Waxing / waning dysphoria, doubts, and non-transitioning trans people

[lavish staircase]

I have heard this, too, and I think it is a harmful urban legend, unfortunately spread by our own community.  Gender roles and presentations are certainly social constructs, but gender identity is biological.  It is not determined by our genitals, but it is something that we are born with.  We would still have gender identities even if society abolished all gender roles.

Spot on! I use to use the whole "Social Construct" argument with myself, trying to intellectualize the dysphoria away. (Spoiler alert: It didn't work) It's reductive, to say the least.

Having very recently acknowledged mine and opened up about it, I feel better. I came out to my therapist, and scheduled my first appointment with an endo today. I know part of feeling less dysphoria is because I know I am doing something - not because I feel less of an aversion to my maleness, or feel less feminine. I am making the best moves I can make, which is all I can ever do. Right now, I am in a good time, place, and location for me to make these moves, so of course it's easy for me to say all of this. Were I in another place, time, etc. who knows. Regardless, hang in there, tigers - to make it within 50 miles of here takes guts!

Has anyone found the faceapp makes them look eerily like their sister? Like really, really, like their sister. I mean, it makes sense...

[pamelatransuk]

I generally break 'gender' down into gender identity, gender presentation (including role) and gender orientation, with gender presentation and role being the primarily socially defined elements, and identity and orientation being largely innate properties that reside within the brain.

This alone is an eye opener for most cisgender audiences, and walking through the explanation of these elements can take the better part of an hour.  This is stuff that may be familiar to us, but it is built on concepts and ideas which have never occurred to most people in the course of their lives. Even socially defined elements of presentation and role are not likely to be understood as such, but assumed to be the result of 'natural law' or similar handwaving, as invisible to members of society as the water is to a swimming fish or the air to a bird.

Precisely. Cispeople have such a hard time understanding (as they don't spend time thinking about it as we do) the difference between the three; whereas to us the separation is obvious due to our bodies not aligning with the more powerful and significant brain.

We are born with our gender identity and as a separate entity our sexual orientation.

Hugs to all

Pamela

[RobynD]

I have heard this, too, and I think it is a harmful urban legend, unfortunately spread by our own community.  Gender roles and presentations are certainly social constructs, but gender identity is biological.  It is not determined by our genitals, but it is something that we are born with.  We would still have gender identities even if society abolished all gender roles.

I struggle with this thought, rather i'd like to say,  Identity is self-determined, sometimes it is consistent with biological characteristics that are generally recognized, sometimes not. We may be born with it, and in most cases, this seems to be the case, but for both identity and orientation, there seems to be a fair amount of exceptions. Not to say that Wikipedia is the end all but it sort of talks about that here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity

I'd love to see the body of evidence that says it is determined as early as 18 months and decided by about age 3, (refined to about age 6) but that is another discussion. So while I agree there is often an identity formed in the womb, it does not always seem to be the case. This would seem to explain folks that transition with little or no dysphoria and although many really sort of bristle at that, I'm not sure why..

I like Michelle's thought a bit better in that it is usually a characteristic of birth. In the above article, it says a lack of direct language at these ages, causes experts to make assumptions. Cool, but also a bit scary. So what happens between birth and 18 months? Maybe identity catches up with hormonal differences? Maybe something else at times. (socialization, parents etc.) We see brain differences in trans women that look very much like cis female brains to be sure. Is this structure present in the womb or does development post-womb also contribute?

In societies with 3rd genders, it would seem that sociality allows for something different.  Such an amazing and interesting thing.

[justChloe]

@LucyEgo wow, so much of what you wrote resonates with me. I've also struggled with feeling some shock at my feminine presentation because it's not quite the image of the woman I wish I could be. I suppose when it comes down to it, the choice is between that woman who might not be everything I wish to be, and the man that I don't really at all want to be. @CandyFreedom phrased this much more eloquently with "I can live on the margins of manhood, or I can live at the center of womanhood." I love that!

I think masculinity can also be something of a shield. It's easier to navigate public spaces as a male and not worry too much about your appearance being scrutinized. You can disappear, at least that's how I've felt. Part of the fear I feel comes from knowing I will be giving up that safe hiding place. It's terrifying at times, but lately the desire to be myself more often and more openly has been growing, and even rivaling the fear. It's taken a while to get used to seeing myself in female presentation. I'm an artist, so I started sketching portraits of myself as a woman, really trying to embrace the details I wished weren't there. It's like exposure therapy, and has been helping a lot. Maybe you can find something similar? Create yourself in a game like The Sims or Second Life? I also used FaceApp early on . The doubt is maddening for sure. It's a shame many of us are struggling with this, but also comforting to know we're not the only one's who feel this way. I can't express how affirming it's been to hear you all relate your experiences to what I wrote at the start of this thread. I never imagined anyone was having even remotely similar experiences!

[VickyS]

How is it going friends?

There's so many things it looks like a can relate to Chloe on. I don't however think our voices are unique. I think a lot of people have these waxing, waning, doubting episodes. We're trapped by our circumstances - external (work, relationships), internal (sense of self, shame, guilt).

This is SO true.  Pretty much all of my doubt and anxiety is based around external factors and how I'm going to interact with others and the public and how they view me.

It is certainly a strange thought process, being comfortable seeing myself in the mirror as a man, and being uncomfortable seeing myself as a woman because it doesn't match the woman I think I should be.

I this this is spot on.  It's not that we feel 'wrong' when dressing as a woman, just that it doesn't match what we SHOULD look like in our head. Thank you so much for posting this, it's incredibly helpful. 

I am scared Im making a huge mistake. I am scared that Im reading too much into it, that Im talking myself into it. Why can't I just accept that cards I've been dealt and be the "man" Im supposed to be. I've said elsewhere that I can be a feminine man, I could wear more flowing clothes and take better care of my appearance (metrosexual). Could I manage it like that?

Again, same here.  I also think is there a psychological reason why I'm feeling what I feel?  Could it be cured with therapy so I could live happily as a man but then the thought of that honestly disgusts me.  It's not that I find men disgusting at all, I LOVE them!  But disgusting is the only word that seems to fit how I feel if you know what I mean.

I hear that Gender is a social construct. But when you're a man and just want to be treated as one of the ladies and be let into that circle but there's a phallic barrier in the way. It's depressing.

Very very much so - to be let in to the circle.  I think gender HAS a socially constructed element of course, but it's hardwired into our brains, well the research so far seems to point to this.

There's relationships, family, my significant other, work. And what if I start down a path. How soon do I tell my partner? Do I risk losing her on a whim? But what if things progress significantly with her that Im then unable to explore myself? What if I start to transition but find out it's a mistake? How would I cope with telling the people around me - I made a mistake.

Oh my god.  1000% what I went through.  I did not tell my wife until 3 months after I realized.  I wanted to find out first before risk blowing my marriage apart if it was something I could 'cure'.  I told my doctor, manager at work and mother before my wife.  She knows this and throws it back at me in arguments, but I told her it was too important to risk it, plus her mother was dying at that time so the timing was REALLY bad.

I wish there was a magical button you could press to find out. If I had no partner and was living alone, I think I'd have probably done something about this a long time ago. I would have had no problem transitioning. The problem isn't how I feel about it. It's how I might affect other people for what might just be a whim.

It's not that I fear living a lone. I fear surviving in a world that revolves around money, being without food and shelter because I've got to pay some exorbitant rent, loads of bills, cell phone, phone, gas, electric, taxes, water, food, car costs etc. 

So much of my standing still is probably nothing at all to do with gender. I probably don't care if I do get it wrong. I just fear losing everything.

Again, I felt and feel the same way, but some days it's so strong that I don't care if my life DOES come crashing down, I HAVE to do this, then other days I'm doubting again... 

Trouble is, I get virtually no time alone so I can't really experiment with makeup and crossdressing much at all, but the little I have done felt wonderful and that I think speaks volumes.

[Rayna]

In the past week I feel that I've reached a lot of clarity about myself. My gender therapist said I'm pretty confident and resolved, and "gender fluid" is about as accurate a term as there is. I go back and forth between male and female (I'm AMAB), and am even comfortable playing in the middle.

How this relates to the OP is that I also wax and wane. Yesterday I went for a long hike as female. I feel that sorta got it out of my system for the moment and today am presenting male. Tomorrow probably back to female for awhile.

There's clearly an enormous range of experiences and identities here. The adventure continues.

BTW about the faceapp, when I present female my wife says I look like my sister!

Sent from my Victor 9000 using Tapatalk

[RobynD]

The days I am presenting as masculinish are probably not that masculine by many folks definitions. No matter if I am in a T-shirt, jeans and converses - I still have pretty big boobs, to minimize them is way too much effort. But I've struggled with both the compulsion to present is,  or expectation of what being trans is in terms of femininity and I've felt the loss of anonymity at times.

This along with the other losses I have experienced hurt and sometimes a lot, but what I'm beginning to come to an understanding of myself is that I am what I am, kinda a quirky, rebel of a woman with much to offer the world and those around me. Whether I wear makeup every day or hardly ever, whether I am in a dress, whether I am in jeans and a moto jacket, whether I am talking soft and melodious or not.

When I first started this journey, like many I was very concerned about details. What hairstyle? what clothes? is my style feminine enough? what about piercings and jewelry? will I ever be able to do cat-eye eyeliner? ( ha...not going to happen ) Etc. Maybe that is a necessary thing and was necessary for me to go through but I expended a ton of energy on it and I'm kinda burnt out on it at this point.

It was never about passing for me but at times I felt things like ... " Why did I even go through all of this if I won't even pierce my ears?" what a stupid thing I know, but I beat myself up about it. To me, the most important things are your identity, your comfortability as yourself and are you surrounded by love and support. Everything else is a detail.

[VeronicaLynn]

I've had a lot of this. I get into cycles that I get really caught up in whether I am binary trans or non-binary or genderfluid. I've come to the point that it really doesn't matter what label best fits me so much as what I want to happen. I want to fully transition physically, regardless as to what label I want to use. I used a similar type logic to get me to start electrolysis, maybe I can use it to get me to finally make the call(s) needed to start HRT...