Susan's Place Logo

News:

According to Google Analytics 25,259,719 users made visits accounting for 140,758,117 Pageviews since December 2006

Main Menu

Injectable hormones?

Started by Berliegh, January 06, 2008, 08:08:52 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

natalie

what are the
"modern treatment protocols"

in looking for a Endo, is there a good clue to this.

thanks,

-Natalie
  •  

Keira


Berleigh, you didn't read what I put there.

First of all, its impossible for estradiol valerate to nearly kill you
in the way you describe, though an alergy to the dye and binder (which I told you about)
can certainly cause headaches and nausea. Its done so to others.

See the diff, its like the glass is making you sick, but not the content of the glass.

If you insist on continuing with ethinilestradiol don't be surprised if your dose is low
(which is the only semi safe way to use it) that you have little devellopment. At
higher doses which would help in devellopment your risk of DVT and liver damage
increase the longer you use it and the older you get no matter what the dose is.
Don't say you haven't been warned.

I told you that the valeric acid has just about no biological activity in the blood, how can it make you sick then!! It can't. It has to be the dye or binder or the progynova pill.

As for effectiveness, you always say your ethinilestradiol dose is ineffective though you tolerate it; which is a contradiction to what you just said.

There is no options for injection. Injecting estradiol directly, which nobody does, will give you wild spikes and make you sick from nausea for a few days. Injecting with cypionate will be just about the same as valerate acid, except the cypionate part is harder to metabolise (which means it has a stronger biological activity and higher chance of intolerance than the valeric acid associated to estradiol).

The only way to get estradiol directly in the blood is through patches, which are fine if you're over 60 or have a medical condition, but do not allow high serum levels of estrogen except if you pile on the patches. They are extremely safe though.

Using pills sublingually won't help if your alergic to the dyes. As I said, the 1mg pill uses a different dye so that would be a way to try to see if its better. You don't need to eat 50 pills to find out, just one, or even part of one, can tell you if your allergic to this particular dye.

  •  

Berliegh

Quote from: Keira on January 06, 2008, 10:44:01 PM

Berleigh, you didn't read what I put there.

First of all, its impossible for estradiol valerate to nearly kill you
in the way you describe, though an alergy to the dye and binder (which I told you about)
can certainly cause headaches and nausea. Its done so to others.

See the diff, its like the glass is making you sick, but not the content of the glass.

If you insist on continuing with ethinilestradiol don't be surprised if your dose is low
(which is the only semi safe way to use it) that you have little devellopment. At
higher doses which would help in devellopment your risk of DVT and liver damage
increase the longer you use it and the older you get no matter what the dose is.
Don't say you haven't been warned.

I told you that the valeric acid has just about no biological activity in the blood, how can it make you sick then!! It can't. It has to be the dye or binder or the progynova pill.

As for effectiveness, you always say your ethinilestradiol dose is ineffective though you tolerate it; which is a contradiction to what you just said.

There is no options for injection. Injecting estradiol directly, which nobody does, will give you wild spikes and make you sick from nausea for a few days. Injecting with cypionate will be just about the same as valerate acid, except the cypionate part is harder to metabolise (which means it has a stronger biological activity and higher chance of intolerance than the valeric acid associated to estradiol).

The only way to get estradiol directly in the blood is through patches, which are fine if you're over 60 or have a medical condition, but do not allow high serum levels of estrogen except if you pile on the patches. They are extremely safe though.

Using pills sublingually won't help if your alergic to the dyes. As I said, the 1mg pill uses a different dye so that would be a way to try to see if its better. You don't need to eat 50 pills to find out, just one, or even part of one, can tell you if your allergic to this particular dye.



I don't believe there is only one injectable HRT? I do complain about my fat distribution but I have noticed other Transsexuals I've met have much worse fat distribution and some are on estradiol valerate? so I think there is more going on than what drug you are using..

My estrogen levels are usually quite high when I've had a blood test.
  •  

kalt

I wish this thread had a poll containing who's gotten the best results of either oral/sublingual, patches, or injectables.  This is stuff that varies between individuals, but I think is somewhat important for anyone who's interested in starting this kind of thing.
  •  

Berliegh

Quote from: kalt on January 07, 2008, 07:42:37 AM
I wish this thread had a poll containing who's gotten the best results of either oral/sublingual, patches, or injectables.  This is stuff that varies between individuals, but I think is somewhat important for anyone who's interested in starting this kind of thing.

I agree
  •  

Suzy

Quote from: kalt on January 07, 2008, 07:42:37 AM
I wish this thread had a poll containing who's gotten the best results of either oral/sublingual, patches, or injectables.  This is stuff that varies between individuals, but I think is somewhat important for anyone who's interested in starting this kind of thing.

Yes, Kalt I agree.  Why don't you make such a poll?  But do be advised that we have to be careful that we do not appear do be endorsing self-medicating.  Nonetheless, it would be very interesting to know that information, especially since medical practices seem to vary around the world, and from doctor to doctor.

Kristi
  •  

Berliegh

Quote from: Kristi on January 07, 2008, 08:38:05 AM
Quote from: kalt on January 07, 2008, 07:42:37 AM
I wish this thread had a poll containing who's gotten the best results of either oral/sublingual, patches, or injectables.  This is stuff that varies between individuals, but I think is somewhat important for anyone who's interested in starting this kind of thing.

Yes, Kalt I agree.  Why don't you make such a poll?  But do be advised that we have to be careful that we do not appear do be endorsing self-medicating.  Nonetheless, it would be very interesting to know that information, especially since medical practices seem to vary around the world, and from doctor to doctor.

Kristi

In the U.K it's very hard to find anyone with any specialist endocrine experience and knowledge with transsexuals. There are endocrinologists but they are very limited.
  •  

Keira


BTW, Its impossible to test your estrogen levels with estrogen tests
the labs use if your using ethinilestradiol,
since it doesn't show in the blood as estradiol.

So, I'm not sure what level your talking about if your indeed taking this.
That's another of the multiple reasons why ethinilestradiol is no longer used.
So, basically, if your taking EE, you can't know your true E serum levels and
so only results can help in dosage which for normal estrogen is not
a problem, but for EE it is a big problem since higher dosages cause
big health problems. Even if you knew your EE serum levels, it would be
pointless since you don't really know the metabolic activity of this E.

You can only know your T level, which indeed may be low. But, a low
T level and low level of E bio activity (which would be the case if
taking a safe low EE dose) means you would be quasi menauposal
(which would explain the belly fats).

Also, how can people much worse than you if by your own description, you've had no
change in the face, lower body or almost none in your upper body.
Basically, you've had no change and
your saying people on injections are worse? How can you be worse than no change!
If they had little fat and they still have little fat, well they're not worse than you,
they're the same.

There is only two type of injection: EV or EC, valeric or cypionate.

There are also pellets used in the states and possibly available elsewhere (though a doctor has to put them in), but they are quite expensive but convenient in that they put estradiol directly in the bloodstream and they last a long time.

Berleigh, estrogen in natural form is estrogen in natural form, if someone doesn't react to it its dosage or genetics. Valeric acid is merily there to stabilise E in the body (and outside the body). The mode of administration of estradiol is irrelevant if taking an equivalent dosage between modes. So, its possible to get the same devellopment with pills, injections, gels, patches and pellets if taking an equivalent doses. Some of these make it hard to get higher dosages, like patches and gels, but that doesn't change the fact that if you wanted to put 3 patches on, you'd get the same high dosage as someone who injects at top level of safe range.

Also, there are estrofem pill with no valeric acid (but still the possibility of sensibility to dyes and binder) which if used sublingually put estradiol directly in the bloodstream.


Polls on this would be useless unless you put dosages, length of use, etc. Which would contrevene the forum's rule. All bio estrogen's give the same result for one individual no matter how they are administered if you get the same serum level of it.

The main differences between types is the variability of serum levels (which could impact slightly growth speed because receptors can be desensitized to constant high levels (in lower levels, its less a factor)). The desensitization is temporary and quickly reverts to normal once the levels fall. That's another reason why there is a decreasing return on money when you boost dosages.

In this case, if your average level is high, it would be better to not take pills at regular intervals, but take more during the morning, slightly less at noon and more in the evening.  Serum levels from injections vary themselves, though not as much as pills or gels can make it vary.

Patches have constant levels, not ideal, but they're usually taken in lower doses which means its less of a factor.
  •  

Berliegh

Quote from: Keira on January 07, 2008, 10:07:50 AM



Also, how can people much worse than you if by your own description, you've had no
change in the face, lower body or almost none in your upper body. Basically, you've had no change and your saying people on injections are worse? How can you be worse than no change!
If they had little fat and they still have little fat, well they're not worse than you,
they're the same.


I never said that. I said some transsexuals who I have met had far worse fat distribution than I have but none of them were on injectable HRT. As I said several times before injectable HRT is not condoned in the U.K so they would not be able to access it. Estradiol valerate is only prescribed in tablet form in the U.K (this I also said before!)

Please read posts more carefully...
  •  

Keira


Again, worse than none (from your own description)!

Also, you haven't adressed the fact you said you were tested for E
while using ethinilestradiol, which labs don't do and even if they
did do, would give a number that's impossible to compare to
any natal number (basically useless).
  •  

Berliegh

Quote from: Keira on January 07, 2008, 10:24:20 AM

Again, worse than none (from your own description)!

Also, you haven't adressed the fact you said you were tested for E
while using ethinilestradiol, which labs don't do and even if they
did do, would give a number that's impossible to compare to
any natal number (basically useless).


I do know about ethinyestrodial not showing up very well on blood tests. But I have been on other HRT formulars during the last 7 years.... including progynova and premarin.

I'm going to quit this topic because you seem to want to nit pick all the time...
  •  

kalt

Note to all: I did make the poll, it's in the HRT section.  Get to it, lol.
  •  

Keira


Saying your levels where high in the past says nothing of your
current levels (which you said are HIGH, how do you know if by your own
admission you can't measure them. Maybe they are low, how do you know).

How is it a nit to pick. I point inconsistencies and that's all.
I want to stop bad information.
I don't care who creates it; just don't want to let it stand.
I reply to what you say, nothing more.
  •  

Berliegh

Quote from: Keira on January 07, 2008, 07:24:49 PM

Saying your levels where high in the past says nothing of your
current levels (which you said are HIGH, how do you know if by your own
admission you can't measure them. Maybe they are low, how do you know).

How is it a nit to pick. I point inconsistencies and that's all.
I want to stop bad information.
I don't care who creates it; just don't want to let it stand.
I reply to what you say, nothing more.

My recent Oestrogen levels have been very high recently which can be clarified by the very high prolactin levels I have been recieving.

This topic was initially to find out about injectable HRT and for any injectable alternatives to estradiol valerate. I am seeing my GP soon and I need more information to clarify a request.
  •