For a mtf woman, when is transitioning “over”? Are we always transgender?

[ChrissyRyan]

For a mtf woman, when is transitioning "over"?  When we assimilate into society and live as a woman?

Even after transitioning is over, are we always transgender (mtf) women?  After all, after a caterpillar transforms into a butterfly, it is known simply as a butterfly.  We are not of the male gender, we are of the female gender.  Many of our bodies may, externally at least, correspond with our female gender.

Are we ever simply accepted as women, and not as transwomen, as if we were born female?

If yes, does that require passing so well that people not knowing of your past have never thought of you as a transwoman but just one of many women?  Or does acceptance by others simply require kind, tolerant, understanding people even if we do not pass well?  That they respect our wishes to be accepted as women because we are women, that they not deadname us, that they use our preferred pronouns, and that they treat us fairly and like ladies?

How much and what transitioning do we need to have completed until it is reasonable for each of us to be thought of by others as a woman?

What do you think?

Chrissy

[Meghan]

For a mtf woman, when is transitioning "over"?  When we assimilate into society and live as a woman?

Even after transitioning is over, are we always transgender (mtf) women?  After all, after a caterpillar transforms into a butterfly, it is known simply as a butterfly.  We are not of the male gender, we are of the female gender.  Many of our bodies may, externally at least, correspond with our female gender.

Are we ever simply accepted as women, and not as transwomen, as if we were born female?

If yes, does that require passing so well that people not knowing of your past have never thought of you as a transwoman but just one of many women?  Or does acceptance by others simply require kind, tolerant, understanding people even if we do not pass well?  That they respect our wishes to be accepted as women because we are women, that they not deadname us, that they use our preferred pronouns, and that they treat us fairly and like ladies?

How much and what transitioning do we need to have completed until it is reasonable for each of us to be thought of by others as a woman?

What do you think?

Chrissy

I think I always live the rest of my life as a Transgender since I am transition from Male to Female.

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[Shambles]

I think we're always transgender but that's not a bad thing, it shows our history through life and what we've had to face.

As for when is transition over? Cis girls there's always going to be tweeks they make on appearance throughout their lifes, be it hair clothes or even boob jobs but they're not transitioning. For me it's full time and happy with the shell that my soul is in, doesn't have to be perfect but at a stage with no / little dysphoria. Then it's onto the normal tweeking.

[Dani]

For those of us who have completely transitioned, we will always have a transgender medical history. 

However gender identity is mostly a state of mind and when your self identity matches your physical body, nothing else matters. 

[KathyLauren]

I think that the definition of transgender is that your gender identity does not match your sex-assigned-at-birth.  So I think that you are always transgender.

Most trans women want to be accepted as women.  If people treat me like they do any other woman, then I am happy.  In most cases, the people I meet do.

Your transition is over when you say it is.  I will likely consider my transition over once I have had GRS, although I will continue to learn how to be a woman for the rest of my life.

[TonyaW]

I think that the definition of transgender is that your gender identity does not match your sex-assigned-at-birth.  So I think that you are always transgender.

Most trans women want to be accepted as women.  If people treat me like they do any other woman, then I am happy.  In most cases, the people I meet do.

Your transition is over when you say it is.  I will likely consider my transition over once I have had GRS, although I will continue to learn how to be a woman for the rest of my life.

That's what I was going to say!.

Yes we are always transgender. Maybe transition is over when that stops being a main focus of your life.

I kind of break it down to 3 types of transition; legal, social, and medical or physical.

I'm done with legal, name is changed, documents updated. 

I've been full time for 15 months about so pretty sure I'm done with social also.

Physical or medical is over when you say it is. 

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[Devlyn]

That's what I was going to say!.

Yes we are always transgender. Maybe transition is over when that stops being a main focus of your life.

I kind of break it down to 3 types of transition; legal, social, and medical or physical.

I'm done with legal, name is changed, documents updated. 

I've been full time for 15 months about so pretty sure I'm done dith social also.

Physical or medical is over when you say it is. 

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I love this breakdown. 

Hugs, Devlyn

[jill610]

I am going to buck the trend here and be unpopular.

Medically, genetically, we will always be "transgender".

However, we need the healthcare directed towards our end state gender. Our health issues align with the cis gender. As a trans woman, my risk of breast cancer increased, my risk of aneurysm decreased and my risk of prostate cancer decreased. For example.

Trans, by definition means to change.

So if I identify as a female, live as a female, socialize as a female, and in every way, am a female. Why would I still consider myself "trans". I just happen to have been born with a different body. I do not identify as a trans-woman. I identify as a woman. The further along in transition I get, the less I identify personally with the term trans.

When a caterpillar emerges from her cocoon, she is a butterfly. She is not a caterpillar with wings. She transitioned from one state to another, and the transitory phase completed. She is a butterfly.

Just my 2c.

[TonyaW]

Medically, genetically, we will always be "transgender".


So if I identify as a female, live as a female, socialize as a female, and in every way, am a female. Why would I still consider myself "trans". I just happen to have been born with a different body. I do not identify as a trans-woman. I identify as a woman. The further along in transition I get, the less I identify personally with the term trans.

You spelled it out much better than I bothered to, but that's what I meant as in I will always be transgender.

The last part here I quoted was  what I was going for as my suggestion as to when transition is over. Also much better stated than I did.

This isn't in response to anything you said, just something I wanted to add. It's up to each of us to identify as we choose but we should always remember that we are women first and that trans is an adjective and it should always be written as two words or hyphenated as some adjectives are. It should never be "transwoman", as that separates us. I'm sure I've screwed that up on the past but came to this realization a while ago.

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[herekitten]

What Jill610 said for me.

[Michelle_P]

I am an older woman, at 65.  I am also a lesbian, with a 30% chance of queer.   I got this way by being a transgender person.

For a mtf woman, when is transitioning "over"?  When we assimilate into society and live as a woman?

Even after transitioning is over, are we always transgender (mtf) women?  After all, after a caterpillar transforms into a butterfly, it is known simply as a butterfly.  We are not of the male gender, we are of the female gender.  Many of our bodies may, externally at least, correspond with our female gender.

We are women.  Being a transgender person simply and broadly describes the path we took to arrive at this stage of our lives.

I completed my legal transition fairly quickly, filing for a court date as soon as I went full time, and filing for various document changes the day I got my court order.

My social transition took place within the first two years of full-time life.

My medical transition is essentially complete, with some finishing touches that I desire to be taken care of in a few months.

Are we ever simply accepted as women, and not as transwomen, as if we were born female?

If yes, does that require passing so well that people not knowing of your past have never thought of you as a transwoman but just one of many women?  Or does acceptance by others simply require kind, tolerant, understanding people even if we do not pass well?  That they respect our wishes to be accepted as women because we are women, that they not deadname us, that they use our preferred pronouns, and that they treat us fairly and like ladies?

How much and what transitioning do we need to have completed until it is reasonable for each of us to be thought of by others as a woman?

What do you think?

Chrissy

Being accepted by women as a woman is really not under our control, but is up to them.  Some political/ideological/religious factions will readily accept us as women, welcoming us into community, and treating us as just one more member of the club.

Others, not so much. 

Passing so well that others cannot detect or identify that one has a transgender background will help being accepted by a broader range of women, but...  should some of those women subscribe to an unaccepting political/ideological/religious belief system, expect to be shunned by them and possibly others if one's background becomes known to them.

It is easier to associate with the kind, welcoming and accepting folks, and frankly, I prefer them to the folks who judge and cast out people on demand of their belief system, as I find them to be judgemental and intolerant folks.  I don't like that.

I chose to be open about my transgender history.  Woodworking, that is, disappearing into the woodwork and trying to hide my history while living life as a ciswoman is appealing at times, but to me, personally, this feels inauthentic, and I would be living my life while hiding something that if known, could cause others around me to reject me.

By being open, others can be free to accept or reject all of me, and I know that my friends will stand by me even in the face of my having to deal with issues around my transgender history.  Yes, I will have fewer friends, and yes, huge swaths of people that I would otherwise identify with will openly loathe me and misgender me, but I absolutely know where I stand with both my friends and those who loathe me.

I'm OK with this.

We are each done with our transitions when we are comfortable in our own skin, and exactly what it takes to reach that point is up to us.

[Nina]

"So if I identify as a female, live as a female, socialize as a female, and in every way, am a female. Why would I still consider myself "trans". I just happen to have been born with a different body. I do not identify as a trans-woman. I identify as a woman. The further along in transition I get, the less I identify personally with the term trans. "

^^^^^yes!^^^^^^

[Rachel_Christina]

We will always be transgender yes. Key to truly moving forward as a women, is accepting and not giving a damn about our pasts. For we will not change them anyway.

[Memento]

I don't think anyone should feel obligated to refer themselves with any labels they don't want to. If someone wants to drop the trans from woman, I don't see the issue. The same goes for anyone who wants to keep the label for the rest of their life. Other people may label you as such, but you are by no means obligated to be visibly trans. Let's respect that we're all on different paths and no transition's the same.

For me, the whole point of transition was to successfully assimilate into society as a woman, and I've done that. So I suppose in that way, I'm no longer trans. The physical and social aspect is over with. The final step will be getting my correct passport, but it's not like anyone's going to see that. Of course I still float around here for medical and legal advice, so that's a little contradictory. Well, life's weird.

I guess it's different for everyone, but if you're not comfortable with the label, drop it. However you choose to present yourself will eventually become what most people know you as.

[Devlyn]

I guess it's how you phrase the second question. You may or may not identify as transgender, but you'll always be transgender in the medical sense.

[DawnOday]

There is an element that will never think of us as women. There is an element that thinks there is no such thing as trans. Heck there is an element that does not even think us human but rather some demonic being out to destroy the world. I'm one of those that think if, I cannot birth a child, as hard as I try, I can never be a woman. Just a transwoman. It's strange because when I came on Susan's I kept telling Archlord how lucky she was to be so beautiful and that she should be proud how she turned out. I mean she documented her transition and we saw the results and were so impressed. What I didn't now at the time. What she had to go through to become beautiful and that she still didn't feel complete. I do hope Archlord is finding the loving relationship, the home, the family she desires. She was beautiful (heart) before she transitioned.  I just want to be the best me, I can be, whatever configuration. But I feel the female model is more attuned to my well being. Meanwhile I'll continue therapy and work to find happiness. I will continue to advocate for others so no future generation will have to suffer what I have been through. The mere fact I no longer suffer from depression makes the journey I started a couple years ago, well worthwhile. It would be so much easier if I could have started my transition in the 60's, 70's. If God had answered my prayers, as that was the only way I would end up female at that time.

[Colleen_definitely]

I guess it's how you phrase the second question. You may or may not identify as transgender, but you'll always be transgender in the medical sense.

That's how I feel.

Now as far as whether or not "transition" ever ends?  Sure.  When I'm done making the swap from assigned to whatever I identify as then I'm pretty much done with transition and I'm almost there.  All of zee papers are taken care of, I've been full time for well over a year, and come Monday all of the surgical tweaks/upgrades/remodels are going to be done.

Honestly I kind of viewed my transition as being mostly over after getting my identification fixed and getting comfortable with full time.  The rest of it was just fleshy details.

[EllenJ2003]

This is a semantics issue.  The "trans" in transgender (or as I prefer, transsexual, since transgender is such a broad umbrella term, that includes people I am not [such as cross dressers, non-ops, etc.], and I'm not a fan of generalizations) means crossing over from one state to the other.  Once you're finished crossing over gender-wise, the trans no longer applies IMO.  If I do describe myself with regards to the whole "trans" thing (which I don't do very often), I prefer to say that I'm a woman, who happens to have a transsexual past, with the emphasis on the woman part of that statement.

Ellen

[barbie]

IMO, this is essentially an ontological question in metaphysics. You can define it as whatever you like to call. This has been a perennial topic in this site, but it is basically philosophical arguments between realism and nominalism. https://www.thoughtco.com/nominalism-vs-realism-2670598

We may have better pursue epistemological goals in the real world.

Cheers,

barbie~~

[Beverly Anne]

I know this is going to seem flipping crazy, but privately I've never considered myself transgender, although I've fully embraced the community. I can't remember a time in my life when I ever accepted the assigned male at birth label. Now, I played that role, but I always saw it as just that, acting. I've always been female in appearance, didn't go through male puberty, no body hair or beard, and grew small breasts instead. As far as I'm concerned, I was born with a small birth defect, which I will be getting corrected soon. I may be in a minority within our community, and I'm not suggesting it's inaccurate for others to use it, but how can the prefix "trans" accurately apply when my gender has always been female? I just can't accept that. Has anyone else ever felt this way?