Quote from: Kirsteneklund7 on September 03, 2018, 07:13:34 AM
It seems his duality or dichotomy might be between the base animal & the higher being or the primal and the civilised ect.
I think that's what Jung meant by it for the most part, but he also claimed it was "everything we suppress" too. A person's trans identity seems to be instinctual in most people, or is there on some level beyond conscious choices, so if aspects of your real natural "self" are not only instinctive but also repressed, they're part of the Shadow as long as they remain repressed, I guess. In my case, though, not much about gender was subconsciously repressed for me, or even held back all that much by others. I think I was kind of dim, to be honest, as a child when it came to anything relating to human beings, including myself... I didn't look very deeply at it, and although I detected the presence of gender dysphoria at a young age, I never looked into why that would be; in a bit of an hermetically-sealed childhood and a solipsistic mode of analyzing the world, I never compared myself as much to others - if I had, I might have recognized what the problem was long before I did (mid 30s. Instead I mistook dysphoric feelings about the body for vanity, and my aversion to gender related social situations for personality quirks).
I was the young kid who, due to my massive lack of experience with other people, just took it for granted that I must be weird, that "life sucks", and that everyone else was probably weird and sad too inside (this was half-true I suppose - everyone knows about the problems of the human condition, but I was completely unaware of what an existence without anxiety and depression could feel like and assumed there were no such thing as truly "happy people" - I think I was quite wrong there), and suppressing my actual personality wasn't worth bothering with. So unlike many other FTM I never attempted to examine my personality, or to compensate for a lack of femininity by trying to be as girly as possible for a phase or a few years. I wasn't against femininity - I never felt like I was at war with women or anything - but I felt no need to be accepted into a women's circle, or a men's circle either. I was very much outside of every circle, just drifting through life wondering why nothing seemed quite right for me.
QuoteMy limited knowledge at this point has me seeing young biological females not taking on board the stereotypical feminine expectations right from the start.
As the teen years roll by one does not want to relinquish the masculine self and as a result never feels comfortable in the accepted feminine role.
I may be way off the mark here, but I would like to be corrected by someone who has actually lived it.
How we're treated by society is certainly part of it, but innate personality is the driving factor I think - it's what one can't help about themselves that ultimately forms the true, inescapable self. Young women's mode does change over time, for sure - I saw many of my female friends begin like me at first, tomboyish, hardly much different from their male peers, and then gradually they would all begin to drift toward more typically feminine behaviors and pastimes. I don't think it was really conscious among them as I watched them all through the years carefully to see if they were at all "like me". They definitely weren't... and they didn't seem to feel as if they were "giving anything up" as we do. Probably because to them, there is no dichotomy and no internal conflict. They just are what they are, and they do what feels natural. We also are what we are and do what feels natural, but there's a pull in different directions for us making us aware of a sense of loss and very strongly aware of a sense of that which "isn't right" within us. In my experience all my female friends grew up and changed and I seemed to be staying static, in the same place, unable to join them, unable to identify with them or the things they wanted to do and feel, and I never really discussed the problem with them for much further clarification... but from them I definitely sensed that their transitions from child to women were emotionally "painless", or happy and desired even... while mine was an exercise in internal squirming and wriggling away from people and roles at every opportunity. Ducking out of life, for the most part. I was able to become romantically involved with a couple of men through the years for the reason that one only needs to look like a woman to really please some of them, and I was looking for some sort of companionship. I didn't have it in me to take on the feminine role there, really - I just made sure that the thing was on equal footing and responsibilities from the start, and that was about it. I suppose now that I think about it, I wasn't really looking for a regular relationship unlike my female peers, who almost all have gone on to have kids and be married, and seem to be happy with their roles. I've escaped roles, but the price to be paid for that is of course that you are not really a part of things, you're on your own, and its uphill all the way. Freedom usually comes with a measure of loneliness.
QuoteYou pointed out one's soul - having a contrived soul. I often think our souls don't have a gender per se - but we are given bodies in this life - we are dealt cards that we have to make the most of.
Yeah, by soul I mean just the entirety of our inner selves as we know it and perceive it... like if I had to say what made me what I am, there's the unknown biological factors, but also all the introspection and those moments in life when you say to yourself "I want to be ______" or "I want to be like X person", when you're inspired by something and consciously move toward being that way yourself. Those female friends of mine had a natural quality about them, as did the male friends - in fact I felt everyone in the world must be and act fully natural but myself who seemed awkward and had to look into everything and didn't usually have a smooth answer to a question. I feel that my personality was built up mostly from trying to be like something or someone who inspired me, rather than it coming naturally from within, so I thought it was contrived to be that way by my own desires and for some time it felt false. Over the decades though, it eventually does seem to become what you are. I think I have a definite personality now. Or maybe I'm just a super-slow developer. (I do tend to be late to just about every party). But one thing was for sure that wasn't contrived, and that was dysphoria. I thought it was probably some fault of my own, but it really was just an aversion to certain things that came from somewhere within. I suppose in some ways, the dysphoria was the only true expression for a while of what I really was. And I ignored it for ages.
QuoteIt's ironic when we are children we can often " just be". Just be ourselves - our yin & yang hanging out for all to see - dysphoria doesn't necessarily exist.
When we enter the teen years we have to transition but not on our terms.
We are expected to transition from child to woman or child to man.
I do wonder how it is that other people experienced puberty. Because I knew all about it from parents and what was coming a couple of years before it happened and I wasn't happy about it. They all said I'd be cool with it after a while but I never was, and ofc I think that was purely gender dysphoria rather than the general weirdness of puberty a lot of kids feel. I was angry about it. I remember wanting to grow up for logistical reasons - so I could get out of the house and go to university away from my parents arguing with each other - it wasn't a desire to cling to anything I already had. But given the role it was pushing me toward and the attention I was getting from males and the changing expectations of my parents, in all it wasn't a pleasant experience. (Whose puberty ever is though, I guess.) I grew up... but I didn't really change. I still seem to have the same sort of brain and way of looking at things as I did at the age of 19. I never was - due to being trans I suppose - able to truly mature into an adult that goes off and creates their own family. I was just stuck in the post-pubertal mindset, never to graduate. I'm not sure if that's good or bad for me, really. I don't quite know what I'm missing, but I know I'm missing something profound. I also don't think I could ever really have it, everything it just a bit too messed up in my case.
QuoteI personally found it disappointing when some of my friends could keep their femininity & become women & I had to relinquish mine.
In a way I had to transition from female to male against my will.
Kylo did you find you had to relinquish your natural masculinity & that didn't feel right ?
Honestly I didn't relinquish much, but I think I had an advantage there that you did not... that is, people will tolerate a lot of strange behavior and tomboyishness and lack of productivity from someone they perceive female compared to someone they perceive male. I was able to drift around and not alter my natural masculinity much at all, so long as I looked like your average straight woman.
The only time when I was not able to avert issue was with sexual matters. Men would approach me a lot and my average instinct toward this was indifference, or aggression. I didn't like how men generally approached women - or me - because I could tell what they were after, which I didn't have much interest in, and I felt most of the time the flattery was utterly laughable, or that anyone falling in love with me was after all, falling in love with just an image in their own mind because they didn't know the half it, and that half would terrify and repulse them if they did. And if they got pushy I didn't know how to handle it any differently than the average man handles it when another man tries to grab his arse. As a result there were some altercations, and I generally avoided anyone who showed interest in me. When I did eventually get involved in relationships, the relationships and the people were fine, but there was always that fact that the female sexual role was extremely emasculating to me. I did try very hard to find a way to like it, but I never really could. That always made sexual relationships something of a dead-end for me... something I would like, like everyone would like, to have a partner they like and trust... but for me there was always a sense that I was sacrificing a great deal internally and psychologically to be able to have it. When things get bumpy, it occurred to me that I felt like I had "sacrificed" more than they had just to be in a relationship, and explaining that was awful. It made them feel bad too, because they could understand the idea of being emasculated and didn't like the idea they were inflicting it unknowingly on me.
There was also the fact that I had the sort of personality that wouldn't be dominated in a relationship, so I ended up with people who were either the same as me, or submissive. That's not a problem in itself, but it can get very frustrating when you have the sort of personality that likes a challenge, but you end up with people who don't. But not the worst thing in the world to have to deal with.
QuoteI could also go on about my experience of self harm but I will spare you the details - the end result is parts of my life I felt like a robot - I was going through the motions but my heart wasn't in it . Other times the opposite was true.
Although I cannot relate to having to lived a suppressed life, I can imagine how awful that is and how difficult it is to cope with. During my own life I have had issues that I dealt with through writing, or drama, or art though. Those things have got me through living in this unhappy predicament by allowing for some escapism and acting out through productive channels. Especially drama classes with other people. I recommend that for anyone trying to deal with pent-up emotions and a lack of interaction at the same time. It sounds a bit daft but I think it can actually help you find yourself better, to get into another headspace for a while.
QuoteYou mentioned not so much a repressed self pushing back - but a physical self not matching the heart and soul.
You intrigue me Kylo - I would love to know more. Please tell me how testosterone and transition felt. What did you discover?
Testosterone changed the way my mind works quite profoundly... I was always too much in touch my my emotions in some ways and they tormented me; HRT brought me back a bit from that edge and gives me the ability to think clearly without becoming too emotionally involved. Its a bit like the "white noise" in my brain being tuned out, along with the little doubts and worries that were always seeping into my mind. I imagine that for MTF who feel as though they need to be more in touch with their feelings, who do not want to feel detached or robotic, then taking the female HRT will bring them the same kind of immense relief and sense of being able to feel one's true self. Estrogen does seem to alter the way your brain functions - if a male brain is a series of separate compartments for things and men are good at compartmentalization (which I'm now able to do and I find it quite helpful) then a female brain is like a large compartment with all the smaller compartments inside, or all the compartments are continuously connected to each other... one thought process leads quickly to another and everything is intertwined somehow. I think dreams are more emotional on estrogen for sure, whereas my dreams are more like a crazy slideshow now and I don't wake up feeling as if I got all that involved. For me that's a relief, because I used to have intense dreams about people I didn't like trapping me in situations I didn't want... but for someone who would like to have a more sensual experience of life and dreams in general, female HRT is probably the ticket.
I feel much more balanced now - the intense emotions I felt are tempered, the sadness and doubt and intrusive worries are mostly gone from my brain. I'm sure that's the HRT and not just wishful thinking, as I was pretty skeptical that HRT would even help me before I took it. I also ended up much calmer. I used to get into towering rages - I think because of the cumulative frustration of my life just getting worse with time, my anger also got worse - and now I pretty much feel none of that. I spend much less time arguing with people and worrying about what they think, and I'm more friendly because of that lack of worry about what they think. I had some surgery this year and I'm surprised that the result of the surgery is that I just no longer worry about those body parts. They're gone now and it's as it should be to my brain, so I just feel as though things have been smoothed over. I wouldn't say I'm ecstatic about it or anything - it's just the sort of satisfaction you get when you had a cut and it heals over finally and stops hurting. You don't think about it much as such, but you do appreciate that the nagging wound is gone. There's been lots of subtle changes especially psychologically, but they've all been positive. I didn't turn into an aggressive jerk, like people thought I would, and I just feel like someone whose finally recovered from a very very long nervous breakdown or something. It's a bit odd describing it that way, but true.
QuoteWould being biologically male bring resolution ?
You mean full transition or would being actually male and XY resolve it all? Hm, it's not really necessary. I'm not all that at odds with myself or my body to that extent, and I'm quite happy now - happier than I've ever been in my life just on the HRT alone. I think of myself as male and other people can think what they will, really. The HRT and the chest surgery definitely brought me more than I could have hoped for in terms of peace... and if I get the rest of it done, I'm sure that will just be like adding a finishing touch. The main slog is over now, and I'm still the same person, I just seem to lack the dysphoria and the anxiety and a dimension of stress I used to have. It would be nice if I had all the perks of an XY development but I'm mostly content with who I am and I think the worst of sorting all that out is behind me, so where I am now seems to have brought enough resolution. I'll continue on with the rest of it, but it's very important that you be content with yourself as a person inside first for the easiest ride. It's not been too tough for me because I reckon I went through the worst of it all trying to figure out who I am and if was worth existing back in my early 20s - which was horrendous, but it's in the past now, thank God.
