Passing, FFS & looking good enough

[KimOct]

I am biting off a lot on this topic but I have a lot to say - This will be my mini - manifesto lol on being transgender.

What prompted me to write this is that this past Saturday I was at my local transgender group which is a blend of a social group / support group.  We discuss topics and then go out to eat afterward.  The members are primarily MtF post transition but a few FtM and a few pre-transitioners also.

A new member shows up MtF about 6'4" very strong masculine features receding hairline - my age 50s - no makeup wearing a very feminine bright chiffon dress.  I hate admitting this but I took a double take and was ( whoa !! )

Which is very hypocritical of me and here's why.

I am constantly advocating about being openly transgender - not being ashamed of who you are.  I don't pass all the time not even close.  I am almost 6'2" and somewhat overweight.  I am legally female - birth cert DL name whole deal and am on E and had an orchie.  But I still look very transgender in person.  My profile pic is legit but it is a good picture.

I am very torn on FFS and I am going to contradict myself here.  On one hand do I want FFS?  Absolutely.  But health issues and money make that problematic.  On the other hand my rational thoughts tell me why do I want it?  I never wanted plastic surgery before I transitioned.  It is because I want to be perceived as female.  But women are born in all shapes and sizes. Some are pretty, some are not, some big, some small -etc.

A person's appearance does not define who they are or even what gender they are.

We tend to place people on a hierarchy of who looks more passable - how much we have changed.  I am guilty of it too I just posted on the before and after thread.  It's not just the rest of the world that rates us as being more acceptable based on how feminine we look - we do it to ourselves and within our own community.

And some people have no desire to have surgery.  Are they somehow 'less than'?

I am definitely contradicting myself  I realize that, but I don't like feeling marginalized because I am not pretty enough and even worse - I shouldn't do it to others either.

You are who you know you are - not what you look like to others.

[tgirlamg]

You are who you know you are-not what you look like to others...

Kim!... My much beloved and respected little sister!!!...

Thank you for this post... You do indeed have much to say on this important subject...  I am going to confine my remarks, at the moment to the subject of "passing" ( with or without FFS ) for the moment...

What you have expressed here is what I consider the 2nd crisis we encounter in our transitions... The first being the GD itself... How others see us... How we see ourselves... How we want to be seen versus... Why should we have to do anything to be seen as who we know we are?...  When, YES!!!... Women (Cis and Trans)... come in all shapes and sizes!!!

This crisis is not discussed that much around here... I think doing so is hugely important because, it is often not completely anticipated and can hit even harder than the factors that drove us to transition in the first place...

I believe that most of us go into transition, not completely knowing what awaits us on the other side of the door we are about to walk through... We do however have hopes... To some degree or another we hope we will be accepted (and see ourself) as women, across the board ...if we put in all the work of transition... The hormones, the surgery, the hair removal, the voice training and on and on... Sadly, across the board acceptance relies on others who have no investment in us or our mental well being. This makes those we encounter, in everyday life, a constant possible source of disappointment, stress and pain...

I believe this hurdle, the 2nd crisis of transition, must be cleared through our own perspective... We cannot change the perspective of all those we will ever encounter and trying to do so would be a lifelong losing game... passing as a cis woman to 100% of the people... 100% of the time is a high bar to hit... even with all the things we put ourself through to get there

My current mindset took me a while and much painful reflection to arrive at but, it has carried me far...

If people I encounter see me as a cis woman... that is fine but, I would never lie to convince them that I was cis... (I lived lies long enough)

If people I encounter see me as a transwoman... that is fine... that is my truth!

If people I encounter see me as a pathetic, surgically mutilated, middle age man in women's clothes... that is okay too... That may very well be their truth, as they see it, based on their unique experiences and beliefs and I am not looking to them for my sense of self... Perhaps on their list of priorities in life... learning the intricacies of communication with trans women... (about 1% of the population)... is pretty far down on the list... In the end, it is their life and theirs to prioritize in the manner they choose... Whether or not that choice serves the ideals of respect and civility, as we see them...

My way of working through transitions 2nd crisis may not be what is right for everyone but, for me... this perspective has offered me freedom to move forward and claim life...as I said, it is an important discussion to have here because I think it is something we all face to some degree or another... and we don't always see this freight train coming as we move ahead with the highest of hopes...

It saddens me deeply to see those who arrive here, filled with despair that they will never get what they want out of all this... it is my hope that they will give consideration to embracing the possibility that happiness and fulfillment can be found without hitting that 100% passing mark...seeking that mark comes with its own set of challenges and if we give ourself no wiggle room... can be a quick path to utter misery.. 

When we seek to just pass as ourself... we ALWAYS pass and we are open to all the journey has to offer... Our every interaction needn't be filled with worry about being discovered... They can be chances to make real joyful connections between our true inner self and the world around us... I believe that most of us here are seeking that true connection through our transition.... 

Onward we go brave sisters!!!

Ashley 🙋‍♀️💕🌻

[KimOct]

WOW - When you 1st reached out to me and we became friends I knew you were kind and smart but holy crap !!   

Very well said Ashley - You expanded my thoughts to another level.  Like my signature line says - The first transphobe you have to conquer is yourself.  Just when I think that task is completed I sometimes realize it is still a work in progress - such as when I had the reaction to the newbie I mentioned in my story.

FFS is such a complicated subject to me and is like an onion with many layers as far as it's meaning and the desire to have it and I always admit that I wish I did / would but I do think it is important to work through the motivation which is also related ( not exclusively ) to passing. 

Some of it is reducing gender dysphoria and looking like who we feel inside, I think some of it is for passing / acceptance and for me at least some of it is my own still not entirely conquered transphobia - I still care somewhat what strangers think. 

But it's not just FFS - some of are just genetically fortunate and look more feminine.

It really doesn't matter - what does matter is doing the work inside our heads and to realize that no matter how we reach our goal and come out the other side - whether it is how we imaginged it or not ( not how I imagined it ) that we are still legitimate and as much a woman as any of our trans sisters.

And if you do get FFS - try to get it done as well as Ashley !!

Thanks for weighing in Ashley and your wisdom from a different place on this journey. 

[Julie -2010]

I am fortunate that my size and features help me to look more feminine. I'm 5'6". I wish I looked as good as some of my profile pictures turn out.  Other trans friends comment that I'm so lucky because of some of my features.  Yes I am, but I'm still struggling every day to accept me.  I've known this all my life and ran from it and I have worked hard to try and blend. I started going out but not really being around people.  Slowly I worked at being around some people but making sure they weren't very close to me.  I kept trying to stop from being read.  I'm now out so much more and around groups of people and places I never dreamed I would go.  Almost every time I know I get read as trans but it doesn't bother me as much.  I'm becoming more OK with me.  I have friends that can't pass very easy but I just love how they just accept themselves.  Slowly getting there.  It has been a long road and I think I'm getting closer to where I want to be.

Julie

[KimOct]

Thanks so much Julie for adding to this.  I think that is a big part of what this is all about is accepting yourself.

Those of us that can't pass often wish we looked like you, but there is always another side of the story.  My trans therapist told me she has some clients that are completely passable but they struggle because they feel like they are living a lie.

My knee jerk reaction - is - must be a nice problem.  But with further introspection I do realize there are benefits to not passing.  You have to learn to accept yourself and being trans.

Everyone on this journey has challenges and we should respect those challenges and the differences of all our journeys.

[dee82]

My 2 cents.

Looks are important. But they don't make you happy.

I know a cis woman who is incredibly attractive with good looks. But she confides her unhappiness inside. Outwardly I look at here and think I cannot believe, how can someone so beautiful, and find life difficult?

Good looking people are always the successes who find things come easy for them. Or so we are told.

That is just a lie we are sold to make us consume more. Pick up almost any women's magazine and you can see the theme. What is fashion and the advertising industry largely built around?

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to look good. (I'll ignore the question of who decides what is good enough.)

The problem as I see it is, if my attitude is "When I reach this point in my transition, then I can be happy!"

Then I fear I will never reach that point, there will always be someone better/smarter/more whatever than me and I will look to them as my new goal.

Unless I can be content, right now, in all my mess, then getting/doing/achieving that next goal, may not be the answer.

I intentionally switched from happiness to contentment, because I see happiness as a trap. Sure everyone want to be happy, but if happiness is the end in itself, I think it increases the risk of failure.

Maybe I am playing semantics here with happy vs content, but I think there is a fundamental difference which is important but hard to put into words.

I hope what I am saying makes sense in the context of FFS and looking good enough.

All I know, is that I don't think I pass most of the time, but I know that does not stop me going out of the house dressed as a woman (the way I want to be) and having a good day.

Yes, I want to look good. Yes, I want to pass.

But I am finding people are treating and accepting me as a woman right now, and that's what is most important to me.

~Dee

[KimOct]

Yeah, that is part of it too Dee.  You mentioned that you wondered if it was on topic and I think it is.  In my mind this is a very complex topic.  Most cis women have issues regarding their looks more so than men in general. 

I think it is exacerbated for many trans women because of the fact that if we appear visually as male then we don't fit in supposedly.  And then there is the issue of our own internal transphobia ( that this is something to be embarrassed about) which is why we don't come out until we find the courage.

I really liked your thought about happiness vs contentment.  It's not settling, it is being realistic and willing to be OK with yourself and the world and not looking for something unattainable. ( wanting )  very Zen of you. 

I hope other people add their related thoughts to the original topic even if it is on a tangent.

[Maid Marion]

The Beauty Myth by Naomi Watts.  (from memory!)
A big issue is that CIS women constantly judge each other.  Women dress to the nines to get better service from SAs.  SAs selling handbags make big bucks on commissions, so they are biased toward customers that look like they will buy expensive handbags.
I've read that Taylor Swift events are a big judge fest as well.  Now I'd like to go and see for myself someday...

In TV and Movies I've seen recently women who get to make the big decision wear high heels and expensive clothes. Often in their own big office.

So, yes, society continues to bombard CIS woman with these not so subtle hints that dressing is important.

As a CIS guy I didn't care how looked.  I wore dress shirts that should have been replaced.  It all changed when my wife started worrying about me staying employed.  Not only did I study fashion, but I've sculpted my body over the past decade through diet and exercise  so that I fit wonderfully in XS/S women's clothes.  And yes, I do dress to go shopping.  But no body dysphoria, as I like how I look.

My wife also suggested I learn to "let it go."  Not getting into heated Internet discussions, for example.
I've gotten to the point where I no longer have to correct someone just because they are wrong.

[tgirlamg]

Kim!!!

Your thread here was on my mind a bit since yesterday and some wonderful contributions have been put forward here above!!!...

My first post here dealt more with our relationship with the outside world but, since you touched quite a bit on how appearance issues color our relationship with other transwomen ( both online here and in real life)....I would like to share a few more thoughts... (Note: Some of this has been taken from a post I made here a while back but, I thought it spoke well to the subject at hand!)

Everyone coming here to the precipice or transition has needs... The needs we encounter along the transgender journey can be huge ones indeed... The need to make changes to our outer shell to finally reflect what we feel is inside us can be HUGE... The need to know that others see what is inside us, by way of our outside presentation, can be HUGE... Complicating matters is the fact that we can feel that we lose all ability to assess our own changes or make any accurate judgement about how others see us... As a result... We often look to other transwomen to be our mirror and provide that feedback...

Sadly sometimes, others can be a source of disappointment when we don't get what we are seeking from them...When we feel we are not getting the feedback we seek, our minds can go into a negative spiral as we imagine all the possibilities why... Our thoughts can often end up settling in a very negative place where we feel there is something wrong with us... This spiral, is a mental process that I am not totally unfamiliar with! 😀

Transition, by its very nature, is a time of intense focus on self... That focus is an important part of this but...Sadly, that fact can also make it a bit more difficult, at times, to get what we want and need from other transwomen (online and real life)... Our path is so unique that we look to others on the transgender journey as a yardstick of our progress and our only sources of true understanding of the complexities we face...

My HOPE, is that we all try to always remain cognizant that this place can be an emotional minefield of sorts and we need to always take care how we travel through it... There are always emotions at play here... Some times apparent and sometimes a bit more hidden but, they are always here and in our care... affected by our words, actions and even our lack of action as well...

Love... Kindness... Empathy...Truth... are always winners around here in my book... We are all in the same boat... we have to be gentle with ourselves and gentle with the others in the boat as well... Who knows?,...This voyage might just end up in a really beautiful place...

Hugs, Love and Eternal Respect to All My Fellow Travelers,

Ashley 🙋‍♀️💕🌻

[KimOct]

So this may seem like a bit of a love fest between Ashley and I on this thread but I think there is a lot to share here.

Ashley and I come at this from different places.  Ashley has went to great effort - time - cost and physical discomfort to reshape the body into the vessel that is right for her.  But through this process she has retained and gained the insight and wisdom she has earned.

I on the other hand have been able to do very little physically.  Orchiectomy - estrogen - some face filler injections - electrolysis.  I don't look very different than I used to.  A little but not much.

These very different paths have taught us some similar things but in different ways. 

I think it is great to look at all of the emotional and psychological challenges of transitioning because if you don't face and accept them and rather just bury them you will carry that baggage with you always.

Thank you Ashley for contributing and I hope others continue to give their thoughts or concerns for themselves and others.

[Allison S]

I don't know what "looking good enough" is or what the ideal is. It's always changing and I'm pretty sure makeup is a big part of it. I don't know... I just embraced myself because everyone already viewed me as a "girl". Being trans is a very strange experience. Not being happy with how I look in almost every (important) aspect... Isn't that everyone? Or so I thought. I'm not sure if I pass... I think I blend in and people may see me as a crossdresser or as trans. So what? As long as I'm not disrespected for it, then it doesn't really make a difference. I never was a hetero male anyway.
I just don't want to delude myself to think I pass. I'm much better off accepting who I am because being trans is my truth.

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk

[barbie]

Happiness is determined by me, not by others. And beauty or looking good is  just one of many factors of it. Just focusing on appearance is misleading and even can be dangerous.

Social interactions after transition will be more critical.

I just enjoy taking care of myself right now.

In the flight to Seoul

barbie~~



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[Rayna]

Thank you Kim. I agree this is an important topic, and relevant to many of us (based on other posts that dance around this).

For me, I will always have to be content with myself and not let others' judgement cloud my contentment. This is inherently difficult and I'm not always successful. But as you said, I can't control what others will think or say. I just need to be strong within myself and let it wash past.

I doubt I'll ever have surgery, and maybe not HRT. I have to be Ok with whatever I can do with what I have.

I do want to be treated as a woman when I present that way. But I'm not sure how far I'll ever get with that. Again -- it has to be for myself.

Thanks again,
Randy

[KimOct]

Yes Randy I agree with you.  That is the point of this topic.  Whether you have every surgery possible GRS, FFS, BA whatever else you can do or if you have no surgery at all or somewhere in between like me the challenge is to be OK with yourself.

The tough part about that for me was ( and still is a little bit ) is that we have been part of society prior to transition just like everyone else.  We have been conditioned that this is something to be embarrassed about or even ashamed.

I told a gay cis male friend of mine - that had just came out a few years before - after he told me how hard it was to come out I said to him - can you imagine if you had to walk around with a big sign that said 'I am gay' when you first came out?
He really woke up to that and told me it would have been much harder.

As Ashley said this whole thing about passing - FFS etc is a minefield emotionally.  Regardless of what you do with your physical body you have to get your mind in the right place.  Even for those that easily pass or are stealth - many have told me they feel like they are living a lie.

If you are truly at peace with being trans I am very happy for you and you should be proud.  I am approaching being at peace regarding being trans but my journey continues.  I hope these thoughts help those that are on early steps of the journey.

The first transphobe you have to conquer is yourself.

[Maid Marion]

How hard is it to put a genuine smile on your face?

This seems to be the hardest part of passing.  Being able to enjoy the moment with a smile on your face.

What do you have to do to get there?

[Rayna]

How hard is it to put a genuine smile on your face?

This seems to be the hardest part of passing.  Being able to enjoy the moment with a smile on your face.

What do you have to do to get there?

Haha, I just laugh at myself. That puts a smile on my face. I mean really, I have to appreciate how ridiculous I am. Yeah I wish I could pass, and sometimes I probably get away with it, but when I'm caught in the headlights I try to just laugh. Maybe the other person can laugh with me.

On the other side, sometimes I just feel great presenting as female, and I feel so good I get a great big smile on my face. These times are the best. Not all that often however.

Most of the time I'm just interacting with somebody as another human, and I try to smile because that makes people like me better. Doesn't mean I actually do it, but when I remember to do it, it works.

[KimOct]

What do you have to do to get there?

A simple question which is well put.  Each of us has to answer that one for ourselves. 
I just hope to add food for thought.

[Julie -2010]

What do you have to do to get there?

A simple question which is well put.  Each of us has to answer that one for ourselves. 
I just hope to add food for thought.

Seems like a simple question but it is something I'm been dealing with most of my life.

Julie

[KimOct]

And I think the answer is going to be different for each of us.  But with some courage - introspection and the help of others including here I think we can all move in that direction. 

For some people they prefer not to look at deeper questions and that's fine, whatever makes you happiest and at peace.
But for those of us that have struggled in different ways I think it is important to ask yourself why and consider the opinions of others.  Choose the ones that fit and cast the ones that don't to the side.