Name and gender change prior to SRS

[Audrey]

Has anyone been able to change their gender and name on their birth certificate at the same time.  I am considering a new job that pays far better than the one I have now and would like to try to eliminate the possibilities for discrimination as best I can.  Not to mention people not really knowing my past.  I am tenatively planning on SRS in the fall and have the funds, would I have to get a letter from my surgeon to get them to change the gender.

Audrey

ps I live in MT

[Annie Social]

Of greater concern for job purposes is Social Security. While gender is not shown on the card, I have heard of the SS Administration sending a letter to an employer when the employers records and those of the SSA don't match. They won't change the gender in SS records without proof of surgery.

[Kate]

They won't change the gender in SS records without proof of surgery.

They aren't supposed to, but it seems a few people here managed it somehow.

~Kate~

[Annie Social]

True, but I wouldn't count on it.

[Audrey]

I'm going to get a letter from my therapist saying that I am undergoig irreversable medical procedures to become female leading to SRS and that I wish to change my gender to help avoid discrimination.  I figure worst case scenario they say no.

[gothique11]

I guess it would depend on where you live.

I've had my name legally changed. My gender, however, can't be changed on my birth certificate, drivers licence, SIN (social insurance number, it's the Canadian version of a SS card), etc, etc. I could change, however, my provincial health care card, and so I did that. So, half of my ID says Female and the other half says Male. I've heard of some people around here "tricking" the registry offices into changing the gender (technically fraud, but I don't know of anyone who actually got in trouble because of it). Some provinces here, however, will allow you to change the gender on your drivers licence and provincial idea, while some don't. I can get a passport, however, and have my gender changed on here as long as I can get a doctor stating that I'm in the process of transitioning and going to have surgery. The passport, however, is only valid for a year unless you can prove you've had surgery by the end of the year.

So, yeah, and I don't think you're in Canada, so the states is different and different states will have different rules on what you can change and not change.

I hate that my ID has a big M on it because I've had to show that to every employer I've had. It really sux. I don't know if they noticed or not. I get ID going to clubs and I haven't and anyone notice... they just look at the birth date and really don't think. I've worked at a liquor store, and after checking ID's all the time, you get to the point that you're not going to remember anything off that ID or care about anything on there...

--natalie



Posted on: January 02, 2008, 10:54:57 PMOh, and it might be possible to go to court to get your gender changed. I hear that's how in other provinces gender got changed. I was considering doing that until I realized that I have no $$$ and would be in court for a long time. There was talk of a class action suit against the province for in sighting discrimination, but I don't know if that went anywhere. Plus, Canada doesn't actually really have any real legal protections for trans people at all. I know that they are trying to pass that law, again, but I haven't heard when it's going to be put the table and if it's going to pass.

--natalie

[seldom]

Generally speaking most states as well as the federal government require SRS for document changes.  There is no such thing as  stealth in the US without SRS.  Plain and simple.  If you slip through the cracks you are essentially extremely lucky.

Also if you are worried about discrimination from the employers, you should not bother seeking a job there. 
Taking you are in Montana, you will probably need the surgeons letter.

Also the type of letter you describe is insufficient for the SSA.  I am really sorry, considering everything you provided you have less then a 1% chance of this happening.  If this was California it would be a different story.  But legally speaking the two states are worlds apart. 

Seek out a new job when you have SRS and can change all your documents.   It is very unlikely to happen beforehand. 

[Martine]

Generally speaking most states as well as the federal government require SRS for document changes.  There is no such thing as  stealth in the US without SRS.  Plain and simple.  If you slip through the cracks you are essentially extremely lucky.

In the U.K we can change all our details regardless of SRS (In Scotland we can also change out birth certificate very easily). We have different rules but have to prove we have been working for over two years with our new ID and details before any referrals for SRS can be considered. I changed my ID in 2004 and so far none of my previous ID or details have ever been found. You have to be stealth in order to survive and there is no reason in the U.K why this cannot be acheived. In the U.K we are not requested to show our birth certificate to employers and also do not have to disclose that we are transsexual.

[IsabelleStPierre]

In the states the rules vary by state, so it's best to look into what's required in your state. In Missouri you can go to court and get your name and gender changed...the rule here that you have irrevocably altered you body...the statute doesn't specify that it has to be SRS and some of my friends have gotten their gender changed...other's have not. It really depends on the judge you get.

Your other documents require a certified letter from the doctor that performed your SRS...the one exception is the passport agency, you can get a one-year temporary passport in the gender you want, this is for those traveling outside of the States to have SRS, but once you return you need to provide the letter stating you had SRS to the passport agency or you passport will expire and your gender revert back.

In the states we do not need to show our birth certificates when being hired, we do need to present a number of forms of ID and some are easier to change then others and this often leads to being outted. The main problem is that there is not uniform requirements across all the organizations and that is what makes it difficult.

[Martine]

In the states the rules vary by state, so it's best to look into what's required in your state. In Missouri you can go to court and get your name and gender changed...the rule here that you have irrevocably altered you body...the statute doesn't specify that it has to be SRS and some of my friends have gotten their gender changed...other's have not. It really depends on the judge you get.

Your other documents require a certified letter from the doctor that performed your SRS...the one exception is the passport agency, you can get a one-year temporary passport in the gender you want, this is for those traveling outside of the States to have SRS, but once you return you need to provide the letter stating you had SRS to the passport agency or you passport will expire and your gender revert back.

In the states we do not need to show our birth certificates when being hired, we do need to present a number of forms of ID and some are easier to change then others and this often leads to being outted. The main problem is that there is not uniform requirements across all the organizations and that is what makes it difficult.

It looks like the U.S is a much worse place to be if you are TS. We don't have to go to court to change out name and ID. We can just go and see a solicitor and pay a small amount of money and everything can be changed from there (Driving licence, National Insurance Details, Passport, Bank cards & statements, emplyment records database, Travel cards, Birth citificate ( Scotland only), P45, P60 etc.

I've made sure every avenue is covered and so far the path is clear and no records of my previous ID is retained. It took a lot of work but it can be achieved. We do not have to get involved in the fact that we may or may not be pre or post SRS and that is not the requirement needed for changing all ID protocols. In the U.K living and working as a female in your new ID for two years is required by psychiatrists before they will exept you as a candidate for SRS. So here it's almost the reverse to the U.S.

[seldom]

In the states the rules vary by state, so it's best to look into what's required in your state. In Missouri you can go to court and get your name and gender changed...the rule here that you have irrevocably altered you body...the statute doesn't specify that it has to be SRS and some of my friends have gotten their gender changed...other's have not. It really depends on the judge you get.

Your other documents require a certified letter from the doctor that performed your SRS...the one exception is the passport agency, you can get a one-year temporary passport in the gender you want, this is for those traveling outside of the States to have SRS, but once you return you need to provide the letter stating you had SRS to the passport agency or you passport will expire and your gender revert back.

In the states we do not need to show our birth certificates when being hired, we do need to present a number of forms of ID and some are easier to change then others and this often leads to being outted. The main problem is that there is not uniform requirements across all the organizations and that is what makes it difficult.

It looks like the U.S is a much worse place to be if you are TS. We don't have to go to court to change out name and ID. We can just go and see a solicitor and pay a small amount of money and everything can be changed from there (Driving licence, National Insurance Details, Passport, Bank cards & statements, emplyment records database, Travel cards, Birth citificate ( Scotland only), P45, P60 etc.

I've made sure every avenue is covered and so far the path is clear and no records of my previous ID is retained. It took a lot of work but it can be achieved. We do not have to get involved in the fact that we may or may not be pre or post SRS and that is not the requirement needed for changing all ID protocols. In the U.K living and working as a female in your new ID for two years is required by psychiatrists before they will exept you as a candidate for SRS. So here it's almost the reverse to the U.S.

Until you realize our medical system, while we have to usually pay for it, is a hell of alot better for TS.  NO RLT for HRT.  Cheap LGBT clinics in big cities. No years long waiting list.  Personally I think despite all the crap the US is better. 

Also the two year requirement for SRS is also very weak.  The UK has such a strict gatekeeper policy medically speaking that it delays transition for several years, that is if you are allowed to medically transition.  Yeah...we have to pay for it in the US, but the system itself here is SIGNIFICANTLY more trans friendly medically speaking.  Yeah the documentation is a pain.

Also changing the gender with the SSA is the most important thing...that requires SRS.  Some people have lucked out here by going into SSA offices instead of doing it through the mail.  But for the most part that requires a surgeons letter stating you had srs.  The Birth Certificate is minor compared to this.  Please remember SSA has no match letters for gender which will out you. 
Thats why if you are planning on going stealth SRS should be a priority.  As it stands there is going to be a significant amount of document incongruity which will out you and there is no way to change it without SRS.

I know this is all disappointing, but realize documentation changes are a big benefit of getting SRS in the states.  Otherwise you have to deal with incongruent documentation.

Basically speaking UK vs US.  UK is awful because of the NHS and crap gatekeeping that takes place there for everything from surgery to SRS.  The only upside, which is a VERY VERY weak one is documentation. 
US on the other hand you have to pay for medical care and HRT (which LGBT clinics have made much cheaper) and surgery, but the gatekeeping is minimal at best.  No gender clinics, and a transition path that is largely self directed. 

Personally I rather get transition out of the way and pay for it then have to deal with all the crap Berleigh has described with regards to the NHS.  Also starting hormones before I went full time made going FT much easier socially speaking.

[Martine]

Until you realize our medical system, while we have to usually pay for it, is a hell of alot better for TS.  NO RLT for HRT.  Cheap LGBT clinics in big cities. No years long waiting list.  Personally I think despite all the crap the US is better. 

Also the two year requirement for SRS is also very weak.  The UK has such a strict gatekeeper policy medically speaking that it delays transition for several years, that is if you are allowed to medically transition.  Yeah...we have to pay for it in the US, but the system itself here is SIGNIFICANTLY more trans friendly medically speaking.  Yeah the documentation is a pain.

Also changing the gender with the SSA is the most important thing...that requires SRS.  Some people have lucked out here by going into SSA offices instead of doing it through the mail.  But for the most part that requires a surgeons letter stating you had srs.  The Birth Certificate is minor compared to this.  Please remember SSA has no match letters for gender which will out you. 
Thats why if you are planning on going stealth SRS should be a priority.  As it stands there is going to be a significant amount of document incongruity which will out you and there is no way to change it without SRS.

I know this is all disappointing, but realize documentation changes are a big benefit of getting SRS in the states.  Otherwise you have to deal with incongruent documentation.

Basically speaking UK vs US.  UK is awful because of the NHS and crap gatekeeping that takes place there for everything from surgery to SRS.  The only upside, which is a VERY VERY weak one is documentation. 
US on the other hand you have to pay for medical care and HRT (which LGBT clinics have made much cheaper) and surgery, but the gatekeeping is minimal at best.  No gender clinics, and a transition path that is largely self directed. 

Personally I rather get transition out of the way and pay for it then have to deal with all the crap Berleigh has described with regards to the NHS.  Also starting hormones before I went full time made going FT much easier socially speaking.

I wish I could have SRS tomorrow! but I have been fighting the NHS for an SRS referral for 3 years despite a 4 year RLT. They make it very difficult for a person to access referrals for SRS in the U.K. The NHS is not a free service, we pay very high taxes and our national insurance contributions go towards the NHS which is supposed to help us if we need medical help. But in reality it doesn't and most of us find we have to pay for our treatment privately. In the U.K we usually pay for most of our NHS medical care anyway, especially NHS dentists who still require a cheque after any dental treatment is done. The NHS is really a myth when it comes to treatment in the gender field and from my own experience I had to go private in order to start on hormone therapy.  Berliegh's story is not uncommon and many suffer the same problems if they go the NHS route.

[Berliegh]

I wish I could have SRS tomorrow! but I have been fighting the NHS for an SRS referral for 3 years despite a 4 year RLT. They make it very difficult for a person to access referrals for SRS in the U.K. The NHS is not a free service, we pay very high taxes and our national insurance contributions go towards the NHS which is supposed to help us if we need medical help. But in reality it doesn't and most of us find we have to pay for our treatment privately. In the U.K we usually pay for most of our NHS medical care anyway, especially NHS dentists who still require a cheque after any dental treatment is done. The NHS is really a myth when it comes to treatment in the gender field and from my own experience I had to go private in order to start on hormone therapy.  Berliegh's story is not uncommon and many suffer the same problems if they go the NHS route.

That's true......my story is a common one which only highlights the problems facing those new to the NHS GID system.....

[Audrey]

Well I found that SRS is required for gender change.  So I ll have to wait for that.  But I am going to submit my petition for name change today.     I am kind of nervous as I am not sure of the judges reaction.  I think it will go well though.

[Audrey]

do i turn the form in directly to the judge and appear the same day ?

[Audrey]

Thanks for the run down.  i always like to get a general idea of what is going to happen when i go into any process.  Did you just fill out the petition or the other papers like the notice of hearing etc.  or do i wait till after the petition is filed

Audrey

[Audrey]

YES.  I did it.  I finally got my name change petition in.  All I have to do now is get my notice in the paper on monday and the rest is history.    A funny thing happened though as I was there renewing my registration also.  The lady thought that I was renewing it for someone else until I showed her my id.  I kept having to tell her "no that is me".   I have custom plates and the computer said they were relinquished and all this other nonsense which took a while to get through.  Well anyway I need to get my letter for SRS from my therapist eventually and get a second opinion, which I think I have another therapist lined up already.  So it looks like things are falling into place.  I would like to get my surgery sometime in the late summer.

[joannatsf]

You can change your name and gender on your birth certificate if you were born and reside in California.  You should work with an attorney that is familiar with transgender law.  The statutory law says you must have "gender enhancing surgery", whatever the hell that means.  The judge has discretion and there are ways to get around the surgery requirement.  I did so myself.  Transgender Law Center in San Francisco can refer you to lawyers in other parts of the country.  Good Luck!

[Audrey]

I am not sure it is worth the hassle right now as i plan on my OP in a few months.  It would save me from having to backtrack on legal documents but oh well.

Audrey

[Berliegh]

I am not sure it is worth the hassle right now as i plan on my OP in a few months.  It would save me from having to backtrack on legal documents but oh well.

Audrey

Audrey, you are getting your GRS quite quickly and easily considering your age, wht kind of paperwork or referrals (from whom) do you need in the U.S for GRS? I am envious as I have been fighting the NHS for a referral for about 4 years now in the U.K..