beauty. But too much of any good thing is not good; including curves and hair.

It's a bit anticlimactic once you think about it, but I have read that hormones have the most effect on people who exhibit the strongest secondary sex characteristics of their birth gender. Start pumping different hormones into the body and those characteristics decrease. It's not black magic.

I had a beard like gorilla and moderate body hair, but was pretty androgynous to begin with:
Androgynous facial structure
Small Adam's apple, hands and feet
Long index finger (2D:4D ratio)
Long arms (high arms span to height ratio)
Typical female angle in the elbows for carrying babies
Severe idiopathic scoliosis (10X more common in women)

I also have a normal male karyotype (no Klinefelter Syndrome) and Mom took DES when she was pregnant, an estrogen given to pregnant women in the 1940's-70's that has an established relationship with male trangenderism. But none of that makes it one bit harder for people to see me as a man.


~VA (pronounced Vee- Aye, the abbreviation for the State of Virginia where I live)
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Dani

Any one person's response to HRT cannot be predicted. Science can make predictions on a large number of individuals as a group. Most peoples response will be similar to the predicted outcome, but there are statistical out layers ( + or - 2 standard deviations from the normal response) who for no identifiable reason just do not respond or overwhelmingly respond to HRT.

Sometimes we can identify reasons for HRT failure, such as improper dosing or administration of HRT. Do not expect to develop as expected if you have chronically sub therapeutic blood levels.  If a person is very thin, do not expect to see female fat deposits from just HRT alone. Healthy women need to be about 20 to 25% body fat. More than 30% body fat is a bit too much.

Diet and exercise are very important in a successful transition, which ever way you chose to transition. For your height, just determine what a desirable body weight should be and eat a proper balanced diet with enough calories to maintain that weight. Exercise regimens need to be tailored differently for men and women. Men need more strength training to build upper body and arm strength while women need to work more on their waist, buttocks and upper legs. Both men and women need aerobic and stretching exercises.

These are things we can do something about. Unfortunately we cannot change our genetic heritage. We just do the best with what we are born with. Of course, this includes a few surgical modifications as we desire.  ;)
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Stella Stanhope

Hi there!
Thanks very much for you replies, thanks for taking the time.

So far, this is tallying with what I have noticed. MTF HRT doesn't seem to affect ectomorphs that much. I wonder if it's the same for FTM ecomorphs.

It does sound anti-climatic indeed. I'm still...I guess, an ectomorph, despite having bulked out of late. I don't know if androgyny is seen as attractive though. I notice that the most attractive people in society have certain cross-gender attributes but overall have an appearance very much pertaining to their birth gender. For instance a manly man with long eyelashes is seen as attractive. While a buxom woman with defined, skinny legs is seen as attractive (at least in the West currently). But I wouldn't say that androgyny itself is seen as attractive. I know that David Bowie and Prince were seen as idols, that the average joe wouldn't get away with that androgyny, regardless of how attractive they are.

I definitely think that there's so much more that can be done to predict a transgender person's potential trajectory regarding their future characteristics. I think it's laziness and lack of respect for transgender people in the medical community that result in such lack of data available.
There are no more barriers to cross... But even after admitting this, there is no catharsis... I gain no deeper knowledge of myself. No new knowledge can be extracted from my telling. This confession has meant nothing.

When you find yourself hopelessly stuck between the floors of gender - you make yourself at home in the lift.
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Jessica

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on August 06, 2018, 07:23:08 PM
I'm one of those girls who report HRT didn't do anything for them. Besides toying with my emotions, it didn't do much. Most of my physical changes are from external things (weight loss, surgery, laser, growing my hair). I just think estrogen isn't strong enough.

I've only been a year but it has mostly been disappointing.

I hope I don't trigger my dear friend here, but as you stated ymmv.
I started at the same time as Charlie Nicki, where she has not had the effects desired from estrogen, I have had pleasant changes.  Breast growth was predetermined with my mothers genes. I am fortunate that I do respond well.  By the 4th month I could see the changes and now others do too.  Size C cup breasts, softer skin, fat redistribution in the face and butt/ thighs.
Psychological effect happened very soon after starting hrt, all of it is on going.

Hugs to you Daniela, Sorry 🌸🌸🌸  Jess

"If you go out looking for friends, you are going to find they are very scarce.  If you go out to be a friend, you'll find them everywhere."


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Virginia

#6
Quote from: Stella Stanhope on August 06, 2018, 08:12:48 PM
I don't know if androgyny is seen as attractive though. I notice that the most attractive people in society have certain cross-gender attributes but overall have an appearance very much pertaining to their birth gender.

This is a much better way of expressing my thought. Androgyny as in the sense of Andreja Pejic's ability to be seen and considered beautiful as both a man or a woman.
~VA (pronounced Vee- Aye, the abbreviation for the State of Virginia where I live)
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krobinson103

I started over weight to begin with but with some large muscle development from cycling. Combining HRT and a low carb/sugar diet my body shape has significantly changed, I developed largish c/small d cup breasts, along with the usual emotion skin hair stuff.  Also there was a LOT of muscle loss which for me is a good thing. Body hair fell out basicially or became vellous. So for me the changes have been large indeed. I deliberately keep a bit more fat that than would be considered normal because at 6 foot 2 and skinny I look... well skinny. I like having a few curves and a few extra pounds helps with that.

I've always been quite fem looking anyway so I figure I'm just meant to be this way.
Every day is a totally awesome day
Every day provides opportunities and challenges
Every challenge leads to an opportunity
Every fear faced leads to one more strength
Every strength leads to greater success
Success leads to self esteem
Self Esteem leads to happiness.
Cherish every day.
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KathyLauren

I have had good physical results from HRT, considering my mother's genes.  She had small breasts, and so do I.  She once complained that she had wanted to breast-feed me (back in 1954, when it wasn't considered socially acceptable), but wasn't able to, because she couldn't produce enough milk.  So I expected mine to be small and they are.  I am happy with an A-cup, and they are still giving me growing pains.  I have a friend who gives me perspective: she is 40, and would have to use padding to fill a double-A bra.

I am also happy with the other physical effects: lips, facial contour, smooth skin, loss of body hair (what little I had).

I don't know what kind of body shape classification I fit into.  I am about 150 lbs.  The heaviest I have ever been is 160.  I have a bit of a belly, enough to make wearing a dress embarassing.  As the proprietor of one clothing store said to me, it's a problem when your stomach is bigger than your boobs.
2015-07-04 Awakening; 2015-11-15 Out to self; 2016-06-22 Out to wife; 2016-10-27 First time presenting in public; 2017-01-20 Started HRT!!; 2017-04-20 Out publicly; 2017-07-10 Legal name change; 2019-02-15 Approval for GRS; 2019-08-02 Official gender change; 2020-03-11 GRS; 2020-09-17 New birth certificate
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Charlie Nicki

I forgot to add, I'm naturally an ectomorph so your theory could be right. Now being naturally skinny has it advantages, because losing the muscle I had built before transition was fairly easy and it helped me have a more feminine silhouette.
Latina :) I speak Spanish, English and a bit of Portuguese.
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Becca Kay

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on August 06, 2018, 07:23:08 PM
I'm one of those girls who report HRT didn't do anything for them. Besides toying with my emotions, it didn't do much. Most of my physical changes are from external things (weight loss, surgery, laser, growing my hair). I just think estrogen isn't strong enough.

I've only been a year but it has mostly been disappointing.

don't worry.  One year isn't that long.  it takes years for most of the effects to occur.  Not everybody gets big breasts though.  Even some cis women
don't. 

Not all HRT changes are from estrogen.  Many of the changes, like lowering libido initially have more to do with T blockers.   

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