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Breast development

Started by RennyPop, March 24, 2019, 09:40:42 PM

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Courtney G

Quote from: Robbyv213 on May 24, 2024, 01:26:36 PMYou look very beautiful.

As for herbal supplements, in my research I came across another forum specifically for genetic males trying to grow breast any way shape or form possible. It covers using herbs like bovine ovary or pueraria mirifica a long with supporting supplements to stop converting test into dht, while supporting estrogen. Also covers hrt, breast pumping and massage, even surgery.
But just like hrt herbals take time even years to start working on the body and it's all just an experiment that's not supervised. If you're going to invest the time either way mind as well be supervised HRT

I started there, participating in that forum after years of dreaming of being a woman. At that point, I'd concluded that I was *simply* a "man who wanted to grow breasts."



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Paulie

Quote from: Courtney G on May 26, 2024, 10:26:53 PMI started there, participating in that forum after years of dreaming of being a woman. At that point, I'd concluded that I was *simply* a "man who wanted to grow breasts."

I started in a similar place for the same reason. 

I dabbled in some online herbs with minimal results.  While I was doing this, I took a very long plain trip with a window seat.  US west cost to Germany.  Being in the window seat I had to disturbed 2 others in order to get up and move around.  During the trip I developed a little soreness in one of my lower legs.  It had all the earmarks of Deep Vein Thrombosis.  It worked it self out after a day or so and on the return trip I switched to an aisle seat where I could get up easer, and also stretch my legs out into the aisle.  I don't know for sure If I had a little Deep Vein Thrombosis, and if I did, I don't know if it was the herbs along with the flight, but that was the end of the herbs for me.

It did take a little time once I talked to my GP about it, but it was fairly easy to get on HRT.  It's is something that really needs to be supervised with the blood tests and all.  I would not recommend that anyone should try it without medical supervision.

My male doctor had retired some years earlier and I had switched to a female GP that my wife was seeing.  I was able to approach her on the subject of my desire for breasts.  I'm not sure if I could have done that with my prior GP, or any male doctor for that matter.

I have to say, my GP has been great as well as her staff.

Paulie.
 
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ChrissyRyan

When the development comes in strong, that is so affirming.

Chrissy
Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.
Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Be brave, be strong.  Try a little kindness.  I am a brown eyed brunette. 
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Robbyv213

Yes. I have read many members of the other forum having developed bolt colts to these herbs. So it is very dangerous thing doing it in supervised, and takes longer than hrt. Mind as well not waste anytime and just go straight to hrt.

I can see maybe using it for a few months to see if you like the smaller changes of having more estrogen in ones systems, physically and mentally etc. but after a certain point again mind as well just switch to hrt.
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Sweet luck

Being on HRT for 3 months I do not see any breasts development. So I started intake folic acid 800mg daily.
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LoriDee

Quote from: Sweet luck on May 29, 2024, 05:46:06 AMBeing on HRT for 3 months I do not see any breasts development. So I started intake folic acid 800mg daily.

It takes six months or longer for the breasts to BEGIN to develop. Be patient. Folic acid is not going to speed it up. Cis-women go through puberty for years to become fully developed. It takes time and trying to make it go faster runs risks to your health. Unless you have some other health issue that requires folic acid supplements, save your money.
My Life is Based on a True Story.
https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,247442.0.html

Maybe the journey isn't so much about becoming anything.
Maybe it's about un-becoming everything that isn't really you,
so you can be who you were meant to be in the first place.


2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - Legal Name Change / 2024 - Voice Training

Gina P

Aside from a little nipple development and small buds, most of my breast development began around 1 year. Also the time I switched from patches to injected E.
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Robbyv213

I have heard many members that are on HRT, say they have success using bovine ovary, MSM and red reshi, green tea extract, progesterone cream and dhea. Granted there seems to be so many different ways and how and when to use them in different combinations. It really takes a huge understanding of what everything does and how the body reacts to it. Unless youve been doing research for a long time and really understand the human body than I would just do what the doctor advises.

Breast growth can really take awhile, 5 plus years, even a decade. Growth is a lot of hurry up and wait, some growth, periods of no growth. Most don't even reach stage 5 which is considered fully developed. And depending on your genetics you can really only hope to see about what any females in your family have in terms of cup size.

Although I dont recommend mixing herbals with prescriptions, there is a ton of information on there that both men and women use to grow breast tissue, and pictures to prove it. Very interesting. I have learned a lot about the human body and how it reacts and does things.more than I did when in school. I warn you though there is prob over 1000's of pages of information on there and there is no good way to find what youre looking for with our reading it all and hopefully luck to stumble on information that is useful
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Paulie

Quote from: Sweet luck on May 29, 2024, 05:46:06 AMBeing on HRT for 3 months I do not see any breasts development. So I started intake folic acid 800mg daily.

If you're on HRT under a doctor care you don't want to mix herbals and prescriptions.  Your doctor should be doing regular blood tests to check your hormone levels.  The herbals can cause false readings making it difficult for your doctor to properly regulate your hormone levels. 

This can further delay your breast development or worse lead to other health issues.

My first blood test after starting HRT was at 3 months and my GP made an adjustment at that time.  (I'm on oral HRT).  My next BT was at the 6-month mark.  My hormone levels were in the right range but still no breast development (nor breast tenderness). We left my meds where they were.

The next 6 months is where I started seeing some development.  Like the others have said, save your money and be patient.  Above all else don't ever, ever, ever, go the unsupervised route. 

Warm Regards,

Paulie. 

ChrissyRyan

I will say that I enjoy having my breasts. 

Chrissy
Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.
Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Be brave, be strong.  Try a little kindness.  I am a brown eyed brunette. 
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Robbyv213

Rome was not built in a day, and neither will your beautiful breast. But in time they will grow and they will be amazing, just like all the amazing and beautiful roman architecture.
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ChrissyRyan

Mine were not built in a day, that is for sure!

Chrissy
Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.
Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Be brave, be strong.  Try a little kindness.  I am a brown eyed brunette. 
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LoriDee

Mine weren't even built in a year.
Four years and still not even close. *sigh*
My Life is Based on a True Story.
https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,247442.0.html

Maybe the journey isn't so much about becoming anything.
Maybe it's about un-becoming everything that isn't really you,
so you can be who you were meant to be in the first place.


2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - Legal Name Change / 2024 - Voice Training
  • skype:.?call
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ChrissyRyan

Quote from: LoriDee on May 31, 2024, 04:17:08 PMMine weren't even built in a year.
Four years and still not even close. *sigh*

Well they must be built on a good foundation, and that takes time. After they get a nice start, they may develop further, in spurts.

So be patient, they may be coming.

Chrissy
Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.
Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Be brave, be strong.  Try a little kindness.  I am a brown eyed brunette. 
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LoriDee

I have labs on June 3, so we will see if I have finally reached my hormone target levels yet. It gets frustrating when they baby-step the dosage up a little at a time. I keep telling them that they have informed consent, so give me the maximum, and let's baby-step down to where I should be. I'm willing to take the risks (which are imagined by prescribers and not realistic). If I have a stroke, then it's on me and you can say, "I told you so". But they have to do it their way.

I have a plan on how to get my way. I won't discuss it here. But if I imply certain things, it would change the prescribing protocol. I have to discuss it with my doctor to feel out if it is a possibility. Nuff said.
My Life is Based on a True Story.
https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,247442.0.html

Maybe the journey isn't so much about becoming anything.
Maybe it's about un-becoming everything that isn't really you,
so you can be who you were meant to be in the first place.


2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - Legal Name Change / 2024 - Voice Training
  • skype:.?call
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ChrissyRyan

Quote from: LoriDee on May 31, 2024, 04:28:30 PMI have labs on June 3, so we will see if I have finally reached my hormone target levels yet. It gets frustrating when they baby-step the dosage up a little at a time. I keep telling them that they have informed consent, so give me the maximum, and let's baby-step down to where I should be. I'm willing to take the risks (which are imagined by prescribers and not realistic). If I have a stroke, then it's on me and you can say, "I told you so". But they have to do it their way.

I have a plan on how to get my way. I won't discuss it here. But if I imply certain things, it would change the prescribing protocol. I have to discuss it with my doctor to feel out if it is a possibility. Nuff said.

Their medical advice is conservative and maybe safer for you though.  More is not necessarily better. 

Did you try sublingual with your same dose, if you take tablets?

Strokes are to be avoided.  They can have serious consequences.  Have you seen the results of strokes?  I have, and they were not pleasant for those who had them.

We want you to be around too. 

Chrissy
Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.
Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Be brave, be strong.  Try a little kindness.  I am a brown eyed brunette. 
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LoriDee

Thanks, Chrissy.

I am on patches. I was on oral tabs twice and they don't seem to work well. My system metabolizes them too quickly, so I get the PMS rollercoaster every day. The patches smooth things out.

I realize they proceed cautiously, too cautiously. I can only speak for myself, but I have none of the risk factors: no family history of breast cancer, stroke, blood clots, or any of the alleged risks of taking hormones.

I say alleged because prescribers and even the FDA (U.S.) base their fears on the Women's Health Initiative Study. I have outlined my issues with that study in another post. Basically, the study found these risks in cis-women who were taking Premarin (Conjugated EQUINE Estrogen) with a synthetic progestin. I am not taking those. My prescriptions are for bioidentical hormones like those made in a human ovary.

Therefore, I should be able to raise my levels to the same levels that cis-women reach during pregnancy without any danger. Most pregnant women are not in any danger of cancer or strokes, so why would I be? So far, two Endocrinologists, two Family Practice Physicians, and a Gynecologist have been unable to explain to me why I would be at risk.

All I am asking is for someone to a) show me a study of transgender females taking bioidentical hormones developing cancers or blood clots with no prior medical or family history, or b) STFU and up my dose to those levels for 9 months. After nine months with hormones at pregnancy levels, there will be no more need for further high dosage because breast development will be as mature as it will ever get. Then levels can be brought down to baseline for the remainder of my lifetime. If there is any risk, it would be from keeping levels too high for too long, i.e. more than one year. There is no reason to do that.
My Life is Based on a True Story.
https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,247442.0.html

Maybe the journey isn't so much about becoming anything.
Maybe it's about un-becoming everything that isn't really you,
so you can be who you were meant to be in the first place.


2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - Legal Name Change / 2024 - Voice Training
  • skype:.?call
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Robbyv213

Could you use bio identical progesterone cream on your breast, to help promote growth?

I have done a lot of research on those breast growing forums, and the people on HRT are using progesterone cream with dhea mixed into it, theory behind it is that each area of the body has different abilities for estrogen receptors. Using progesterone topical cream with dhea mixed helps those receptors in the breast tissue.also helps mimic if one has ovaries and a menstrual cycle since progesterone is a product of that. I can find specific links to research articles that better explain it if you would like. It will just take some time digging and finding those posts again.

But the typical regimen for many that are on hrt is using bovine ovary (which cis women use sometimes as well), pituitary glandular, red reshi, msm, green tea extract, either iodine or kelp to help body temp (since Bovine has a specific temp it works best at) and only after they have breast buds they incorporate progesterone cream and dhea.  And that's all along with the prescription hrt.

Many also use breast pumps and massage to help blood flow and stimulation for growth.

Again I am not advocating use of herbals with HRT, nor would I be against it either. I have not used or tried it. I have no personal experiences I can only relate what I have read and done research on. But if you feel that your doctor is not meeting your needs you have to do what you have to do.

But you can increase your risk for blood clots, dvt, stroke and other things commonly associated with higher estrogen levels.

But on the flip side anyone using testosterone for a long time has the increased risk of prostate cancer, higher blood pressure, heart attack etc.

So there is no right or wrong answer. You have to do what you feel is best for you, and make the most informed decisions you can
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LoriDee

Quote from: Robbyv213 on May 31, 2024, 06:23:27 PMBut you can increase your risk for blood clots, dvt, stroke and other things commonly associated with higher estrogen levels.

This is what I am talking about. Read my lips: There are NO studies of transgender women using bioidentical hormones and suffering any of these without some prior medical or family history. All of these so-called risks are based on extrapolating data from the WHI study which does not apply. You can't see horse estrogen causing cancer and automatically assume human estrogen does too. If so, then pregnant women around the world would be getting cancer. They don't... unless they have a prior medical or family history.

I have been down the herbals, creams, and bovine ovary route. I spent a lot of money with a company, sponsored by an MD, and making all kinds of claims. Not only are the claims false, there is no scientific evidence supporting those claims. I did the research. Now, let's use a bit of logic. If Bovine ovary, or any other herbal, is so effective, why aren't the big pharmaceutical companies pushing it? It doesn't work.

Herbals rely on phytoestrogens, which are plant-based, not human-based. They are not bioidentical. They present such a weak estrogen, that they have little to no effect. They also will bind to the estrogen receptors and block prescription estrogen. You are better off not using them together. Creams are not well-formulated to penetrate the skin to get where they need to go. The receptors in the cells are not on the surface of the skin, they are deep in the tissue. Creams have a very difficult time getting that deep through all the layers of skin and fat. Not enough of it gets through to be effective and can block the receptors to prevent the stronger hormones from reaching their target.

Another marketing ploy is promoting DHEA, wild yams, pregnenolone, and other precursors to the actual hormone. The ploy is that by adding all the ingredients, your body will make the hormones themselves. Nothing could be further from the truth. You are mixing up a bunch of things that have little quality control on dose and purity, and zero regulatory oversight. That is just dangerous. If people want to go that route, that is their decision but I would strongly urge them to go the medical route where the meds are regulated, quality controlled, and the effects on your body can be monitored.

When I was first exploring these things, I had an online gaming friend in London. I won't name-drop but she is a well-known transgender gamer. I had been asking her advice as I was trying different things. She warned me very sternly to stop playing games with my health. She explained why what I was doing was wrong, it would not work, and said the only EFFECTIVE way to do this is through medically-prescribed hormones. I researched what she told me and confirmed that what she said was fact. Shortly after that conversation, I told my doctors that I was ready to start FHT (Feminizing Hormone Therapy).

Just because my biology is not responding the way I would like it to, is not the issue. I still rely on best-quality meds and follow-up monitoring so I know if they are working or not. If my target level is 200 or 250 (I have been told both of those), fine but I have only been above 100 once in four years. This is why we keep adjusting doses, changing brands, and so forth. The struggle continues but it is far from over.  ;D
My Life is Based on a True Story.
https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,247442.0.html

Maybe the journey isn't so much about becoming anything.
Maybe it's about un-becoming everything that isn't really you,
so you can be who you were meant to be in the first place.


2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - Legal Name Change / 2024 - Voice Training
  • skype:.?call
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Robbyv213

@LoriDee thank you for the information.

And yes there are no real studies of specific things on humans, mostly just animals and seeing if X, y, or z herb has an effect on estrogen or anti testosterone in the animals being tested on.

I can only speak for the blood clots and dvt reports by word of mouth since a hand full of the members of Breastnexum forum has reported that they developed these issues and were trying to warn others about it. Granted it is a public forum and people can post what ever they want. If they are truly having success or not, or developing health issues or not it's got to be taken with a grain of salt. Although I couldn't imagine why some one would lie about developing health issues such as dvt, blood clots or reporting they had a stroke. But they can also have a very different genetic male up and have other underlying health issues that others don't.

But I can see you are very against using herbal methods, so I won't bring it up here anymore. Again I am new at all this and figured the more information out there the better. But if it's wrong information and I'm helping spread it than I apologize.

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