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Progesterone Is Important for Transgender Women’s Therapy

Started by Jessica, March 09, 2019, 06:44:42 PM

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Jessica

@Dietlind

Quote from: Dietlind on April 10, 2019, 08:12:02 PM
I will see my endo tomorrow,  He feels that he is the best transgender endo the world has ever seen!  I emailed him all the information quite a while ago, and wonder what he has to say about it, and if he prescribes progesterone for me!

Print out a copy, highlighting important parts, ask questions and wait for, but know the answers.

"If you go out looking for friends, you are going to find they are very scarce.  If you go out to be a friend, you'll find them everywhere."


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pamelatransuk

Jess

Hopefully this research (January 2019) will not only help so many Susans Members but also so many doctors and endos worldwide may be prompted to take account and amend their thinking and diagnoses.

Linde

Good luck with the feedback and prescription from your endo.

Hugs

Pamela


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Jessica

I believe I'm remiss in mentioning that my dear friend and sister @Laurie was the origin of this article.  She gave it to me the last time I saw her a while ago.  She deserves the kudos. 

"If you go out looking for friends, you are going to find they are very scarce.  If you go out to be a friend, you'll find them everywhere."


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Kirsteneklund7

Quote from: Jessica on April 11, 2019, 11:20:31 AM
I believe I'm remiss in mentioning that my dear friend and sister @Laurie was the origin of this article.  She gave it to me the last time I saw her a while ago.  She deserves the kudos.
Thank you Laurie.!

From Kirsten x.

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As a child prayed to be a girl- now the prayer is being answered - 40 years later !
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Myranda

Quote from: Jessica on April 11, 2019, 11:20:31 AM
I believe I'm remiss in mentioning that my dear friend and sister @Laurie was the origin of this article.  She gave it to me the last time I saw her a while ago.  She deserves the kudos.

thank you @Laurie!


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ChrissyRyan

Quote from: Jessica on April 11, 2019, 11:20:31 AM
I believe I'm remiss in mentioning that my dear friend and sister @Laurie was the origin of this article.  She gave it to me the last time I saw her a while ago.  She deserves the kudos.


Thank you Laurie.

Chrissy
Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.  Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Help connect a person to someone that may be able to help that person.  Be brave, be strong.  A TRUE friend is a treasure.  Relationships are very important, people are important, and the sooner we all realize that the better off the world will be.  Try a little kindness.  Be generous with your time, energy, wisdom, and resources.   Inconvenience yourself to help someone.   I am a brown eyed, brown haired woman. 
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Linde

Well my visit at my endo ended the way I expected.  It has to be said that he also the leading reproductive health physician in this area.  He did his homework on the paper.  He said, and showed me that the paper is pretty flawed, and important information has been omitted from the citations.  He said, he has the feeling the author was on a mission  for some reason.
He told me that teenage girls are well into their ovulation time (about 2 years after they stat to ovulate) until their body produces progesterone.  He is of the opinion that the breast tissue of the trans woman is pretty different of that of a cis woman, which would make progesterone relatively worthless for trans women.  And that this is also the reason that the WPATH recommends in their standard of care not to give progesterone earlier than at least 2 years of starting on estrogen.  He told me we can talk about this in about 1 1/2 year from now.  Any earlier would just be a waste of money and creating false hope.  He is also of the opinion that, because of our difference in breast tissue, as compared to cis women, mammograms are a waste of money.  He has ye to hear a report that a transgender woman developed breast cancer, and he is treating transgender people since 36 years.
On the positive side, he is happy with my estrogen level, which is, according to him, that of a female on her 10 day of the ovulation period, and he gave me a new script for E for the next 9 months.
He said that we never ever have o measure my T again, because it is currently the highest it ever will be!

Linde, the for ever ovulating transgender woman fueled solely by estrogen! :-*
02/22/2019 bi-lateral orchiectomy






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ChrissyRyan

Quote from: Dietlind on April 11, 2019, 09:01:14 PM
Well my visit at my endo ended the way I expected.  It has to be said that he also the leading reproductive health physician in this area.  He did his homework on the paper.  He said, and showed me that the paper is pretty flawed, and important information has been omitted from the citations.  He said, he has the feeling the author was on a mission  for some reason.
He told me that teenage girls are well into their ovulation time (about 2 years after they stat to ovulate) until their body produces progesterone.  He is of the opinion that the breast tissue of the trans woman is pretty different of that of a cis woman, which would make progesterone relatively worthless for trans women.  And that this is also the reason that the WPATH recommends in their standard of care not to give progesterone earlier than at least 2 years of starting on estrogen.  He told me we can talk about this in about 1 1/2 year from now.  Any earlier would just be a waste of money and creating false hope.  He is also of the opinion that, because of our difference in breast tissue, as compared to cis women, mammograms are a waste of money.  He has ye to hear a report that a transgender woman developed breast cancer, and he is treating transgender people since 36 years.
On the positive side, he is happy with my estrogen level, which is, according to him, that of a female on her 10 day of the ovulation period, and he gave me a new script for E for the next 9 months.
He said that we never ever have o measure my T again, because it is currently the highest it ever will be!

Linde, the for ever ovulating transgender woman fueled solely by estrogen! :-*


Linde,

Thank you for your interesting reporting of what your medical specialist said to you today in regards to progesterone and trans-women's breast tissue composition as compared to cis-women.

It is also interesting knowing of his opinion of mammograms for trans-women.


Chrissy
Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.  Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Help connect a person to someone that may be able to help that person.  Be brave, be strong.  A TRUE friend is a treasure.  Relationships are very important, people are important, and the sooner we all realize that the better off the world will be.  Try a little kindness.  Be generous with your time, energy, wisdom, and resources.   Inconvenience yourself to help someone.   I am a brown eyed, brown haired woman. 
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Kirsteneklund7

Quote from: Dietlind on April 11, 2019, 09:01:14 PM
Well my visit at my endo ended the way I expected.  It has to be said that he also the leading reproductive health physician in this area.  He did his homework on the paper.  He said, and showed me that the paper is pretty flawed, and important information has been omitted from the citations.  He said, he has the feeling the author was on a mission  for some reason.
He told me that teenage girls are well into their ovulation time (about 2 years after they stat to ovulate) until their body produces progesterone.  He is of the opinion that the breast tissue of the trans woman is pretty different of that of a cis woman, which would make progesterone relatively worthless for trans women.  And that this is also the reason that the WPATH recommends in their standard of care not to give progesterone earlier than at least 2 years of starting on estrogen.  He told me we can talk about this in about 1 1/2 year from now.  Any earlier would just be a waste of money and creating false hope.  He is also of the opinion that, because of our difference in breast tissue, as compared to cis women, mammograms are a waste of money.  He has ye to hear a report that a transgender woman developed breast cancer, and he is treating transgender people since 36 years.
On the positive side, he is happy with my estrogen level, which is, according to him, that of a female on her 10 day of the ovulation period, and he gave me a new script for E for the next 9 months.
He said that we never ever have o measure my T again, because it is currently the highest it ever will be!

Linde, the for ever ovulating transgender woman fueled solely by estrogen! :-*
I hate to say it but that doctor is a doodlebasher( wanker ). When you say my Endo- why not say my Dr Doodlebasher!

Kirsten x.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

As a child prayed to be a girl- now the prayer is being answered - 40 years later !
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Jessica

@Dietlind

Quote from: Dietlind on April 11, 2019, 09:01:14 PM
Well my visit at my endo ended the way I expected.  It has to be said that he also the leading reproductive health physician in this area.  He did his homework on the paper.  He said, and showed me that the paper is pretty flawed, and important information has been omitted from the citations.  He said, he has the feeling the author was on a mission  for some reason.
He told me that teenage girls are well into their ovulation time (about 2 years after they stat to ovulate) until their body produces progesterone.  He is of the opinion that the breast tissue of the trans woman is pretty different of that of a cis woman, which would make progesterone relatively worthless for trans women.  And that this is also the reason that the WPATH recommends in their standard of care not to give progesterone earlier than at least 2 years of starting on estrogen.  He told me we can talk about this in about 1 1/2 year from now.  Any earlier would just be a waste of money and creating false hope.  He is also of the opinion that, because of our difference in breast tissue, as compared to cis women, mammograms are a waste of money.  He has ye to hear a report that a transgender woman developed breast cancer, and he is treating transgender people since 36 years.
On the positive side, he is happy with my estrogen level, which is, according to him, that of a female on her 10 day of the ovulation period, and he gave me a new script for E for the next 9 months.
He said that we never ever have o measure my T again, because it is currently the highest it ever will be!

Linde, the for ever ovulating transgender woman fueled solely by estrogen! :-*

Linde, I think this is sound advice.  What your doctor stated is true about when progesterone starts being made in cis-girls is about two years after onset of ovulation.  Estrogen developes the ducts, progesterone developes the formation of secretory glands at the end of the milk ducts.  That I would think begins at about the breast development of Tanner stage 3.

That time scale may be flawed as I've been on Estradiol for more than a year and a half and my breasts are by all accounts at Tanner stage 4 and a "C" cup.  I have been feeling a different type of growth in my breasts since starting Progesterone nearly a month ago.  A deeper ache is what it feels like topped off with the ever present itching that has proven to be the prelude to a growth spurt. 

Hugs, Jess

"If you go out looking for friends, you are going to find they are very scarce.  If you go out to be a friend, you'll find them everywhere."


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Linde

Quote from: Kirsteneklund7 on April 11, 2019, 09:42:33 PM
I hate to say it but that doctor is a doodlebasher( wanker ). When you say my Endo- why not say my Dr Doodlebasher!

Kirsten x.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
He is considered the top person in his field in southern Florida.  Long Newspaper articles, etc. established his credentials.

I would not want to resort to name calling here, i don't agree with him a lot, but he is the one with the pen to write scripts! He is the third endo I am with here, the other two had not much clues about any transgender stuff!

I am happy that he wrote a script for a full 9 month of E for me, this way I will not run out of fuel soon!
02/22/2019 bi-lateral orchiectomy






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Kirsteneklund7

 Hopefully he has a lot of first hand experience with transgender patients.


Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

As a child prayed to be a girl- now the prayer is being answered - 40 years later !
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Linde

Quote from: Jessica on April 11, 2019, 09:58:07 PM
@Dietlind

That time scale may be flawed as I've been on Estradiol for more than a year and a half and my breasts are by all accounts at Tanner stage 4 and a "C" cup.  I have been feeling a different type of growth in my breasts since starting Progesterone nearly a month ago.  A deeper ache is what it feels like topped off with the ever present itching that has proven to be the prelude to a growth spurt. 

Hugs, Jess
As we say, YMMV, but in reality, you are still pretty close to the mark he did set for me.  He said that the breast of the trans man prior to that time mostly consists of fatty tissue that hardly reacts to progesterone.  Once milk ducts, etc have developed, progesterone may be a hormone to be considered!
I am just a few month on E, I don't know how much milk ducts are developed in my breasts because of my intersex condition, but I may just have had boob growth all with fatty tissue,  don't know, and have no desire to cut one of my girls open for conformation purposes.

Again, Jess, you are much closer to the two year mark than I am, and he may have made the right decision for me.  he furthermore said, that in his experience from girls with under developed breasts (he is also doing this fertility stuff), to early admission of progesterone may stifle the breast growth and or cause misinformed breasts.
I think he read the paper very careful, and made up his mind about it.
I think Kirsten is wrong to resort to name calling in this instance (as I said I don't really like him, but that is a different story)
02/22/2019 bi-lateral orchiectomy






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Linde

Quote from: Kirsteneklund7 on April 11, 2019, 10:17:26 PM
Hopefully he has a lot of first hand experience with transgender patients.


Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
He was recommended by two psychologists (among them my super therapist, who can' stand him either), and the endo I saw before him, who recommended him because he did not know much about transgender.
02/22/2019 bi-lateral orchiectomy






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Kirsteneklund7

Quote from: Jessica on April 11, 2019, 09:58:07 PM
@Dietlind

Linde, I think this is sound advice.  What your doctor stated is true about when progesterone starts being made in cis-girls is about two years after onset of ovulation.  Estrogen developes the ducts, progesterone developes the formation of secretory glands at the end of the milk ducts.  That I would think begins at about the breast development of Tanner stage 3.

That time scale may be flawed as I've been on Estradiol for more than a year and a half and my breasts are by all accounts at Tanner stage 4 and a "C" cup.  I have been feeling a different type of growth in my breasts since starting Progesterone nearly a month ago.  A deeper ache is what it feels like topped off with the ever present itching that has proven to be the prelude to a growth spurt. 

Hugs, Jess
You must be very happy with that breast growth Jessica. I would be so happy to be Tanner 4 C cup.
I will remain happy if I dont go past B cup though.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

As a child prayed to be a girl- now the prayer is being answered - 40 years later !
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pamelatransuk

COPIED FROM OTHER PROGESTERONE THREAD: Posted by Laurie March 30th 2019

I will let you read the information yourself. But the ones that interest are the possible cardiovascular possibilities, the possible cancer  risk lessening, and the bone mass help it may give. Since I have experienced cancer 3 times now and am supposed to be dead twice already, I will take any help I can get.  I have emphysema and atherosclerosis so I could use the possible cardio-vascular help. I also have been diagnosed wit osteopenia which is the start of osteoporosis,  so if it helps bone mass density I could use that also.  I hope that answers your question.

Hugs,
  Laurie
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Laurie

Jess informed us yesterday that you brought to her attention this very informative scientific evidence of January 2019 and I thank you for that. As you may see on this thread, it has created so much interest and discussion.

Hugs

Pamela 


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pamelatransuk

Linde/Jess/Kirsten

Thank you all for your comments yesterday. It is always wise to consider the other side of any theory and/or discussion. I note that you Jess are 18 months HRT, you Linde are more recent on HRT and you Kirsten are on HRT having been on it and off it previously. I am 14 months HRT and hence we shall all have different timespans of HRT to judge to what extent Progesterone may help us and after how long on Progesterone until we may see such benefits.

Hugs

Pamela


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Linde

Quote from: pamelatransuk on April 12, 2019, 03:49:12 AM
Linde/Jess/Kirsten

Thank you all for your comments yesterday. It is always wise to consider the other side of any theory and/or discussion. I note that you Jess are 18 months HRT, you Linde are more recent on HRT and you Kirsten are on HRT having been on it and off it previously. I am 14 months HRT and hence we shall all have different timespans of HRT to judge to what extent Progesterone may help us and after how long on Progesterone until we may see such benefits.

Hugs

Pamela
I still have a one month supply of the micronized progesterone cream, I am applying to my breasts.  I will continue to use it, until gone.  I have used it for about a little more than two month so far, I really don't know if it did some good or not.  If anything, all possible effects of it a very small, I think the best effect is, it seems to give me nice and smooth skin!  ;D
I would recommend against wasting ones money on this kind of stuff!  There is better, but cheaper skin care cream out there!
02/22/2019 bi-lateral orchiectomy






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Dorit

I am four months post op and 16 months on estrogen patches.   I too have shared the information from this tread with my endocrinologist.  I suffer from sleep difficulties and would greatly benefit from the bedtime regime of daily progesterone.  She was very interested and has herself researched the subject to some depth.   She is open to adding progesterone.  My next appointment and blood test is scheduled for May 27.    I have also shared some of the information with my local transgender forum here in Israel.  Thank you so much for this thread!
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Linde

Quote from: Dorit on April 13, 2019, 12:18:44 PM
I am four months post op and 16 months on estrogen patches.   I too have shared the information from this tread with my endocrinologist.  I suffer from sleep difficulties and would greatly benefit from the bedtime regime of daily progesterone.  She was very interested and has herself researched the subject to some depth.   She is open to adding progesterone.  My next appointment and blood test is scheduled for May 27.    I have also shared some of the information with my local transgender forum here in Israel.  Thank you so much for this thread!
I am not the super good sleeper either, and I mentioned this to my endo, but he said taking progesterone as a sleep medication is really a poor decision! There is better stuff around!
But again you are pretty close to the 2 years mark on estrogen, and he said at that time he would be willing to visit this again.
02/22/2019 bi-lateral orchiectomy






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