Progesterone Is Important for Transgender Women’s Therapy

[Kirsteneklund7]

Thank you for putting that most  informative post out there Liz. Believe it or not I too am going through the correct channels as I have for Sandrena & Androcur- ( Informed Consent).

My health & vitals have been monitored closely to this point.

I am confident my prescribing doctor will provide a script on the 29th  of March when they become available and I will report further.

The main foreseeable issue I might have is slightly elevated blood pressure. I am maintaining less weight and regular exercise for this. Also my understanding is that progesterone ofsets risk of breast cancer - I will ask about it.

PS It sounds like your bloods may have been taken shortly after a dose instead of just before a dose ie 24 hours after previous. I have been through similar establishing my dose (pre op mtf for me).

It will.be interesting to see what all the girls report back on mood, fat transfer, breast development and general health.

I would love to hear your first hand experience Liz!

Kindest regards, Kirsten.


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[LizK]

Those results are from a mid afternoon testing which was 4.5 hrs after Sandrena gel applied. My Dr is saying that I was getting much better absorption rates when doing it on the underarm than on the inner thigh which accounts for the lower results.  Ideally she wants testing no sooner than 2 hrs after application of the gel...my Testosterone was at an expected 0.01 since I no longer have any equipment to produce any.

I almost forgot she has asked me to apply the gel to an area no bigger than one palm as this will improve the concentration...it sounds counter intuitive to me but she also has many years of experience to go by so will try it and see.

[Kirsteneklund7]

Having a surf of the web seems to suggest E + P therapy increases breast cancer risk. I wonder if anybody out there has some medical advice on that ?

With interest Kirsten


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[pamelatransuk]

Doctors, media and many other entities tend to sometimes confuse progesterone with other progestogens, namely medroxyprogesterone acetate.

PROGESTERONE is the hormone that is naturally produced in the human body, in greater quantities in women during the second part of their menstrual cycle and in very high quantities during pregnancy. It is available as oral Prometrium or Utrogestan, in suppositories as Cyclogest and as IM injection and it can also be compounded. During pregnancy, it is sometimes prescribed to women to prevent miscarriage or preterm delivery. It is also prescribed to women going through in-vitro fertility. The vast majority of studies have shown it DOES NOT increase breast cancer risk. Pregnancy, a time when progesterone levels are VERY high, has also been associated with a decreased risk of breast cancer.

MEDROXYPROGESTERONE ACETATE, on the other hand, was associated in a very large randomized trial from 2003 (Women's Health Initiative), with an increase in breast cancer incidence relative to women who weren't taking it. The bad press comes from this progestogen and also other progestogens that have been linked in other numerous studies to an increased risk of breast cancer and cardiovascular morbidity. This progestogen is NEVER prescribed to pregnant women as it can be mildly androgenic and can be harmful for the female fetus. It is not produced in the human body. It has also been associated with an increased risk of clots, been reported to adversely affect the cardiovascular system and sometimes dysregulate mood.

The issue with medroxyprogesterone acetate has mostly to do with its adverse effects on the cardiovascular system, breast tissue and coagulation whereas progesterone appears to have none of those adverse effects. MPA reduces estrogen's beneficial effects on lipids and vasodilating effects in arteries. Medroxyprogesterone is also slightly androgenic (activates androgen receptors) in contrast to progesterone which does not.

Progesterone production does not usually start in ciswomen until about Tanner 4 stage breast development. The passage to Tanner 5 stage breast development, significant (in terms of size/shape) according to Tanner scale/diagram, may be mediated by progesterone.

Kirsten

I note you are asking for evidence that E+P Therapy may increase breast cancer risk and that is a fair question.

My reading both from the evidence provided by Jessica at the start of this thread and by KayXo above is that the assumption of increased BC risk was a misunderstanding and may have applied previously with Progestins (MPA) but the opposite is the current medical thinking with regard to the proper stuff - Progesterone. Reduction instead of increased BC risk.

Hugs

Pamela

[Linde]

Some of the increase of breast cancer risk maybe simply because it causes bigger boobs.  It is a simple calculation, because if you have more breast tissue, you have more tissue to create cancer in.  That is the reason why females have way more breast cancer incidents than males,  breast cancer itself is not gender specific, it just depends on the kind and amount of tissue to develop in.

I wonder how breast size gets included into the statistics?

[CindyLouFromCO]

Having a surf of the web seems to suggest E + P therapy increases breast cancer risk. I wonder if anybody out there has some medical advice on that ?

With interest Kirsten


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Not if you use micronized Progesterone.  The study done on that was using medroxyprogesterone.  Yes, don't use this form of Progesterone.

Google "Beverly Cosgrove HRT" and all the data and info you need is on her HRT site.  She is very friendly and will answer any questions you have if she can. 

There is a lot of info on her site that is current.




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[Kirsteneklund7]

Thank you Pamela. I will keep the knowledge of the different progesterones in mind when I see my endo on the 29th.

That makes sense Linde. Also I guess any tissue growth that is fueled by the endocrine system can potentially become cancerous.

I am definately having a read of Beverly Cosgrove CindyLou - thank you so much.

Kirsten x.

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[steph2.0]

that endocrinologist has good experience with trans children and adolescents? because my endocrinologist was only expert in the treatment of pubertal blockage when I was 12 years old, and when I started at 14 with estradiol she was very insecure that it could happen so she had me in very very low doses.

If he is only an expert in trans adults, it would be good to know.

I don't know the answer to your question. From his Facebook page it seems that he may specialize in adults, but due to the sensitivity of treatment of children and adolescents, he may be deliberately avoiding any mention of that. I'd recommend contacting his office for more information.

On the other hand, I just ran across an announcement that GenderGP, which I believe is a gender clinic in the UK, is doing a livestream about transgender youth on March 31st. Here's a link for more information. https://gendergp.co.uk/liveonlineevent/.

I hope that's helpful.

Stephanie

[Laurie]

  One important fact about Beverly Cosgrove you all should know.  Her articles include this statement:

"Disclaimers: (1) my personal experience may differ from some others. I was a DES baby and had some observable feminization from birth, and so my male endocrine system may have been easier to suppress than average. I have urogenital characteristics which imply the existence of some internal intersex anatomy. However, I did manage to generate two children by the usual method, so I was originally a chromosomal male. (2) In addition, I am a patient, not a doctor. This article should be a starting point for your own medical decisions in conjunction with your doctor. Nevertheless I have observed myself and many others on varying hormonal regimens for nearly 30 years, and am reporting on my experience and observations."

I am not saying Beverly Cosgrove or KayXo are providing incorrect information, I only point out that neither are Qualified medical professionals.  The article  referenced in the beginning of this thread is however from a Qualified professional source. You may want to choose what you bring to your doctor carefully.

Laurie

[Cindy]

I have unlocked the topic after removing a post.

Please be aware of posts that break TOS10 - no matter who is being bashed.

Diatribes against the medical community or the health community in general are not wanted on this Forum.

I also caution against self medication. 

Cindy
Forum Administrator

[Tessa James]

I will add my positive experience to the pool of progesterone users.  I have been on P for about two years and started out using the cycling routine to mimic a cis female.  Welcome changes to my skin and breasts were some of the results.  I actually experienced more mood swings with that regimen and have since been on P daily for over a year.  I appreciated greater fullness of my breasts, the same improvements for my skin and better sleep almost every night.

Moods?  Well, i am still a challenging and cranky bitch at times but this transition seems wonderful and I am happy every day too.

[Kirsteneklund7]

I will add my positive experience to the pool of progesterone users.  I have been on P for about two years and started out using the cycling routine to mimic a cis female.  Welcome changes to my skin and breasts were some of the results.  I actually experienced more mood swings with that regimen and have since been on P daily for over a year.  I appreciated greater fullness of my breasts, the same improvements for my skin and better sleep almost every night.

Moods?  Well, i am still a challenging and cranky bitch at times but this transition seems wonderful and I am happy every day too.

I'm still wondering what sort of bitch to be
Cranky sounds good. So does big bitch, nasty bitch, or even smart-ass bitch.

Kirsten x.

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[KayXo]

Girls,

It's really important to understand the difference between progesterone and other progestins as the latter are man-created, not naturally produced by our bodies and as a result, due to their different molecular structure, have a different effect on the body as a whole due to their particular affinity and activation of different steroid receptors (androgen, mineralocorticoid, glucocorticoid, estrogen). This also results in different long-term effects.

It's often assumed that risks (cardiovascular, breast cancer, etc.) observed with progestins will also apply to progesterone but one should, IMHO, question such assumptions due to the different molecular structures. Studies have actually so far not found any of the same health risks associated with progesterone, pregnant women's progesterone levels also skyrocket and ciswomen cyclically produce progesterone during decades...food for thought. Are most ciswomen being rushed to the hospital?

Lastly, cyproterone acetate, a progestin, is still recommended (since the late 1980's) and included in the treatment for transwomen outside of the US despite the fact that progesterone is vilified and not recommended due to health risks associated with progestins. Why is that?

You can bring up these issues during your discussion with your doctor, see what they say.

[Tessa James]

I'm still wondering what sort of bitch to be
Cranky sounds good. So does big bitch, nasty bitch, or even smart-ass bitch.

Kirsten x.

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LMAO, A dear friend subscribes to the excellent feminist magazine by that same name.

[Kirsteneklund7]

LMAO, A dear friend subscribes to the excellent feminist magazine by that same name.

Interesting - I like printed magazines(and digital). I will check that out.

I like to read an Antonia Case magazine called Womankind. Full of thoughtful advice for living in the modern world.

Kirsten x.

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[pamelatransuk]

Kirsten

Just to confirm that I started on daily Progesterone (Utrogestan) authorized by my Endo on March 17th. I shall provide details of my subsequent feelings on my "HRT Record" thread in April/May.

I wish you good luck both in being authorized and in starting.

Hugs

Pamela

[Kirsteneklund7]

Kirsten

Just to confirm that I started on daily Progesterone (Utrogestan) authorized by my Endo on March 17th. I shall provide details of my subsequent feelings on my "HRT Record" thread in April/May.

I wish you good luck both in being authorized and in starting.

Hugs

Pamela

So looking forward to hearing about it all Pamela.

I wonder if estrogen for a year or so followed by progesterone is beneficial for breasts. I wonder if progesterone from the very start gets the same results?

I guess we will both know a lot more very soon !

Yours truly, Kirsten.

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[pamelatransuk]

Hello Kirsten

I note from the other Progesterone thread that you obtained Besins Prometrium from you Endo today and that like me your medication is taken each day and not cycled.

Congratulations! We can compare notes in the next few weeks and months.

Hugs

Pamela

[Kirsteneklund7]

Hello Kirsten

I note from the other Progesterone thread that you obtained Besins Prometrium from you Endo today and that like me your medication is taken each day and not cycled.

Congratulations! We can compare notes in the next few weeks and months.

Hugs

Pamela

Thats true Pamela! I am excited ! I really wonder about 1. Mood.  2. Breast growth.

I will be in close contact with personal findings.

Yours truly  Kirsten.[emoji3404]

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[pamelatransuk]

Kirsten

Just to let you know that like Laurie (on the other Progesterone thread), I also seek improvements to Bone Density as I have had Osteoporosis since 2007 but there was an improvement after annual infusions. I seek Progesterone primarily for breast maturation and for the yet unproven but hopeful sign of areolae increase.

Just to let you know that after 14 days on Progesterone, I have certainly noticed that I sleep better - both deeper and with less interruption.

As I said previously, I shall provide updates in April/May and subsequently on my "HRT Record" thread.

Hugs

Pamela