Sexual orientation?

[Michelle_P]

Look, I personally am gay.  I am attracted to femme persons, not masculine.

My not being sexually attracted to the masculine is not misandrist or homophobic!  I am simply not attracted to persons with masculine presentation.  That is how I am wired.

Now, I do experience fear when solely in the company of men that I do not know well.  This is not an unreasoning fear, but a pretty direct result of being gang raped. 

Please do not try to convince me that I really should or must have sex with men.  I do not respond well to that.  (And yes, I have been tossed from a trans women's group because of this.)

I would much rather not be told I am wrong to not find masculinity attractive.  Please don't tell me I should be willing to have sex with persons with a masculine presentation.  If that is now some requirement to be here, or to somehow validate my femininity, my being femme or a woman, or being transgender, I would just as soon not be here.

[Linde]

@  Michelle
You voiced your feelings a little more diplomatic than I did, but nevertheless, your feelings are pretty much the same as mine!

[LauraE]

@  Michelle
You voiced your feelings a little more diplomatic than I did, but nevertheless, your feelings are pretty much the same as mine!

I concur. Women only for me. My ex-girlfriend is still convinced that HRT will cause me to be attracted to men, but the idea is fairly revolting.

Laura

[transspoonie]

Speaking for myself, and only myself, I think there's a big difference between "If I imagine myself having sex with men, it makes me feel unpleasant and disgusted on a solely personal level, because I'm not attracted to men at all and I would be forcing myself to have sex with people I don't want to" and "I think having sex with men is bad."

Without being as verbose as I have (for example's sake), I think the former can easily be mistaken for the latter. I haven't read any of the posts in this thread as the latter, at least not off the top of my head, and I don't believe that's been anyone's intent. I've seen some good-natured teasing, and some to-the-point questions, but nothing that appears intentionally homophobic or malicious.

At the same time, as I said above, I believe the former example can easily be mistaken for the latter example. I also see how the former example, mistaken for the latter example, may be alarming, unsettling, or disappointing. Do you say something, bringing attention to how you perceived the other person's words, or not?

I think it says something to the maturity, responsibility, and understanding of Susan's Place that we can discuss these things, even if we don't always choose the most "diplomatic" words.

Also, if I've misspoken or offended anyone, please tell me; it is late, I am tired, and today has been simultaneously very good and very stressful.

[Michelle_P]

I will note that when I said I was attracted to femme persons, I meant exactly that.  When I am attracted to a person I do not know what they might have in their briefs. 

I have experienced attraction to women, both cis and trans, as well as a trans man, with beard and hairy legs, but still with some feminine attributes.   I am definitely not attracted to masculine presentations regardless of gender identity or assigned sex at birth.

I will also note that I am demisexual, and will not have a sustained sexual attraction to anyone without an emotional or romantic connection. My girlfriend is one of the few people who has been willing to make such a connection with me.

It took me a long time, and some fairly brutal self-examination, to recognize my actual orientation as well as fears and dislikes.

[Ryuichi13]

*snip*

How many straight men can acknowledge another man being cute, hot, sexy or attractive?  It seems more women are able to acknowledge those adjectives about each other and suggests to me that we as a culture are way too busy censoring our public utterances. 

Part of this is the dominant cultural concepts of sexuality as dirty, sinful, wrong, pervy or scary.  Sex negative cultures deny themselves and others some of the most wonderful pleasures and connections people can make.  Yes sir, lets have fun!

I can honestly say that there are women that I find attractive.  However, I would not and more importantly could not see myself having sex with them. 

I find it extremely sad that sex is thought of using such negative terms such as "dirty, sinful, wrong, pervy or scary."  Its a damned shame that something that can be so incredibly wonderful and if done with the right person/people magical is thought of in such a  negative way by so much of Society.  It is only by those that continue to perpetuate those kind of thoughts towards sex that by extension, transgender people, gays, lesbians, bi people and the like are thought of so badly.

Maybe if we make an effort to teach the next generation about SSC (Safe, Sane Consensual) sex as well as "your sexual orientation/attraction/non-attraction is okay", we can help alleviate such negativity towards marginalized people such as ourselves.     

One can only hope.

Ryuichi

[skipulus]

I will note that when I said I was attracted to femme persons, I meant exactly that.  When I am attracted to a person I do not know what they might have in their briefs. 

I have experienced attraction to women, both cis and trans, as well as a trans man, with beard and hairy legs, but still with some feminine attributes.   I am definitely not attracted to masculine presentations regardless of gender identity or assigned sex at birth.

I will also note that I am demisexual, and will not have a sustained sexual attraction to anyone without an emotional or romantic connection. My girlfriend is one of the few people who has been willing to make such a connection with me.

It took me a long time, and some fairly brutal self-examination, to recognize my actual orientation as well as fears and dislikes.

I share so much of this except towards masculinity, not femininity. I find the thought of having sexual interaction with women revolting for me. I have often considered it but am turned of by the very thought of it.
With men or masculinity I enjoy the smell and touch of their firm body so much. I therefore can very well have sex without romance or emotional connection. Just being close turns me on and I'm also very strongly turned on by visual stimuli. This just does not happen with women.
I also don't care what is in the briefs as long as the individual wearing the briefs is a masculine man.
I have most of my life had strong libido and helped myself a lot, used porn, and therefore experimented. I recon I would have realised by now if I were attracted to women.

I totally get that many men and women are attracted to women and femininity and I find that perfectly fine.
I also felt that those comments by Tessa were aimed at my type of responses. I don't need to post here or use this side. I can go somewhere else if being me and stating my preferences is taken as offensive to others. It's not the first time I have experienced that.

[Linde]

I totally get that many men and women are attracted to women and femininity and I find that perfectly fine.
I also felt that those comments by Tessa were aimed at my type of responses. I don't need to post here or use this side. I can go somewhere else if being me and stating my preferences is taken as offensive to others. It's not the first time I have experienced that.

You have basically the opposite sexual orientation than I have, and there is nothing wrong with (you can have all my guy friends, if I can have all your lady friends    ).

I think you and I have the same right to talk about our sexul preferences as ohers have talking about theirs!  There is no reason for either you or I to leave this site, just because some other contributors feel the have the right to police our sexual preferences!

[Tessa James]

I totally get that many men and women are attracted to women and femininity and I find that perfectly fine.
I also felt that those comments by Tessa were aimed at my type of responses. I don't need to post here or use this side. I can go somewhere else if being me and stating my preferences is taken as offensive to others. It's not the first time I have experienced that.

I certainly hope people are not offended by discussions regarding sexual orientation here?  I am happy to be part of the commentary and enjoy the deeply interesting responses.  I hope everyone sticks around and adds their 2 cents.  This forum can assist in better understanding and being open to shared perspectives that illuminate a greater world than any one of us can completely know or experience.  I am not offended by much of anything here but please do know that some of us will continually be challenging the dominate paradigms of culture.   Perhaps foreign or unfamiliar ideas like gay pride may be annoying to some folks.  I understand that happens a lot but would rather this is de-escalated.  I'm hardly a mod or the police.

I celebrate diversity as reality, equity the goal with love and inclusion the best ways forward.  We are better together. 

[Cindy]

 

I will remind people that if they get upset by comments to report them to the Moderators.

I shall also suggest that we always remember that equality, acceptance and tolerance are three different conditions.

On this site and Forum equality is key.

[Ryuichi13]

*snip*

I celebrate diversity as reality, equity the goal with love and inclusion the best ways forward.  We are better together. 

Why am I reminded of that fortune cookie joke when you end your fortune reading with "in bed" when I read that last part? 

Ryuichi

[Violets]

I'm romantically attracted to women, but sexually attracted to men, though I do wonder at times whether my conditioning as a male has suppressed the romantic part with men. I think if I was born cis female, I'd likely be happily married to a man and have no interest in women at all. My psych thinks my sexuality is heterosexual female.

[Chloe]

I was never comfortable with the dominant role. It felt unnatural and was one of the things I hated about sex. It felt like a chore.

touche' @Beverly Ann & @Violets! Couldn't 'ave said it better. As one with a more conservative background and classical education, I've skipped through this thread by following the various "quotes & comments" and am only reminded how lonely, as a definite minority here, the more "traditional" orientation road can be!

I'm romantically attracted to women, but sexually attracted to men

Having struggled through an extra-credit Fordham U poly-sci course on constitutional liberty I truly fail to see what an emphasis on both "equality" and "diversity" have in common with each other? As trans, unlike when one refers to the term "gay", we are obviously a very diverse, each almost unique, so-called group of individuals. Are we really "an equal group" at all? Thus the conundrum! "I've always had an identity attachment toward certain (not all) women which, in running contrary to "her" expectations of "him", totally rendered me incapable having "any sex" at all". Now, I simply don't get that with "men" (or lol "ex wife" for that matter but that's a different story for the confused therapists!)

Thus an "asexual"? Or is it 'ole fashioned SPINSTERHOOD merely raising it's ugly hegemony(sp?) again?  All of this only reminds me of a fav French comedy by Jean-Baptiste Moliere:

"Betrayed and wronged in everything, I'll flee this bitter world thread
where vice is king, And seek some spot unpeopled and apart
Where I'll be free to have an honest heart."

           Gee, lotsa girls but not many "cis guys" around here at all! Don't get me wrong I love and am amused by the "diversity" at Susan's forum and, as we each individually try to desperately validate our own life choices, it's inevitable we'll run into conflicting attitudes yet, in turn naturally wanting to push our own agendas, yes we can "get along" regardless! But, what's perhaps not as obvious, is equality of "support" by no means implies "agreement" ( and the only thing this place truly lacks, due to thin-skin at the expense of one another, is HUMOR and the ability to laugh at ourselves! )

[pretty pauline]

I think if I was born cis female, I'd likely be happily married to a man and have no interest in women at all. My psych thinks my sexuality is heterosexual female.

I can so relate to that, in another life before transition I dated women and had a girlfriend, then transition and getting flattering attention from men, then I went on a date with a man, I was overwhelmed with the attention, I just went with the flow. then going to a movie with my first boyfriend, holding hands and putting his arm around me, it felt so weird, the heterosexual female finally coming out, being with a guy when I was a guy just didn't feel right, but as a woman it feels right and the guy is attracted to my femininity, I'm now happily married to a man for the past nine years, I never ever thought things would turn out as they did, being married but marrying a man, we're now just a normal husband & wife, waking up in a the middle of the night and this hunk of a guy snoring his head of next to me, this was never the plan lol orientation can be complicated but being happy with our situation, I'm happy now being the woman I am.

[Chloe]

I never ever thought  . . . we're now just a normal husband & wife . . . this hunk of a guy . . . was never the plan . . .happy now being the woman I am.

    lol It's hardly EVER "the plan", pre-concieved habits & notions be DAMNED the best teacher is always Experience and there's nothing quite like defenses down, being truly vulnerable and just "i]letting it all go[/i]" for once !

[KimOct]

Holy Moly !!  I stopped following this topic after I posted on page 2.  Look at what I missed out on.

In my mind human sexuality maybe one of or THE most complex thing in the human experience.  There are so many variations on it.  No one and I mean No one - should be criticized for their preferences so long as it is between two consenting adults.

That said - I think the overlap of sexuality and gender makes the topic so much more complicated.  In my mind gender orientation and sexual orientation is like a Ven diagram ( you know 3rd grade math where the two circles partially overlap each other)

Gender does not = sexual orientation but it does have a relation to it.   For me if I had a much more feminine body I think I would be more attracted to men.  Not because I am homophobic but because I feel like I would be having sex in the wrong body.  This is messed up $#!+ but it is how I feel.  My physical dysphoria has definitely affected my sexuality.

Before transitioning when I would have sex with women I would fantasize that I was a woman having sex with a man.  And yet I find women more attractive than men.  Whaaatt !!??   It doesn't make sense to me either.   I think that part of the reason I found/find women attractive is that I want to resemble them and be them.  It partially goes back to the whole >-bleeped-< theory which I disagree with for the most part but as with most B.S. theories there is probably a grain of truth there.

OK - this is turning into a ramble.  In closing - you are attracted to who you are attracted to and don't give anyone else a hard time for what they like.  Pretty simple right?

[Linde]

   For me if I had a much more feminine body I think I would be more attracted to men.  Not because I am homophobic but because I feel like I would be having sex in the wrong body.  This is messed up $#!+ but it is how I feel.  My physical dysphoria has definitely affected my sexuality.

Pretty simple right?

Pretty simple, correct!  This is what my therapist is going on with me, too.  She feels it is the underlying fear of being gay, which causes me to dislike men! She feels, the sooner I would have SRS, the better it would be for me and my sexual orientation.  i don't know?

[Kirsteneklund7]

Pretty simple, correct!  This is what my therapist is going on with me, too.  She feels it is the underlying fear of being gay, which causes me to dislike men! She feels, the sooner I would have SRS, the better it would be for me and my sexual orientation.  i don't know?

Does that mean full vaginoplasty is the best option?

Kind regards, Kirsten.

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[TonyaW]

Pretty simple, correct!  This is what my therapist is going on with me, too.  She feels it is the underlying fear of being gay, which causes me to dislike men! She feels, the sooner I would have SRS, the better it would be for me and my sexual orientation.  i don't know?

If there's not something that she's picked up on from you to make her believe that, its total nonsense.  Maybe your attraction will change after GCS, but a blanket statement like that is just wrong.


Is your therapist  not aware of lesbians?  Supposed to be 10% of the population, why would trans people be different.  It seems like she's saying the only reason you want a vagina is to have sex with men.  I want GCS to alleviate the dysphoria I have about a now useless portion of my anatomy and to make myself feel whole.  Plenty of lesbians, cis and trans, perfectly happy to not have a penis anywhere near their vagina.



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[Linde]

Does that mean full vaginoplasty is the best option?

Kind regards, Kirsten.

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I am not sure, I have to consider my age.  And as Dorit, who is just a few years younger, said, a vulva with minimum depth vagina is just fine in her opinion.

I  think I have to see how it goes, and what a potential surgeon would think would be best for me!

It is still extremely hard for me to imagine that I ever would want to climb into a bed with a guy!  I have to retune my brain to be able to do that!