I have a friend I want to tell. I don't know why and know I shouldn't (long)

[Lisa_K]

You have given me much very good advice. Now I will try to return the favor.

Ah, my young padawan. The student becomes the master and the return of favor is greatly honored.

All I will say is I think it would be a profound mistake to tell this person  No good will come of it..

Concise, direct and to the point but I wouldn't have expected anything less from you.  Thank you for cutting right to the chase.

You are not involved in a sexual relationship with this person which is the only circumstance in which you would be at all obligated to tell someone.

I touched on this earlier but what makes having a sexual relationship some ethereal obligation to tell someone? Says who(m)? I spoke to this somewhat way up yonder talking about "coming out" and probably again later when I mentioned I would rather get to know someone sexually before telling all the juicy details of my past. Predicated of course on this already being someone you knew well and there were feelings and trust (or if it was with a complete stranger you'd just met and were never expecting to ever see again.) (don't do that)

As long as you can have sexual relations and use your body the same as any other woman would, what exactly would you be coming out about? That you're something less or other? Eff that patriarchal, misogynistic bs that men are so delicate there feels might be hurt so we need to treat them special because we aren't "real" women and they will kill us which immediately puts down as something other. Why would I want to do this? Especially if I knew a man well enough and had spent enough time with to sus out how he might feel about such things. If someone likes you and is attracted to you as a woman, then just be one. Some want to make this more complicated than it is and I know there's more than one school of thought on this. There's potentially un-comfortableness involved at some point no matter how you play it. It's up to you and the situation to decide which way and when you play your hand is the bigger risk. Questions about your safety take highest priority on when you decide to tell over if you think it less of a problem to tell before or after.

Last thought on this... In these "rules", can someone clarify what constitutes a "sexual relationship"? Do we need Bill Clinton's advice? Does this involve making out? Are touched breasts a dividing line? Does manual or oral genital play count or does it just mean screwing the traditional PIV or anal way? I never got the trans handbook explaining exactly what is and what isn't allowed before humbling ourselves as second class goods.

Danger, safety and common sense are one thing. Blindly following these unwritten rules just because that's the law and it's what we are "obligated" to do doesn't exactly sit well with me because it doesn't automatically to apply to all situations or all people and I would say someone like you would definitely qualify as not all people.

Gods forbid should you and Tristan break up, but if you did, you'll probably go out in the world on your own at some point to see what's there and if you're anything like me when I was a young 20-something girl with a shiny new red Ferrari, you're gonna try different things to find out what works for you and you may even screw up and make mistakes. I sure did and it took me a while to learn what most natal girls do in high school about dating, boys and self-respect and stuff but play it by ear, be smart, know your intuition and what's in your heart without being beholden to rules probably written by somebody not anything at all like you.

If your friend "accepts"  you or not the relationship will change. It doesn't matter how close you are, if you tell her your trans she will see you as less female or "not real".

Oh, I got that. It's something all of us know or feel about the differences in how we're seen by those that know and those that don't. The way it can change things can be different for men and women too. It makes people look for or see things they otherwise wouldn't have noticed or given a second thought about. They judge not only your gender or if your level of femininity meets their standards but your physical attributes as well are suddenly "not real". I don't like that either one bit but think back to your own experience of "coming out" (hate that) to Tristan. Did it completely change what he thought about you negatively? Did it create distance or did it make you closer? Being outed against your will by or with people you don't know or don't want to know, that instant change in their perception we  immediately pick up on can sting pretty sharply and it does make you feel awful but outing yourself on your own terms to someone special you care about can be special and an important part of taking a relationship further.

There's a lot of reasons and a lot of ways people can put us down or put us in a box and how much of it you can deal with it and how much you let them get away with this crap is up to you. Personally, being just a woman without any extra modifiers or adjectives is how I'd always rather roll but not every single person in the world that knows is always going to think you are a freak or think of you as something less.

Other people may only have these judgments about you initially but once you've just been yourself and they've gotten to see who you really are, all these things fade away and don't matter. What people you don't care about being in your life think about you, like I said earlier, is not under your control and it is not your responsibility or your problem . It's theirs, not yours.

I've not had much to say about the rest of your post about how the complications, pitfalls and dangers about disclosing to someone can turn into a real sh!tshow because I agree completely and know this myself to be true by more than one experience, however, extreme stress and worry about these things and avoiding living life or putting yourself out there to make connections because you are afraid of these things happening, takes a bigger toll than them actually happening sometimes.

I would very much hate to see you outed among your circle of friends.

Yeah, so would I but in doing all this writing and thinking of all the different scenarios, I've tried to imagine what my response and attitude would be if that were to happen but it would kind of depend on how it happened or how I had learned that it had happened.

Rumors go around and if they're about you, you're usually the last to know unless someone that knows you cares enough to fill you in or warn you. Even if I told my bartender friend and she was personally responsible for word getting out and said rumors were flying around, as much as she knows I would be very upset with her, she would be the very first one to come to me and tell me what was going and I know she would cry and be heartbroken about it and feel lower than dirt. She is that kind of person, full stop. I'd also like to think the 5 guys that know and like me the best would also step up and be in my corner.

So then what? Every time I go in there there's snickers and stares and huddled conversations and I know everybody is talking about me, then what do I do? Probably cry al lot in my pillow alone by myself a bit and maybe take one or two my usual 3 to 5 day long "weekend" nights off but then most likely I'd wear my most complimented outfit, do up my look and then proudly, confidently with my head held high and with a big FU attitude, march right in and take up a seat like I have been doing since Superbowl Sunday 2017. Go ahead, come at me bro. Guarantee ain't nobody gonna F with this bar mama. Yeah, like I'm such a badass but seriously, unless things get physical, I can hold my own in a battle of words and wit.

But let's be real for a minute. This joint is pretty low-brow and blue-collar and even if we aren't in the most progressive part of the country and don't have any LGBT discrimination protections, we're also not some uncivilized backwater in the deep south and while this place may be a little rough around the edges (and the interior and the patios!), it's also not somewhere I feel that would be particularly or inherently dangerous although I would certainly be more a little more alert and on guard. I know the people I hang out with would still hang out with me. My friends have been chosen wisely. I know if they did have questions or want to hear things straight from the horse's mouth, they would ask them respectfully and not be jerks about it. I know that all of the four regular bartenders are still going to like me and all I could ever do about the rumors would be to be nothing but pleased that I was so popular that I was the talk o' the town.

Alternatively, I could just walk away from this place and never go back but losing those friends that I haven't yet established let's get together somewhere else relationships with or don't have their numbers would be heartbreaking and I would feel defeated like the world had won. I'm enough of a fighter and stubborn enough and stupid enough to rise over this and not let this social crap win or destroy me. If I wasn't, I would have never made it out of high school. and certainly never made it as long as I have.

Yes, it is hard and different when people know and I can't say how much more than I've already said about how much I don't like this but I do have to live my life even when sometimes it ain't pretty.

Cis people seem to think they have a duty to tell a guy a female he interacts with is trans. You know, so the perverted >-bleeped-< won't " trick" or seduce the poor straight guy thus "turning" him gay.

We've all heard this story, seen it in a movie and somewhere read this always happens and it seems to be a popular "how it is" perception within the trans community and there's certainly no way I can debunk this because I'm sure it has happened to some but geez! Hang out with grownups that are halfway civilized or educated and be thankful the world is more trans accepting and friendly than it's ever been (said by your >-bleeped-< granny from the 1970's!)

I'm glad you checked into the party, Julia. We haven't talked much lately but I'm glad to see you're doing well.

PS
Sucks about what happened with Tristan's mom.


____________________________________________________________________

Here's where I'm at with this and I am grateful for everyone's thought provoking comments helping me to get to this point.

I've tried to get this through my head:

1) Confiding in my friend is not a wise choice
2) Expecting discretion and confidentiality places an unfair burden of responsibility on her
3) Potential social damage by being inadvertently outed


Feelings that I still have about this:
1) I still have feelings about this
2) If I'm not going to tell her, I need to get over my feelings that I am limiting our friendship
3)This would bring us closer emotionally BUT I don't want to get too close
4) If my "big secret" gets out some other way and she hears about it, she'll be hurt I didn't tell her

[DawnOday]

As someone who hid for most of their life the joy of finally revealing my real identity has been so liberating and well worth any negativity. I did not reveal to my first wife and we ended up divorced. Luckily I found a better one four years later and she has been so supportive of me finding myself. I told her before we married 35 years ago and she never brought it up and when I revealed two years ago what I wanted to do she has allowed me to pursue my true identity. We still say I love you before we go to bed and I love you when we wake up. An interesting note, I have been taking spiro for twenty five years and it ruined all sexual impulses We deal with it with intimacy. I'ts your life, honor it. Most my friends, I have known for 50-60 years. Yes I'm that old. But I haven't lost any of them for revealing my secret. I have lost some for not supporting Trump. You might want to read through this before you decide. I know it answered many questions I had. Whatever you decide we will support you.  http://www.avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm

[EllenJ2003]

You have given me much very good advice. Now I will try to return the favor. All I will say is I think it would be a profound mistake to tell this person.  No good will come of it. You are not involved in a sexual relationship with this person which is the only circumstance in which you would be at all obligated to tell someone. If your friend "accepts"  you or not the relationship will change. It doesn't matter how close you are, if you tell her your trans she will see you as less female or "not real". Also consider if you want your entire circle of friends to know your past. Even if this person accepts you and swears not to tell anyone you're trans she WILL tell everyone the 2 of you know. You have already said she enjoys gossiping. Finding out you're trans would be a very "juicy" piece of gossip.  People just can't help themselves, trust me. Unfortunately Tristan felt we were obligated to tell his family I was trans. It went fine and they had no problem with it. However his mother told a couple of her friends. I found this out when I was over there one day and one of her friends stopped by. She looked at me like I was an alien. I at first thought maybe it was because I'm albino but it became obvious when she said I was very small and that she thought I would be much bigger. Then she asked me if I had a period after " that surgery".

Tristan later asked her why she had told that woman I was trans and she said she was sorry and that it had "just slipped out". Yeah, ok. The whole thing caused me to dislike his mother and I absolutely will not go to her house or accept any further offers from her to go places with her unless there is just absolutely no way to get out of it. I refuse to be a freak show for her friends or anyone for that matter. That could be a possibility for you if you tell your friend about your past. People are unpredictable when it comes to how they will react to a trans person. I strongly advise you to keep your past to yourself. There is absolutely no good reason to share it with anyone. Think of it like a virus. If you tell just one person, that knowledge will spread and spread fast. Please consider this very carefully. I would very much hate to see you outed among your circle of friends. Also consider that once you tell someone about your past there is a very good chance that knowledge will be disclosed to the guys you're friends with. Cis people seem to think they have a duty to tell a guy a female he interacts with is trans. You know, so the perverted >-bleeped-< won't " trick" or seduce the poor straight guy thus "turning" him gay. People make me ill sometimes.

VERY good points Julia, and pretty much in line with my experience. 

In 2006, I made the mistake of telling an ex-coworker (she was fired 4 years later due to a long term attitude problem, that made it increasingly difficult to work with her) in private, to get her off of my back (I hoped by telling her I was a post-op TS, she would see that I had been through a lot, and wanted things to settle down, so "please quit constantly nagging me, to do this or that thing to better my life" [she was quick with "giving advice" in a not so nice manner, but very poor at taking advice]).  I regretted doing so within a short time.  My ex-coworker (whom I'd only worked with for a short line when I told her about myself) turned out to be a bit of a loudmouth, and while I did not see any indication that the average person at the place I work knew about my past, there was at least one indication that she told somebody else about my past - a lesbian ex-coworker of ours (no, she was not fired - she was bipolar, went off of her meds, and not being in the best of mental states, decided to quit, and stormed out the door; she never did come back to work [despite all of my boss' efforts to get her to come back]), who one day made the comment to me about how "people like us need to stick together" (I assume she meant in an LBGT sense).  I was a bit surprised to hear it.  For all I know Jen (the lesbian) told Jenny (the coworker, who I mentioned in an earlier post, is friends with a post-op FTM), since they are friends to this day (though not very close any more, since Jen has become a bit of a drifter, who does the carnie thing), and Jenny just hasn't mentioned it to me out of respect for my personal privacy, but I'm not about to ask Jenny about it, assuming she already knows - I made that kind of mistake back in 2000 a few months before my name change, when I was under the impression from what my boss had told me, that "everybody knew about my situation."  Figuring it would be no big deal ("everybody knows"), and due to the fact that my female coworkers wanted to see what I looked like, when I was dressed up a bit more feminine (in other words wearing a skirt and sandals instead of my typical work clothes of girl jeans, girl tee), took a vacation day, and stopped off to visit with my female coworkers (who meant no malice towards me - they supported me every step of my transition), while I was out running errands, wearing a khaki skirt, a tee, and my favorite pair of casual sandals.  BIG MISTAKE!!!  It turned out the most people did not know what was going on with me (just that something seemed to be happening to me), and it caused a ruckus to say the least.  I'm not going there again.

The above two incidents I mentioned have made me VERY hesitant about disclosing to others.  Lisa, think very very long, and very very hard before you consider disclosing your past to your friends.

Ellen

P.S. - Julia, the comment about cis-people seeming to feel it's their duty to tell a guy that he's having a relationship with a trans woman - I experienced that situation in a different way when I was still working at my old job (where everybody and his dog knew about my transition), where people had the annoying habit of acting like they were duty-bound to tell just about everyone (new employee, visitor to the company, etc.), that I was transsexual, despite the fact that it was my business to do so as I saw fit - not theirs.

[Julia1996]

Ah, my young padawan. The student becomes the master and the return of favor is greatly honored.

Concise, direct and to the point but I wouldn't have expected anything less from you.  Thank you for cutting right to the chase.

I touched on this earlier but what makes having a sexual relationship some ethereal obligation to tell someone? Says who(m)? I spoke to this somewhat way up yonder talking about "coming out" and probably again later when I mentioned I would rather get to know someone sexually before telling all the juicy details of my past. Predicated of course on this already being someone you knew well and there were feelings and trust (or if it was with a complete stranger you'd just met and were never expecting to ever see again.) (don't do that)

As long as you can have sexual relations and use your body the same as any other woman would, what exactly would you be coming out about? That you're something less or other? Eff that patriarchal, misogynistic bs that men are so delicate there feels might be hurt so we need to treat them special because we aren't "real" women and they will kill us which immediately puts down as something other. Why would I want to do this? Especially if I knew a man well enough and had spent enough time with to sus out how he might feel about such things. If someone likes you and is attracted to you as a woman, then just be one. Some want to make this more complicated than it is and I know there's more than one school of thought on this. There's potentially un-comfortableness involved at some point no matter how you play it. It's up to you and the situation to decide which way and when you play your hand is the bigger risk. Questions about your safety take highest priority on when you decide to tell over if you think it less of a problem to tell before or after.

Last thought on this... In these "rules", can someone clarify what constitutes a "sexual relationship"? Do we need Bill Clinton's advice? Does this involve making out? Are touched breasts a dividing line? Does manual or oral genital play count or does it just mean screwing the traditional PIV or anal way? I never got the trans handbook explaining exactly what is and what isn't allowed before humbling ourselves as second class goods.

Danger, safety and common sense are one thing. Blindly following these unwritten rules just because that's the law and it's what we are "obligated" to do doesn't exactly sit well with me because it doesn't automatically to apply to all situations or all people and I would say someone like you would definitely qualify as not all people.

Gods forbid should you and Tristan break up, but if you did, you'll probably go out in the world on your own at some point to see what's there and if you're anything like me when I was a young 20-something girl with a shiny new red Ferrari, you're gonna try different things to find out what works for you and you may even screw up and make mistakes. I sure did and it took me a while to learn what most natal girls do in high school about dating, boys and self-respect and stuff but play it by ear, be smart, know your intuition and what's in your heart without being beholden to rules probably written by somebody not anything at all like you.

Oh, I got that. It's something all of us know or feel about the differences in how we're seen by those that know and those that don't. The way it can change things can be different for men and women too. It makes people look for or see things they otherwise wouldn't have noticed or given a second thought about. They judge not only your gender or if your level of femininity meets their standards but your physical attributes as well are suddenly "not real". I don't like that either one bit but think back to your own experience of "coming out" (hate that) to Tristan. Did it completely change what he thought about you negatively? Did it create distance or did it make you closer? Being outed against your will by or with people you don't know or don't want to know, that instant change in their perception we  immediately pick up on can sting pretty sharply and it does make you feel awful but outing yourself on your own terms to someone special you care about can be special and an important part of taking a relationship further.

There's a lot of reasons and a lot of ways people can put us down or put us in a box and how much of it you can deal with it and how much you let them get away with this crap is up to you. Personally, being just a woman without any extra modifiers or adjectives is how I'd always rather roll but not every single person in the world that knows is always going to think you are a freak or think of you as something less.

Other people may only have these judgments about you initially but once you've just been yourself and they've gotten to see who you really are, all these things fade away and don't matter. What people you don't care about being in your life think about you, like I said earlier, is not under your control and it is not your responsibility or your problem . It's theirs, not yours.

I've not had much to say about the rest of your post about how the complications, pitfalls and dangers about disclosing to someone can turn into a real sh!tshow because I agree completely and know this myself to be true by more than one experience, however, extreme stress and worry about these things and avoiding living life or putting yourself out there to make connections because you are afraid of these things happening, takes a bigger toll than them actually happening sometimes.

Yeah, so would I but in doing all this writing and thinking of all the different scenarios, I've tried to imagine what my response and attitude would be if that were to happen but it would kind of depend on how it happened or how I had learned that it had happened.

Rumors go around and if they're about you, you're usually the last to know unless someone that knows you cares enough to fill you in or warn you. Even if I told my bartender friend and she was personally responsible for word getting out and said rumors were flying around, as much as she knows I would be very upset with her, she would be the very first one to come to me and tell me what was going and I know she would cry and be heartbroken about it and feel lower than dirt. She is that kind of person, full stop. I'd also like to think the 5 guys that know and like me the best would also step up and be in my corner.

So then what? Every time I go in there there's snickers and stares and huddled conversations and I know everybody is talking about me, then what do I do? Probably cry al lot in my pillow alone by myself a bit and maybe take one or two my usual 3 to 5 day long "weekend" nights off but then most likely I'd wear my most complimented outfit, do up my look and then proudly, confidently with my head held high and with a big FU attitude, march right in and take up a seat like I have been doing since Superbowl Sunday 2017. Go ahead, come at me bro. Guarantee ain't nobody gonna F with this bar mama. Yeah, like I'm such a badass but seriously, unless things get physical, I can hold my own in a battle of words and wit.

But let's be real for a minute. This joint is pretty low-brow and blue-collar and even if we aren't in the most progressive part of the country and don't have any LGBT discrimination protections, we're also not some uncivilized backwater in the deep south and while this place may be a little rough around the edges (and the interior and the patios!), it's also not somewhere I feel that would be particularly or inherently dangerous although I would certainly be more a little more alert and on guard. I know the people I hang out with would still hang out with me. My friends have been chosen wisely. I know if they did have questions or want to hear things straight from the horse's mouth, they would ask them respectfully and not be jerks about it. I know that all of the four regular bartenders are still going to like me and all I could ever do about the rumors would be to be nothing but pleased that I was so popular that I was the talk o' the town.

Alternatively, I could just walk away from this place and never go back but losing those friends that I haven't yet established let's get together somewhere else relationships with or don't have their numbers would be heartbreaking and I would feel defeated like the world had won. I'm enough of a fighter and stubborn enough and stupid enough to rise over this and not let this social crap win or destroy me. If I wasn't, I would have never made it out of high school. and certainly never made it as long as I have.

Yes, it is hard and different when people know and I can't say how much more than I've already said about how much I don't like this but I do have to live my life even when sometimes it ain't pretty.

We've all heard this story, seen it in a movie and somewhere read this always happens and it seems to be a popular "how it is" perception within the trans community and there's certainly no way I can debunk this because I'm sure it has happened to some but geez! Hang out with grownups that are halfway civilized or educated and be thankful the world is more trans accepting and friendly than it's ever been (said by your >-bleeped-< granny from the 1970's!)

I'm glad you checked into the party, Julia. We haven't talked much lately but I'm glad to see you're doing well.

PS
Sucks about what happened with Tristan's mom.


____________________________________________________________________

Here's where I'm at with this and I am grateful for everyone's thought provoking comments helping me to get to this point.

I've tried to get this through my head:

1) Confiding in my friend is not a wise choice
2) Expecting discretion and confidentiality places an unfair burden of responsibility on her
3) Potential social damage by being inadvertently outed


Feelings that I still have about this:
1) I still have feelings about this
2) If I'm not going to tell her, I need to get over my feelings that I am limiting our friendship
3)This would bring us closer emotionally BUT I don't want to get too close
4) If my "big secret" gets out some other way and she hears about it, she'll be hurt I didn't tell her

Being involved sexually with someone is the only "possible"  good reason I can think of for telling someone. I totally HATED telling Tristan but I hadn't had SRS at that time so I had no choice. He started wanting to do more than me just giving him oral so I had to explain things to him. I probably would have told him at some point but if I had already had surgery and could have had normal sex with him I know for sure if I did tell him it would have been at a later point in our relationship. As it was we had been dating for almost 2 months when I told him and I know the fact he had that long to get to know me helped him accept the whole thing. I asked him once to tell me honestly if he would have asked me out if he had known I was trans from the start and he said no he would not have. Until he met me he really didn't know anything about transwomen except what he knew from the media so of course he had misconceptions.

As for telling anyone else, future friends for example, I wouldn't. The way I see it being born trans is an awful birth defect I had corrected. I am not obligated to share that or any other medical condition I may have with anyone. The way I see it, if you had been born with a tail and had it surgically removed, would you tell your friends? " oh, by the way I was born with a tail".  And until I was about 6 years old my brother had me convinced I actually had been born with a tail! He told me they removed it after I was born before I came home from the hospital and not to ever ask my dad about it because it made him sad. Lol! Even as a child Tyler's favorite past time was messing with me.

As for people considering you less female or not real I only know about my own experiences. I had a friend who told me she fully accepted me as female,  blah, blah. That all went out the window when she got jealous over some guy flirting with me when we were at the mall. She told me it wasn't right that all these guys always flirted with me because I wasn't even "really a girl". She also got jealous because my dad pays for my phone and car insurance. She said " you're just a spoiled daddy's girl, excuse me, daddy's BOY"!  My uncle always told me I would never be a real woman and if I had surgery I would just be a boy wearing a " female costume" I could never take off. And my mother has told me a couple of times that I need to prepare for the fact that at some point Tristan will want children and when that happens he's going to dump me for a "real" girl who can give them to him. If my own family has that attitude I hold out little hope any future friends would ever accept me as fully female and I would never tell them I was trans.

As for the need of cis people to out a transwoman to any guy she's with, this has happened to me twice. Both times it involved people who knew me from school. Once at the mall this hateful girl I went to school with and 2 of her friends felt the need to approach us to inform Tristan that I " used to be a guy". Tristan told her he was aware I was transgender and to "piss off". Then she said " well if you want to be with THAT I guess you're a fag then".  He said " you're pretty uppity for a swamp donkey aren't you"? That made her friends start laughing and embarrassed her so she scampered away.  And once when we were in line at the movies this guy I went to school with came up to us and asked Tristan if he knew I was really "a dude". Tristan said " she's not a dude she's a transwoman.  We can go outside if you have anything else you want to say mate". The guy said he was just trying to do Tristan a "solid" by letting him know I was trans and that he didn't want any trouble. Thankfully these incidents turned out ok but they could easily have been disastrous. Cis people just think they have an obligation to out a transwoman to guys. This seems especially true among guys. They think they are doing someone a big favor by telling him the girl he's with is trans.

I'm glad you decided not to tell your friend. I do understand you wanting to share your past with her but in my opinion the possible disastrous result isn't worth the risk.

[Lisa_K]

As someone who hid for most of their life the joy of finally revealing my real identity has been so liberating and well worth any negativity.

I can only visualize myself in your shoes but it isn't hard to imagine how powerful and as you said liberating it was letting the hidden side of you finally see the light of day. The strength that some of you have keeping what you know in your heart bottled up for so long continues to amaze me and then to be able risk everything you've built throughout so many years to live as your best self is certainly more that I think I could have ever done.

I am not hiding my "real identity"! I've never had alternate identities. Beyond the sanctuary of my home and family life, which means school when you're a kid, this had always made things problematic and distressing. At 15, with everyone just assuming I was gay, to quickly summarize, it was like "hey mom and dad, I'm a girl" and they were like "no >-bleeped-<e Sherlock".

Already coming from the tipping point where strangers weren't quite sure if I was a boy or a girl and getting to the place I was less confusingly just a girl didn't take much more than a few subtle cues here and there. At 16/17, everywhere except school, I was seen and affirmed as just a regular girl. A little plain maybe but I had long pretty blonde hair and others just picked up on my girl vibe, or something? At school, I was outwardly seen as that same girl, same look, same everything, no alternate identity or personality because I'd never had one but... I was known by a boy's name and it was a challenging. By the time I graduated, I'd been on HRT for a year and basically in transition for three and a quick documentation change marked the end of my social transition. That was 45 years ago. SRS came a few years later in 1977 which was a quick, discrete blip on the radar in the grand scheme of things.

From the time I was 18 and for my entire adult life, I've been seen by the world as a cisgender female with very few knowing I wasn't born that way or I have lived in stealth if that's an easier concept to absorb? People only know this about me if I tell them or they hear it from someone else I've told which is a key theme in the topic of this thread.

Disclosing my history is not a matter of revealing my real identity. That's been on display for the whole world to see my entire life and there is absolutely no joy for me in people knowing that I wasn't born with a female body. That's my opposite of joy. What all this has been about is for reasons of building trust and emotional intimacy with a close friend, I had begun to have thoughts about telling her that I wasn't female by birth. Certainly there are parallels to your situation. Disclosure takes both of us from normal to trans but for you this is a good thing. For me, it isn't. Why would it be?

...I told her before we married 35 years ago and she never brought it up and when I revealed two years ago what I wanted to do she has allowed me to pursue my true identity. We still say I love you before we go to bed and I love you when we wake up.

That's amazing and very sweet!

You might want to read through this before you decide. I know it answered many questions I had. Whatever you decide we will support you.  http://www.avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm

Glad you found something that fits. I am familiar with Vitale's theories. Julia and I would be G1s under this paradigm. We would be HSTS's under Blanchard's and if you want to go there, a Benjamin Scale type VI.

[ShotGal]

Disclaimer - this thread is TLDR.

I'm sure there are many very good responses and replies.  Here's my take.  Don't do it.  Full stop.

I've seen relationships ruined, ended or irrevocably changed from this very thing, time and time again.  It's simply a need to know thing - and they really don't.  This isn't the enlightened age popularized in the media - the real world is much harsher.  It's all risk and very little reward.

One can argue that being woodworked is closeted (like stealth is somehow bad?) - but that's really stupid when you're just being who you are without running all over broadcasting that you had some previous medical condition.  My very best friend has never once told me of her bout(s) with cancer.  I found out through acquaintances.     Not quite the same thing but it's not relevant and she doesn't wish to be perceived as "that cancer patient".  I respect that.

OK, let flip it.  What would any of us think if someone we knew for years suddenly revealed having transitioned?  Yea, we're all super accepting, but you can't tell me it wouldn't change your fundamental perception of this person.  Instead of "there's goes Bob or Mary"  it instantly becomes - "there's goes Bob* or Mary*".  With that little tiny caveat.  And that's to the most accepting people in the world.  Imagine what the other 99.9% think. 

It's always YMMV, and I didn't transition super early, but having married going on 18 years ago and moved many times (thanks to headhunters) my life is complete and intact, but also compartmentalized - and I can't ever image any scenario where I would want to break down those old walls.  My husband knew before we married - my 1/2 of the family knows (his doesn't) and a very few old friends or acquaintances scattered in different states.  It's just not an announcement that even occurs to me to blurt out no matter how close the friend is.  The closer and longer the friend has been - I think the higher the risk they will feel lied to and betrayed - without even yet getting to processing TSity.

[DawnOday]

Lisa. Thanks for the kind comments.
One of the big advantages I have over the younger members is that I don't have to worry about making a living. Because of the times and not really wanting to go to war (Vietnam) I got a decent education so I didn't have to work low paying jobs. My first job paid $4 an hour while everyone else was getting $1.65. I thought I was on top of the world. Unfortunately my education was in fire science and then I could not pass the physical so I went on to Materials Management and computer systems. Without having to worry about being found out. Transgender was not even a word until the mid 80's. I was a transvestite, a totally vile term. By then the reason for flunking the physical reared its ugly head and I have been dealing with it since then. I wish I had known all that was available in the 70's but at the time I was just trying to show my manhood and having a terrible time doing it. I don't have a femme bone in my body ahh, but my brain is a different story. I have always sought relief from daily life by crossdressing. So for a few hours each evening I had some private time.                                                                                          I admire the courage of the younger generation. I also admire the desire to take the stigma off of being Transgender. In my state the results of that activity has shown great results and our rights are written into the state law. I have a couple of grand daughters and I want them to be whomever they want to be. As most of us have found. We had no choice.

[HappyMoni]

Quote from Lisa
"Seeing as those that started and had surgery and stuff 20 years ago begin to dwindle in numbers and those 30 years ago become increasingly uncommon while those from 40 years ago seem to number in single digits if I squint and look for them really hard and think creatively, I haven't really found a "like me" community here or many peers from my generation that are actively posting at least. Consider also that those I can mostly relate to are other trans youth like Julia and Aurorasky and I'm 40 years older than both of them so "fittin' in" ain't why I'm here or I'd be pretty disappointed.

Some of you knuckleheads here have kind of grown on me though and I'm still amused if not amazed by some of crazy things I read about. Getting feedback about telling my friend has been kind of handy actually and I'd like to say thanks to everyone that hasn't seen my walls of text and run for higher ground." 


   Lisa I get it as far as you not relating to most on this sight. I respect our differences. I enjoy your perspective and am in awe at your staying power at the keyboard. lol I would say, to use an animal analogy, that all of us here are birds. You might be a swan and me a yellow breasted, knuckleheaded sap sucker, but we have a commonality of being birds. As much as we are different, we do share some aspects as well.
   Oh, I agree, that I will always be a trans woman. I have no illusions of that ever not being a part of me. Thank you for responding.
Moni

[Karen_A]

P.S. - Julia, the comment about cis-people seeming to feel it's their duty to tell a guy that he's having a relationship with a trans woman

Back over 20 years ago when I was still doing electrolysis I asked my electrologist if she would tell a male relative or close friend that they were dating  pot-op if the post-op had not revealed...

She said she would... and she was very trans friendly and was good friends with a number of her TS clients... so it most definitely is (or was) a real phenomenon.

- I experienced that situation in a different way when I was still working at my old job (where everybody and his dog knew about my transition), where people had the annoying habit of acting like they were duty-bound to tell just about everyone (new employee, visitor to the company, etc.), that I was transsexual, despite the fact that it was my business to do so as I saw fit - not theirs.

I lived through that... and I stayed on my transition job for 10 years post transition...

Anyway we probably should stay on topic as I'm sure this aspect of the conversation won't help Lisa.

- karen

[Lisa_K]

I have a couple of replies to some of the more recent comments I haven't posted yet because I'm trying to whittle them down to a manageable level because they're more ridiculous walls of text but in the mean time, I've been asked by those who were interested to keep things up to date so this wall of text is the latest and maybe the last of it?

Did my hair, stepped up the look a bit and tried to put things together in a way other than how I'd put them together in the last couple of weeks. I can go three nights a weekend for a month without wearing the same things together then it becomes a question of rotating things in different ways. It's fun to have a reason to get cleaned up and make a bit of an effort. It's hot where I live, damned hot so it's usually just shorts and a light top with lots of skin and flip flops . Classy but this place ain't the Ritz! I do throw a couple casual dresses in the mix every three weeks or once a month or so and glam it up a bit sometimes just for the heck of it and may even wear heals on occasion but I'm comfortable hanging out at my neighborhood pub in every different way depending on my mood and that's one thing that's great about it.

I've worn this a few times and get compliments. It's one of my favorites but it feels weird not wearing a bra and doesn't really do a lot for my gravity enhanced old lady bresticles. This is from a couple weeks ago, I was somewhat intoxicated when I took it and I posted it recently in another thread somewhere but sorry, I don't do faces online anywhere. Sorry to wander so off topic too.



So I walk in tonight at 10:30 and the place is packed. My special friend was behind the bar and working her butt off. There was nowhere to sit at the bar or at any of the tables in the bar area and people were standing around. I only recognized three faces that gave me a nod and there were only three other women in the whole place and I felt a bit awkward so I got a beer and ducked outside to the patio to be by myself a bit and chill. A bit later I went in for a refill and to order food before the kitchen closed at midnight and most of the people were gone. None of my normal hang out friends were there. By 12:15, the only people left in the whole place were my bartender friend and I so we talked and then talked some more. Well into the conversation, she brought up that last Sunday night,  I had mentioned there were things I was thinking I wanted to talk about with her and she asked me what they were. I was hoping she would just forget.

She didn't.

In all lightheartedness, with a laugh and a smile, I looked her straight in the eye and told her that I had changed my mind! She teasingly pried a little and I told her I talked it over with a friend that convinced me some things are better left unsaid. She reached across the bar, pinched me really hard and called me an a$$hole but it was never mentioned again and we continued on with just our regular chatty girl talk. I may have left her with a little more mystery than I would have preferred but I don't think she'll bring it up again?

The last hour found the two of us sitting outside on the patio sharing a bowl of nature's bounty. This was the most pleasant and comfortable outside evening we've had in months where some nights it's still been 100 degrees at 1:00 AM and quite drippy so with cool mid 80's temps, a light breeze and a lightning show from distant monsoon storms, we just sat and talked for an hour with both of us being even more chatty thanks to our green friend.

We talked about living alone and struggling to make ends meet and getting lonely. We talked about the relationship with her boyfriend that I've known longer than she has. She's really in love with him but neither of them have said it yet but I can tell she's really happy. She talked about her relationship with her parents and her mother particularly. I talked about the relationship I had with my folks and particularly my mom too. We were both renegades. I found out she was on birth control and sexually active at 15 but that her and birth control pills don't get along too well and she talked about her periods, pimples and boobs. I talked about how I didn't date at all in high school. She already knew I had "social problems" and struggled to even stay in school but not the specifics of what they were but how that I was, putting it politely, somewhat of a tart after I graduated and then on through my 20's until I met my husband. There's not much I haven't shared about my life except the unmentioned details.

Of course, we talked bar gossip and how my slutty friend Jennifer had hooked up with the bar's man whore Jeremy last weekend and how they were perfect for each other. Let them share their STI's between them we joked! We can be pretty awful and we were but I love it! We talked about a guy I spent four months getting close to, to the point I was willing to share my body with him but then he didn't think he was ready to be involved which was all kind of a frustrating and confusing. She didn't understand what his problem was either and said he'd be damned lucky to have somebody like me. She asked me how I got into the line of work that I do and I gave her my whole occupational history from the time I scrounged around when I was 18 doing babysitting and housekeeping to the time I got my first real job in an office at 19 and then the progression of my work life up until what I do today. She's genuinely interested in knowing about my life and sharing parts of hers she says she doesn't talk about with anyone because she says she knows I won't be judgmental.

She made one comment I haven't quite processed. I mentioned how people seem to want to talk to me and tell me things like I'm their therapist or something and she said that everyone has noticed my "gentle strength" and that everybody there likes me. I playfully asked her if she was just fishing for a big tip? She went on to say she thinks it's because people sense that I'm really comfortable with myself and who I am and again that thing about what a real and  grounded, down to earth of a person I am. Of course, she did get a bit tip! These unsolicited compliments aren't cheap, you know!

We closed down the bar, locked up and went out together. She hugged me, kissed me, said she loves me and told me it's great having me around and how it's so nice to have a friend she can open up to about things. I said yeah.

When our mutual admiration party was over, we left it at see ya tomorrow!

I came home a little high, a bit tipsy and with a warm and happy feeling just because she makes me feel good and I love the connection we have and when we get to hang out. She is such a real person too. In my heart, I still want to tell her and still may at some future point in time but for now anyway, have resolved to just keep things to myself. Y'all have convinced me that is for the best and on an intellectual level at least, I have to agree. Everyone's feedback has been appreciated.

Sorry again for my "keyboard problem". I think I need therapy?

[Karen_A]

In my heart, I still want to tell her and still may at some future point in time but for now anyway, have resolved to just keep things to myself. Y'all have convinced me that is for the best and on an intellectual level at least, I have to agree. Everyone's feedback has been appreciated.

That hardest things for me to deal with are those that intellectually I know it would be best if I did not do, but emotionally I feel a strong need too.

That is not an easy place for me to be... In the long run sometimes eventually  emotion wins, and other times not - but always only with a long internal struggle.

I think it's good thing you did not share for now... but if in say 6 months or a  year from now you are still feeling a strong need to tell her, then you probably revaluate things.

- karen