possible Aspergers (ASD) diagnosis and feeling non binary

[mischief_brew]

It's been a while since I've been on here because I've been stalling a bit in knowing how to move forward in terms of my transition. I changed my name aaages ago and identify non binary to all the people around me but I haven't persued surgery or any low dose t yet, due to a lot of indecision and general bad mental health. Yay for that.

The thing is, when I recently saw a new occupational therapist for a mental health assessment they seemed pretty sure that I might be on the autism spectrum and referred me for an assessment for aspergers (ASD) which has really shaken up how I think about my gender all over again...Not helpful!

From what I am aware, it's very common for AFAB's with aspergers to not associate with their assigned gender, to prefer socialising with boys, be tomboyish as a child and to have gender confusion. I'm really worried that the only reason I've ever felt disconnected from being female, and unhappy with my body is because of my autistic traits and that I would never feel like things were 'right' even if I did have top surgery (something that I used to very definitely want). Same goes for testosterone - although I'm more sure about having my chest removed than t, because I think that it would enable me to be more androgynous rather than obviously male, and that feels safer to me in terms of accomodating my current gender fluidity. Part of having aspergers is feeling 'other' and like you don't fit in or understand your peers so everything that I previously attributed to dysphoria and transness is now being framed in a different way in my mind, and I don't know what to do about it...

Is it valid to still want to transition regardless of a diagnosis of aspergers? Also, I don't deal with change well, and I'm worried that even though I *think* that I want surgery and hormones, maybe when it actually happens I'll freak out and wish I could go back to having the body that I know, even if it feels weird and wrong or annoying.

It would be great to hear from anyone who also has an aspergers/ASD diagnosis but general comments welcome too... I'm feeling rather lost

[Maid Marion]

I think it is important to decide what you really what.  Long, term, after you have reached your desired gender goals.

The mistakes I've seen result from short term thinking.  This isn't working, so I need to try something else. 

I'm am one of those are "in  between" individuals, so I'm quite familiar with the advantages and disadvantages of both genders.

I think female Aspies have it easier because a passive role is easier to fake if you have social anxiety.  Guys have to take the lead which is really hard if you don't understand social clues.  But, being a guy is better if you are outgoing and confident.  Life is simpler as a guy.  No need to spend time on fashion and makeup.  Guys don't judge other guys the way women judge each other.  But, guys don't support each other they way girls do.

I think guys still have it easier in the workplace, though things are changing.  There are those out there who still value the opinions of men more than women.

[Artistic_Gene]

I've been reading a book about nonbinary AFAB people's experiences and one of the contributors is a nonbinary person who was diagnosed as Aspie/ASD and has a very interesting view on their gender. I can't recommend Challenging Genders by Micheal Eric Brown and Daywalker Burill enough.  It's a valuable read.

[mischief_brew]

Thanks both Maid Marion and Artistic_Gene.

I'm still going back and forth over how to proceed but I feel like maybe I'll never be sure one way or the other. I'll try to check out that book recommendation - always looking for new things to read relating to gender. Thanks again

[transspoonie]

Hello! I'm autistic ("official" diagnosis pending on time, money, and safety concerns) and went back and forth on whether I was nonbinary multiple times throughout my social transition. At first, I thought I was genderfluid, but definitely not a man. Then, I realized I was a trans man, and I thought that meant I couldn't be nonbinary. Finally, I realized I could be both a transitioning trans man and nonbinary—a demi-man, specifically.

At no point in this process, since realizing I wanted to transition, did I regret my decision. Not when starting T, not when getting top surgery, and not when researching and pursuing options for bottom surgery. I'm more open to change than a lot of autistic people I know (not that it doesn't stress me out, or make me second guess myself). I acclimate more quickly when the change "feels right," I guess.

Despite this, I panicked on and off before my top surgery, fearing the change would be too much for me. And now, lying down without a 5 lb weight on my chest two and a half weeks post-op, I can barely remember what it felt like having them. Like, if I concentrate I can, but it feels as foreign as imagining two water balloons taped to my chest.

You're the only person who can know, decide, and come to terms with the trials and tribulations of transitioning. But from one AFAB, nonbinary, autistic person to another, I've never been happier in my life. Don't be afraid to trust yourself and trust the supportive professionals who want you to be the best person you can be.

Also, contact a gender therapist in your area if you can; doubly so if they have experience with autism (like my first therapist did, a marriage and family therapist who specialized in both autism and gender therapy). I'm not sure I'd be as comfortable with my gender, or my autism, if I didn't have her help. A good gender therapist won't discount your identity because you're autistic.

- Alexander

P.S. I have a hunch (based on a lot of reading, and a lot of first and second-hand experience) that autism has a strong correlation with gender nonconformity and being transgender. Not that it makes you "think" you are, but that it genuinely increases the likelihood of gender variance in the brain/during development. Food for thought; I'd scrounge up some (reliable, scientific) sources, but I'm still foggy from anesthesia/general surgery recovery, and I've already typed a lot today.

[SeptagonScars]

Having asperger's can definitely complicate your dysphoria and relation to gender, but it's not certainly the whole reason. I'm afab, have asperger's (officially diagnosed back in 2005) and been dysphoric all my life to some degree or another. I transitioned and ended up regretting top surgery but still happy about what T did for me. Cause I didn't understand myself well enough when I started and went through my transition.

Turns out some of my disconnect from other women has a lot to do with that I'm just naturally more androgynous as a person, and that I don't understand gendered social cues, which are likely due to my asperger. And me disconnecting from my body also has some to do with that. I have a more "male" thinking pattern, more logical than emotional, would rather have solutions than comfort, more visual than feeling, etc. Those are personality traits often considered "masculine" which also often comes along with autism spectrum disorders. Which I mistakenly took as a sign that my gender is male, when in fact it's not. Or, at least not entirely.

But for me there are more factors playing into how I've misunderstood my gender and my dysphoria over time:
- That I'm a lesbian makes me further disconnect from womanhood and traditional femininity. Cause attraction to men is considered a big aspect of femininity, according to society and its heteronormativity, and it's a huge aspect of "being a woman" that I completely fail to relate to in any sense.
- That I have a lot of past of traumatic experiences made me hate my female parts because they essentially felt dirty and badly sexualised. Although I was always aware of that aspect alongside my dysphoria, I had completely miscalculated how much of my dysphoria was just those trauma response feelings. Because I also hated those body parts because they were female and I unknowingly connected my traumas to being female.
- That I also have dissociative issues due to those traumas as well, makes me disconnect from my body and from being human even, quite a lot.

All of those aspect has made it more difficult for me to know which of my dysphoria is even related to gender/sex and can best be treated with medical transition. But basically there's only one way to find out: rule out everything else before pursuing medical transition, by which I mean get therapy and try to see if you can connect to your bio sex that way first. And if so, then you probably shouldn't get surgery or hrt, cause there's a risk of getting "reverse dysphoria" then. Like what happened to me.

Before and after
How it was for me is I used to think I was a trans man and was dysphoric about pretty much everything female about my body. I wanted to look completely male, have a flat chest, no curves, have a penis, facial hair, body hair, deep voice, etc.

How it turned out after having been healing and getting therapy on my many issues (only one of which was ASD related, but still) for about 2 years and still ongoing: I'm not a trans man but see myself as androgynous and somewhere along the lines of nonbinary, but also fine with seeing myself as a woman. I'm not dysphoric about having a vagina, curvy body or being female in general, but I would be dysphoric if my voice was high again, if I didn't have facial hair and lots of body hair, etc. I no longer want to look completely male but also don't wanna look completely female. In practice (as I'm post-T) I'm only dysphoric about my chest being flat.

Conclusion
So, because I didn't get therapy before transitioning, I ended up getting top surgery and regretting it. If I had healed my underlying issues first, I could have just gone on T and come out happy, not dysphoric and without regrets from my transition. So yeah, I'd advice you to look into your ASD first, preferably talking to a therapist who specialises in that area about your gender, dysphoria and transition goals; cause it's good to rule out everything else before embarking on a basically irreversible medical transition. Cause chances are you're still trans, but could be in a different way from what you think now, or it may not be. However, I'm just a cautionary tale, not a manual or an expert.

[Maid Marion]

While I'm  AMAB,  I'm also a short petite hourglass with really good proportions, so I've never been able to present as a guy without male failing.  Over the years I've learned female mannerisms and speaking.  Now that I've grown my hair out and wear feminine clothing my social interactions that use to be awkward are quite natural these days.  And people are quite friendly and helpful.  But, where I live has been LGTQ friendly for decades, so there is that.

[Vethrvolnir]

Hi . I'm AFAB. And was self diagnosed with Aspergers and then diagnosed formally ( confirmed by another specialist  so all 3 of us agree I have Aspergers... however...) .
This self diagnosis took me 42 years. I saw psychologists for spinoff issues related to the autism. However the fact that I'm not all that female never registered with anyone either.
I loved to roleplay men. As a child and as an adult. I tried to pass as male once as a child and got rebuked.
All that got swept under the carpet due to my other issues. Social issues. Stress issues.
Now this spring, now my live is calm and happy and I know myself, I start to notice little things. And now I feel that maybe I am mostly male most of the time. Maybe I am not all that autistic but simply mostly male? Maybe I failed at friendships because I had to do female friendship which I suck at. I have a great  friendship with my partner. Now I wonder about what to change about my body.
I know I feel I should have a functioning penis. Which is not there but which is there in my mind. And I do not like often having breasts. And I do not  like being aware of their shape in my clothes. But I do like the way they feel in my hands very cuddly and soft. I worry I may miss them. My partner likes them. So there is that.
I would like to be more manly. But not nescessarily lose my breasts. They are small anyway. I would love  a deeper voice and stronger muscles and more chest and stomach hair. But what about facing agression because of looking like a man with boobs. What about going swimming. And I'm short. So even though I'm pretty fierce I would be easy to beat up. No one would fear me hitting them back.
Anyway I'm definitely not a woman that is one thing i'm sure about. I'm a sort of boyish human.