The way you were raised and how this contributes

[ShannonH]

Hey everyone!

So alot has happened over the last few days, I have told my partner everything including my plan to start hrt next week (picking up prescription). Obviously she was quite upset but also she is extremely supportive and sometimes excited at times which I think is due to her know the whole time why I have suffered depressions and anxiety most of our relationship, she truly is the strongest and kindest women I know and I am very aware how lucky I am to have someone who understands.

The problem I am having is droughts,  my droughts are mainly about how I was raised and how this has effect my journey and transition, just subtle things growing up that are making it quite hard to trueley start accepting who I am. Some examples such as loosing power, let's be honest men earn more money are physically stronger( which is good in defensive situations) and find it much easier than a transgender women to find work.
Loosing my brother and cousin as My best friends, I have been on some fun and crazy adventures with these two and I honestly think that will no longer happen if I fully accept this and transition.

It is amazing how being raised can truly make you blind to what is really in front of you. Like I grew up in a small town where calling a guy a girl or gay was directed as an insult if you didn't seem man enough for doing something stupid or not giving in to peer pressure.

I was raised in such a judgemental uneducated way that I can not just push these untrue thoughts and beliefs out of the way and just focus on what is true and real.

Sorry if I am not getting this across very well.

I would love to hear Everyone's thoughts on how you were raised, how this effected your transition and how you pushed past these hateful beliefs.

Thanks xo

[pamelatransuk]

Hello again Shannon

I was born in 1955.

Not only was homosexuality frowned upon and hated by many (whether religious or not), it was illegal to practice homosexuality till 1967 here in UK. "Gay" became the term used after 1971. The societal anti-reaction was in the majority certainly till the 1980s. Thankfully since the millennium it is now only a minority that are opposed to gay people.

I knew as a child that I was transgender without knowing the term. I always wished to have been born a girl and told my grandmother aged 4 in 1959. I first came across the term ->-bleeped-<- when I was 12 and I incorrectly assumed I was such. Quite a few of my associates/family thought incorrectly ->-bleeped-<-s were gay - obviously wrong as most are not. I first encountered the term transsexual in 1972 and realized that described me. Again quite a few of my associates/family thought incorrectly transsexuals were gay before transition - obviously wrong as most are not. Hence those opposed to gay people were generally also opposed to ->-bleeped-<-s and transsexuals. Since around 2000 we have used the term transgender as an umbrella term to include these two categories and several other categories.

So now as a transgender woman (as a man I had a minor attraction to women but mainly asexual and I still feel the same), I feel that although the ant-ireaction to gay people has thankfully diminished, it is still somewhat prevalent towards trans people. Essentially we are in the same position gay encountered 30 years ago and therefore society
needs to catch up which it will.

Younger people today are much more accepting of us today and more education and campaigning will help. Things are changing and we will ultimately gain more understanding and support.

But the answer to your question in terms of earlier times is simply:

1. Society (religious or not) was opposed to gay people up to 1989 and then gradual change.

2. Society (religious or not) were ignorant of trans matters and made false assumptions and were opposed to trans people as a result and then gradual change but it started later.

We must not permit our upbringing to effect our life now both because the upbringing was wrong and because society as a whole moves on in the course of time anyway.

Hugs

Pamela

[randim]

Your childhood is terribly important to how you turn out as an adult.  The child is father of the man (or mother/woman as the case may be).  In my case, I was born in 1953 in a small, rural town in the Appalachians (est. pop. around 1000).  My father was a dairy farmer at the time who later became a truck driver.  My mother was stay-at-home.  The town and my family was very conservative.  I was raised in the Southern Baptist church.  Let's just say this environment was not particularly queer-friendly.  The views of the genders I was exposed to were *very* binary.  Lots and lots of subtle misogyny and stereotyping.  Being trans was something that was just inconceivable to me as a child, even when I would sneakily wear my mother's underwear under my clothes around the house.  Cognitive dissonance going on in a big way. At that time and place, I didn't even conceive of trans as anything but a subset of gay.  I do think the extremely binary gender roles undermined by ability to conceive of non-binary or gender non-conforming roles/behaviors. Not John Wayne?  You must be Doris Day.  And my view of Doris was not particularly egalitarian and largely unrealistic.  This probably had a lot of influence on the way I cross-dressed when the great Goddess Trans could not be suppressed, and a big part of the reason I so resolutely purged later on down the road. I had such a warped view of masculinity I was reluctant to use chapstick.  Even today being trans means to be marginalized to some extent, but in the late 50s and early 60s?  At best considered a severe mental illness, at worst something akin to child molesting.  A great foundation for self-loathing and going way deep into the closet.  And it's a gift that keeps on giving.  I struggle with self-acceptance and self-esteem even today.  Not all because of being trans, of course, but it's a big ingredient in the stew.

[AnneK]

While I was certainly aware of the gay insult, though the term used then was "->-bleeped-<-", I don't recall any such bigotry at home or church.  My family went to the Anglican church.  It didn't seem to ever come up.  However, I do recall my mother referring to someone as a Jew, though I couldn't see anything different about them.  In the Toronto of my parents day, there was discrimination against Jews and Italians.  Of course, back then, I had never heard of transexuals.

[Ann W]

I, also, was born in the 1950s. I was raised in a home that was divided along gender lines. My sister went to church with my mother, I went to church with my father. My parents fought throughout my childhood. My mother was psychologically abusive toward both me and my sister, but I seemed to get the brunt of it. I was a sad kid, and grew up to become a sad adult. When I was a young adolescent, in one of her saner moments, my mother once commented to me, "You were always such a happy child"; she seemed mystified at the change in me.

I had no clue. Of course, there was so much that was screwed up in my life as a kid that knowing I was trans might have pushed me over the edge. I would have had no way to even frame it. Just being gay would have been a disaster, and too horrible to contemplate; if I had known I was trans, I would have myself believed I was crazy, deserved to die and was going to hell. All things considered, despite the fact that gender dysphoria ended up taking many opportunities away from me, it was probably a mercy I didn't know.

I have no memories, but I'm convinced there were signs. My mother and I have not spoken in more than 25 years; but I sent her a letter and came out to her, after I figured it out, and asked her if there had been. She hasn't replied. She did tell me a story, once, that is kind of cute. She told me that, when I was quite young, she once found me sitting in the tub, a razor in my hand, blood streaming down my leg; I looked up at her and smiled proudly, "Look at me, I'm shaving!" I think it's interesting I would mimic her, and not my father. If there were indeed signs, my father would have considered it his duty to stamp out my deviance, and he would have done his best to do so, motivated, I can say this with certainty, only by love and sorrow. I suspect he did something that resulted in the suppression of who I was to a place deep in my unconscious.

Nevertheless, it did leak out. People have wondered, off and on, throughout my life if I was gay; that seems to be a common experience for us. I have always preferred feminine modes of relating to others, never "got" guys, preferred the company of gals. This is funny in retrospect ...

I was a decidedly non-confrontational person as a teenager, intimidated by regular guys, etc. That anything like this occurred at all was amazing. One day, I was in the locker room before phys ed class when a male classmate said something violently offensive to me. I don't remember what it was, but I remember how powerfully it offended me. I stayed behind when the rest of the class went out to the bleachers, fuming, feeling I had to do something about what he had done but not knowing what. Finally, I left the locker room and went out to where the class was sitting, in the bleachers, listening to the instructor. In front of everyone, without saying anything, I walked up to this kid, drew back and slapped his face. I naturally chose a female mode of response to an extreme situation. It makes me laugh, thinking about it, now.

I am so very happy to know who I am today. Life has changed for me; I know joy, I love myself, finally. I'm me. I still weep for what was lost. That poor kid. Why couldn't she know; her heart could have been singing her whole life. But I accept that things probably happened as they did for the best.

[Chloe]

. . without saying anything, I walked up to this kid, drew back and slapped his face.

    @Ann had a similar locker room bullying experience in Jr High but, to my utter amazement, it was an older, unknown 'Guy Hero' who stepped-in, intervened on my behalf and that was that . . . never was bothered again (and never did know his name!)

           Of course there's more to the story but suspect it had alot to do with me being new in the school, having just been taken out of a private Catholic one, and wanting to grow my hair long . . . something one didn't do in mid New Jersey circa 1968?

[Kylo]

I was raised by intellectual parents and gender roles were not foisted on me... and I was still clueless about the true cause/depth of my trans issues for 30 years. I was raised to question everything, and to be logical about things, but from a young age I realized that there are two sides to the brain, emotional and logical, and it's logical to make sure the requirements of the emotional side are met because that isn't going away. Despite an upbringing where I was relatively free, and encouraged to make the most of myself, it didn't help me in terms of identifying or recognizing the problem. I am beginning to think that's partially the result of poor socialization in the early brain-forming years, partially an existential component of the nature of who/what I am, that I don't 'see myself' as easily as others do, nor do I seem to look to others much. If you have to socialize dogs before they grow up so they will be truly comfortable around other people, it might follow the same in people, and I missed that window.

Upbringing probably helped when it came to deciding to transition - my family are quite self-centered and don't have much interest in their kids' lives, so as I grew up I decided that my life definitely belongs to me and I will do what I want with it. I have ended up self-centered as well, although unlike the rest of them I limit my involvement in other people's lives so I can do what I want and not adversely affect other people. That's why the decision to transition was an easy one.

My internal voice has always been much more powerful to me than the voices of other people, was mostly keeping my own company until the age of 7. I dealt with knowing neither my mother or father had that much interest in having me as a kid, I was the one they weren't ready for, then dealt with my mother's emotional two-facedness because of her drinking problem, and her general "non sugar coated" attitude. She didn't spare my feelings on anything and she routinely did destroy them for her own emotional satisfaction. But in the end, all that did was create someone impervious and even better at that game than her. I still have to watch my impulse to tear people down because of that if they make any aggressive moves at me. School was practically a non-experience. Completely boring as I learned more at home, and the other kids wouldn't talk to me much. I guess to sum it all up I felt pretty unimportant in just about every situation and to everyone else, so I became fairly important to myself. 

Honestly I've not personally experienced much in the way of abject hate, more like being abjectly ignored for a variety of reasons, so my general way of negotiating the hate as a trans individual is either to ignore it, steep myself in it till it does not register at all (this works btw, desensitization), and generally not giving it the time of day. The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference, and that's generally what the real haters get from me. I'm not 'harmless' though. A few people have found this out in my time the hard way. If I get abuse it's usually (oddly) for no reason that I can tell. Just someone having a go because they feel like it, not because of some ideology.

So upbringing has made me standoffish, uninvolved, and someone who minds their own business IRL when it comes to this stuff. I keep my stuff out of other people's faces and they usually stay out of mine. I don't volunteer information to people as that equates to giving them ammo when you've been raised by someone like my mother. I keep an eye on potential on threats and I keep track of what people say and do without much effort. I have discovered in myself (genetic possibly, upbringing probably) that some part of me enjoys altercations and having an enemy to rip to pieces, and the other part of me would rather not, so I try to keep that "beast" in its cage. I have no doubt this is in no small part due to the things my mother would do to us, the frustration of not being able to act to change it, and the unresolved childhood incidents that never played themselves out as they should. The anger in there is phenomenal. I mean, it's like a junkie wanting a fix when that thing's out of the bag, unstoppable. It was starting to manifest properly just before I got myself on HRT and it's been a lot more manageable since, put to sleep. It makes me think the aspects of the trans condition that I would consider an illness really live up to the term without some kind of treatment, but obviously the reasons for the anger would usually be another person.

I'm not gonna blame it all on my upbringing though. Sometimes things just don't occur to you and you don't listen to yourself enough. I'm probably guilty of that a lot.

[Alice (nym)]

I was born in the 1970s. My father used to be actively involved in far right groups. He used to boast about going gay bashing and has GBH on his criminal record.

On my street there was a boy who used to play with the girls and dress up. Everyday my father would encourage me to fight him, and every time I would find an excuse not to fight.

I realised I was different at the age of 2 but I have no idea if I ever mentioned it to my parents. Throughout my life, masculinity was forced onto me. I went hunting and fishing. Watched war films. Was given lots of soldiers and engineering type toys. My grandmother would repeatedly say that she only liked boys, which upset my sister and she would try as hard as me to be like a boy.

To give you an idea at how bad my father's politics are... I had a train set with Nazi soldiers glued to the tops of the carriages. Every single toy soldier I owned was WWII Nazi German.

But I would cry a lot as a child. I knew I had to keep it hidden. I didn't have a word for it, I just knew I was supposed to have been a girl... and chances are my sister should've been the boy.

When I was 10 years old, we moved to the next village. There was a transwoman who lived there and her life was pure hell. She got abuse every single day of her life until she had to leave. If it were not the adults calling her names and spitting at her, the kids were throwing stones at her and vandalising her property. I was fascinated by her. I didn't think it was possible.

One day when I was about 11 or 12, I was playing with some friends and she walked by. My friends stopped playing and started throwing rotten plums at her and calling her names. I refused to join in, and it wasn't long before they noticed that I wasn't joining in. Then they turned on me and force fed me a rotten plum. From that moment on, my life was pure hell. I was bullied daily, beaten up every day unless I was fast enough to get away and hide somewhere, until the bullies had given up looking for me. That was my life until I was 17.

I never had any feelings towards boys, never expressed I was gay or wanted to be a girl. I was branded a puff because I had refused to throw plums at the local transwoman.

I am not out to my family other than my wife. But when I get into an argument with my father over his disgusting politics, he will get angry and start shouting homophobic abuse at me. My mother probably guesses. I used to dress in her clothes as a teenager (in secret). I don't know how much my father knows. At least he does not hit me anymore. I laid him out when I was in my early 20s and took up martial arts as an attempt at trying to be more manly. He tried to hit me again and I put him on his back again. Never touched me since.

He's old now. The problem is that despite his disgusting politics, his abuse, and his past violence... he is still my father. Despite all his faults, he was generous and showed me kindness too. He is kind to my daughter too. Despite him putting all this toxic masculinity on me... and it took me a while to deprogram all the far right rubbish, it was not an over night thing... it took me a good 2-3 years to get over all the prejudice and hate he had educated me with. Despite all of that, I can't help but love and care for him. I dread coming out to him. He's old now, he isn't going to hurt me anymore, but it will be sad if he rejects me. There is a small glimmer of hope, despite his open racism, he loves my daughter who is mixed race... although she has strawberry blonde hair and fair skin... so takes after me.

The first time I dated a non-white woman, he went ballistic. He went straight for me, and I dived out of the room, shut the door behind me and held onto the handle as if my life depended on it... he literally pulled the door off its hinges to get at me. I dived out the house and walked to a friend's house in a neighbouring village. I broke down in tears to him. Embarrassed, I left and went to another village where I knew there was some shelter for the night, only the waterboard had changed the locks and I couldn't get into the building anymore. So I risked heading home in the early hours, found everyone asleep, and sneaked into my room, blocking the door with my bookcase to prevent anyone getting in during the night. Then waited until he had gone to work before leaving my room. Often in times like this I would go to my grandmother's house and wait until he had calmed down enough and then she would phone to make sure it was ok for me to return, or my mother would phone knowing where I was hiding to tell me the coast was clear.

If things had not exploded inside me last year, I would still be hiding myself. In a way, I still am hiding. Offline, I am only out to my wife, my GP, and my local trans group. Overcoming guilt, shame, and embarrassment is very difficult.

Small steps. I cross town in women's clothing every Tuesday night on my way to the local trans meeting. Unless you looked closely, you would not be able to tell that I was wearing women's clothing. I purposely chose items that were unisex in nature. But I know they are women's clothing. For me it is getting used to being out in public in women's clothing, it is about overcoming my fear and anxiety at being myself.

My local trans group are going on a hiking trip together and I love hiking. I wasn't going to go because I was scared of being seen with people I've come to love as a second family. It was the most stupid thing I've ever felt. It took me a couple of weeks of telling myself off for behaving so pathetically. These are wonderful people, they're my people, and to feel shame because of the way I was raised disgusted me. I was so glad that I had the opportunity to cross town with one of the group after the last meeting because the only shame is feeling embarrassed. I made sure I was going on the next hiking trip.

So it is difficult to overcome... it is a conscious effort to beat that brainwashing. Hiding who I am is second nature, and I become very defensive of trying to protect the big secret. Letting go of that after over 40 years of hiding, is very hard. I would get defensive against those who probably recognised that I was female, girls who wanted to put make up on me, or the idea of wearing a dress for fancy dress and a laugh... it meant so much more to me and the fear of people discovering my secret terrified me. So my reaction would be chauvinistic. I would find myself emulating my father. Then feel disgusted in myself afterwards for doing so, and beat me up with constant replays in my head.

And now, I face the challenge of coming out to people like my sister and mother, who in the past I've treated very poorly because I've tried to keep this secret. I disgust myself. I'm slowly replacing the shame of being transgender with the shame of how I've hidden it for so long. The shame of being embarrassed to be who I am. 

It is slow steps, but steps in the right direction. I deprogrammed the racism over 20 years ago and I deprogrammed the homophobia shortly afterwards. I stopped the politics of hate. Now it is time to deprogram the need to hide. It won't be easy, but it is something I will put all my effort into doing. Never again will I feel embarrassment or shame at being with some of the most wonderful people I've ever met who have only ever showed me kindness, support, and friendship. I truly disgusted myself... that's the only shame I should be feeling now.

Sorry... I didn't mean this reply to become so self absorbed. I will not delete it because there might be something in it that is helpful. Sorry.

Little steps and we can overcome it.

[Linde]

Hello again Shannon

I was born in 1955.

Not only was homosexuality frowned upon and hated by many (whether religious or not), it was illegal to practice homosexuality till 1967 here in UK. "Gay" became the term used after 1971. The societal anti-reaction was in the majority certainly till the 1980s. Thankfully since the millennium it is now only a minority that are opposed to gay people.

Hugs

Pamela

Germany was pretty much the same.  The negative word for gay men were Homo's.  I can't remember whether lesbian acts among women was also illegal.  We never heard anything about them.

This anti gay attitude is so deep embedded in me that I still get negative vibes when I hear the term homosexual.  Gay does not create that reaction, bcause gay was not known back than.
My parents were very loving, and supportive, and made sure that the girlish boy I was had not to endure negative things from school (they wrote excuse notes so I had not to participate in most sports), and my dad came down on everybody who treated me bad.
One phy ed teacher forced me to participate in weiht lifting stuff, and made fun of me that I could not do what my peers could lift.  I went home that day and told my dad.  Sadly for the teacher, he didn't know hat the principal and my dad were pretty good friends.  I don't know th lecture the teacher got, but he came he next day and apologized in front of the entire class  to me!
My parents were hoping that I would have been a girl, and I have the feeling, they would have been happy if I would have shown signs of being trans, and I would be the girl they wanted!
I did not know who or what I was, and had no gender identity, but my parents made sure that I could develop the way they felt I needed to develop an what was good for me.  I think my very liberal and loving upbringing allowed me to become the person who I am, and helped me to be pretty successful in my life.
Concerning my transition, I feel that my confidence helps me a lot.  I do not have any doubts whether it is right what I do.  I did do my research, and I am gong for it!  People are either with me, or I leave them behind.

[HappyMoni]

It is amazing how being raised can truly make you blind to what is really in front of you. Like I grew up in a small town where calling a guy a girl or gay was directed as an insult if you didn't seem man enough for doing something stupid or not giving in to peer pressure.

I was raised in such a judgemental uneducated way that I can not just push these untrue thoughts and beliefs out of the way and just focus on what is true and real.

Sorry if I am not getting this across very well.

I would love to hear Everyone's thoughts on how you were raised, how this effected your transition and how you pushed past these hateful beliefs.

Thanks xo

Hi Shannon,
   I was born in the late 50's, so yeah, a lot of mental baggage goes with that. Rather than describe that in detail, I would rather urge you not to worry too much about the mind job your upbringing did on you. Am I right in thinking you are planning a full transition? It isn't clear to me in your post. If that is the case, you will find that over time, these mental hiccups of acceptance will fall away as you embrace your true self. For me, the further into my transition, the more the things I thought were taboos for me, became part of my normal life. Move like a girl, talk like a girl, wear this or that feminine piece of clothes? It all becomes natural. Your mind needs time to release the old normal and accept the new. So, consider thinking "It hasn't happened yet." rather than "I can't get past this weird upbringing of mine." kind of thing.
   As for your close male relatives, those relationships will change. I had a good friend who was having a hard time adjusting to me after transition. He said, "You were my best male friend, like a brother. And that is lost to me." Of course, I tried to tell him, "I'm still the same person." He said, "No, you aren't. The relationship has changed." After a bit of soul searching, I said to myself, "He is right! His seeing me as different was a sign of acceptance of this new me I have become, the real me."  Now, he kind of sees me as his sister. He is protective of me which is kind of cute, but the kind of conversations we have are different. We could still do things like build stuff together, 'manly' stuff lol, but things won't be the same. I would say that it is better because anything now would be the real me, not the 'brother' who was really not there.
Moni

[Chloe]

Wow this thread is turning into a novel! My only request is that people don't "quote" too much would be tough if reading from a phone!
        My parents were pretty much like Kylo's I suppose . . . In the 1950's pine barrens of NJ mother was very loving and father traveled all the time, in and out, and when he was home prone to taking "naps" but otherwise us kids (4 of us) were on our own to do whatever we willed. Both parents were ex-military, it's where they first met, but don't recall any "anti-gay" sentiment or bigotry per-se as one of my father's best co-worker friends turned out to be a transexual which I only heard about much later . . .
         Is it possible for a 5 to 6-year-old to have a "smooth vinyl" fetish I remember being attracted to what certain boys & girls were wearing? While I played alot with 'lil sister and girl next door it wasn't until I was 12 to 13 that sexual experimentation with a boy across the street became a regular thing . . . At the time I thought it highly unfair he'd only let me "play" the girl but not the boy but I'd hardly call it "abuse", enjoyed our encounters alot!
         Fast foward to three different High Schools in three different states and, being "new" all the time, turned out most of my best friends were soon to be out-of-closet "gay". Second (and last) Evil Step-mother tried to warn my soon "wife-to-be" about my choice of friends. Thinking back on it I was over thirty at the time and had just started a new job related to my father's line of work. Well, having already been taking hormones prior (Premarin) wife knew differently and didn't care suppose she thought she could "cure me"?
         Stopped HRT for a long time until again in 2006 . . . I typed a "rant" about homosexual attitudes the other day. It's posted below plz don't take offense I'm curious what y'all think!

         Ok just more rambling thoughts but sometimes I am amazed by some "kindred trans people's" one-sided view of things. So we've bought into the idea that it's not ok for a former guy to be attracted to another guy (homosexuality) but a soon to be woman attracted to other women is quite ok? In our attempt to find some sort of normalcy in our lives are we not just following the easiest path of least resistance? Are we so down on "the male side" of ourselves that we cannot find any goodness in those other men at all?

        It's also been drummed into us that gender identity/physical sex has absolutely nothing to do with "sexual orientation". Aren't we simply reaffirming "the new established oppression" that all male sex is BAD yet lesbian not? To my mind, and in the interest of a long sought after "normalcy", I find this all to be very unnatural as well! While I do realize we're all pretty much the product of our own personal experiences it was precisely my attraction toward attentive men as a woman that helped confirm my confidence as "trans" in the first place!

        I suppose we're all just creatures of old habits, what we're "most comfortable" with, but I definitely do see a difference between what's called "early onset" and "late". To now say one is non-practicing or "asexual" is just skirting the whole issue (pun intended), not really saying anything, and is missing/depriving oneself of a "normalcy" that I find is the most healthy and reaffirming of all! So-called "modern society", unlike 50 years ago, is slowly getting away from "extremely binary gender roles" and I do not see this as a good thing but, rather, see "the binary" as precisely where our best strengths lie . . .

        I mean if gender & sexuality is fast becoming such a modern "free for all" then WHY do we bother wanting to transition at all? Because women are allowed to be "more expressive" yet men not? I find that ridiculous, bordering on traitorous, plz don't ever deny where "I' originally came from! So I'm a "homosexual transexual" you say? Last time I checked a double-negative cancels itself OUT!

[Alice (nym)]

I don't think the asexual thing is skirting the issue. Some people genuinely have no interest in sex... my wife is cis gendered and she has zero interest in sex. Sex was always a struggle for her and sometimes I think seeing me dressed was just the excuse she wanted to see her asexuality as normal.

I personally am seriously not bothered if I am with a man or a woman. As long as I am treated as feminine in the bedroom, I don't mind. I am genuinely attracted to a person's personality. Particularly, I like kindness, compassion, and charisma. I am told that makes me pansexual... I just like to think I am complicated. I tend not to think about my sexuality much because I am a very loyal person and as along as I am with my wife, I tend not to look at other people in a sexual manner. It is like a switch, and at the moment it is in the off position.

I don't think being a lesbian should question how trans you are, and I don't think it should make any difference if you are with a man or woman. Me being transgender is not just about sex. I would be lying if I said that I didn't want to experience being penetrated with a vagina because I do want that experience. So there is a level of sex involved but it is not a major thing. I've wanted to be a girl long before I had any sexual urges towards other people. It is the same with clothing. For me it is not about dress up either. Clothes are a means of expressing your identity and I appreciate that... but ultimately, I want to be able to stand naked in front of the mirror and see a woman looking back at me. And I want other people to recognise that I am a woman and treat me with respect as a woman. That has very little to do with sexuality.

My wife is worried that when I start HRT that it will change my sexuality. They are genuine concerns because my sexuality is quite fluid. I might find I am more attracted to men, I might find I am not attracted to women anymore. But I like to think that I am not shallow enough to leave her if she stuck by me and helped me transition. I honestly do not know what the future will bring.

Gender and sexuality are related to some people and not related to others. Is my sexuality governed because I am trans?  I honestly do not know. I do know enough people whose sexuality changed, and just as many whose sexuality stayed the same. But surely if you liked women as a man, and then you liked men as a woman... it just means you are straight.

[Linde]

        I mean if gender & sexuality is fast becoming such a modern "free for all" then WHY do we bother wanting to transition at all? Because women are allowed to be "more expressive" yet men not? I find that ridiculous, bordering on traitorous, plz don't ever deny where "I' originally came from! So I'm a "homosexual transexual" you say? Last time I checked a double-negative cancels itself OUT!

I consider myself to be asexual, because I have to yet meet a person, who would trigger any sexual desire in me.  I also have close to no libido left (and that is at least for 5 or more years the case.  No libido makes life way easier for me.
and no, I do not transition (or in my case, I see it as reclaiming my original body) to be more expressive.  I do not foresee any changes in my sexual behavior once my reclaiming is finished.  All my life I was never  interested in any romantic relation with a male (considering that I was biologically mostly female all my life, this amazes me as much as it might amaze you), and I am still not interested in men.
I did some real deep soul searching, because I actually would not mind to be interested in men, because that would double my possibility to find a partner, but i cannot find a single attribute (except if the know how to swing wrenches  ) that would make me to like one romantically.
To summarize it, my changing into a woman has absolutely nothing to do with my sexual orientation.  I want to be a woman, because I want to be a woman, and my sexual orientation has not changed a bit because of this wish.  Society just gives me the new label "lesbian", which I do not really like wear.  My label is that I am continue to be interested in women only.

[pamelatransuk]

Chloe/Alice

As you have started talking about asexuality, I just thought you may wish to see my thread "For Asexual or Mainly Asexual Transgender Members Please"  (attached below) which was quite brief in August but in December I referred my friend Linde to it and she and many others contributed to it then.

Thee are many asexual people whether trans or cis and I agree entirely with Linde that my transition has nothing to do with sexual orientation. Prior to transition, I was mainly asexual and now I am mainly asexual with minor lesbian tendencies. I see sexual participation as completely voluntary. I expect to remain asexual but I leave any other option open as I cannot predict the future.

Please feel free to comment on my thread by all means - but it is another novel to read!

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,240214.0.html

Hugs to all

Pamela  xx

[HappyMoni]

Not trying to be a jerk here, but I am wondering if we are wandering away from Shannon's original posting. I thought she was asking about attitudes from our upbringing affecting self acceptance during transition, and how we push past the hateful views of those around us growing up.

[Alice (nym)]

Not being a jerk at all Moni... bringing words of wisdom as always. I apologise for my part in side tracking the thread.

[Chloe]

. . how we push past the hateful views of those around us growing up.

         Not jumping to Alice's defense but very few "men", cis, gay or otherwise compared to trans girls and women, are "asexual" which is kinda the whole point don't ya's think? Ever notice how many young, beautiful women are with often over-weight, doofis looking guys? What's with that? It's an entirely different dynamic and until one has actually enjoyed admiring male attention as a woman nothing more can to be said. No judgment here, taking the "high road: ain't easy, of course to each their own!

         As far as growing up with "hateful attitudes" not all experience that, know my family was/is accepting of "me" rest of the world be *damned*! Father was exec management I was union but hardcore "attitudes" can change once one stands up, throws off all the self "guilt and recriminations" and sig others realize just how personal & close to "home" we really are!

( ps: As typing this just called the Sheriff to the house! No way druggy boyfriend, crazy and bantering the "long-haired freak your transgender" card, is gonna take 2-month-old grandbaby away without my daughter! )

[randim]

         
( ps: As typing this just called the Sheriff to the house! No way druggy boyfriend, crazy and bantering the "long-haired freak your transgender" card, is gonna take 2-month-old grandbaby away without my daughter! )

Yuck.  That sounds nasty.  Good luck.

[pamelatransuk]

Chloe

I agree with you that there are significantly more trans asexual people than cis asexual people and this is covered on the "Mainly Asexual" thread. You may wish to comment on that thread but only if you wish of course.

Now as Moni correctly points out, perhaps we can revert back to the origin of this thread. I replied at reply 1 about the general situation when I was younger. As regards my personal situation, my parents did not overly object when I was a child and assumed my desire to be a little girl would go away which it didn't. When I grew up, my parents opposed the way I am. I loved my mum very much indeed but she passed in 2015 and her view, I'm sorry to say, was "What will the neighbours think?" I can truly say that although I was upset at my parents viewpoint, it did not bother me outside of my family. I am frankly completely indifferent to previous and present neighbours and couldn't give a hoot what they may think.

Hugs to all

Pamela  xx 

[AnneK]

I loved my mum very much indeed but she passed in 2015 and her view, I'm sorry to say, was "What will the neighbours think?"

I have no idea what my mother would have said, as I was always too scared to bring up the topic and she never expressed any opinion on it that I recall hearing.