Come out to my kids presenting Male or Female?

[Susan R]

Hello community, I have a question and I realize there is no right answer but thought if anyone had ever been in a similar situation, I might be able to get some idea of which way I'll go by asking you all.

A little background...
I have 3 wonderful daughters who are now in their 30's.  They each have 2 children (my grandchildren).  Each is relatively LGBTQ friendly in their own way.  One daughter was in a lesbian relationship for 2 years about 15 years ago but has since married to a man.  Another daughter has always been pro-LGBTQ, had a few LGBTQ friends back in HS but is cis female and has married a man.  The last daughter is cis female but her husband has a sister who is married to a woman.

I am now transitioning and about 6 mos into HRT and am only full time in our home and present female about half the time out in the real world.  My wife is accepting and a great ally.  We attend 2 support groups in our area and have decided last month that we are ready to come out to everyone.  I have come out to my siblings who live in other states (in he US).  I have come out to our pastor and his wife and a few local friends.

We want to come out to our 3 daughters very soon so that I can present female full time 24/7.  Our children have never seen me present as Susan.  They have seen and commented on my changes these last 6 months but due to recent weight loss, they may or may not attribute it to that.  My real hair is long now compared to the previous military cut I once had and I told them I am trying something new.  My face has feminized a bit but requires full makeup to pass in public.  My voice has outed me in a few public settings.  None of this is directly applicable to my question but gives the reader an idea of where I am transition-wise.

I visited with one of my daughters and her family this morning before their week long vacation.  They made a few comments during the visit which leads me to think they know "something" is going on but I did not want to "come out" right before a big vacation and ruin it.  My wife and I think when they get back, it will be the right time.

Given these circumstances, do you think it best that I "come out" to my daughters as myself or the person they have always known?  Alternatively, should I prepare them mentally by sharing pictures of myself presenting as Susan first?  Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Susan R🌷

[HappyMoni]

Susan, however accepting they may seem, you are still their father in their minds. My strong advice is that you explain it to them in that role and allow them to prepare themselves mentally for the change. I see nothing to be gained in the visual shock. I frankly think it would be unfair to them. I have grown boys and I did everything gradually for them in the visual sense and they told me how much they appreciated it. I don't see what is gained and I think it could cause them distress. My opinion. Good luck and tell us how it goes.

Got a PS. Take your clues from them. They may want to see the new you quickly. If not, then you can try to respect their feelings by graduating things.

[CynthiaAnn]

Hi Susan, I think what Moni says above is spot on and I would agree that simply being yourself with very little changes, or as they "last saw you" would be best. When I came out to our daughters, I was presenting pretty much the way I was the day before. I gradually worked the changes in over time. Our daughters were still living at home as teen aged when this happened, you might not see your daughters everyday, I think you said you were "empty nesters" so perhaps gradually work in the changes as you visit each time. Having your wife present through the disclosures would certainly help this process and I'm sure your daughters would want to converse and be reassured by their Mom.

Best wishes, let us know how it goes...

Cynthia -

[Denise]

A agree with all the above.  Knowing and experiencing are two very different things.  Let the knowledge sink in for a bit.  Allow and encourage them to ask questions.

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[KathyLauren]

Moni is a wise lady, and I agree with her advice.

I didn't have an issue with family (2 brothers on the other side of the continent, who got informed via email), but I did consider carefully how to come out to the local community coffe group, consisting of mostly little old ladies.  As per Moni's advice, I decided to make the announcement in male mode.  That was shocking enough for them, and it prepared them for the following week when they met Kathy for the first time.  It worked pretty well.

[Susan R]

Thank you all for the well thought out replies.  My wife has the final say as to when and how I or we "come out".  She agrees with you all and even before I made this post said I should present as their Dad when it happens.

I was concerned they would not believe it and would think the whole thing was a preposterous idea.  After reading your replies, I clearly see that their need to mentally prepare far outweighs my need to help them see me as Susan.  It is important to me to make it as easy for them to accept as possible.  It's going to be so difficult to let go of my Dad relationship that I worked so hard to achieve over the years with each of them.  I know it won't completely disappear but it will definitely change.  I can only hope it will turn out positive.

Thank you,
Susan R🌷

[Gertrude]

I told mine as male first and worked in myself over time and it's a work in progress.


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[Susan R]

I told mine as male first and worked in myself over time and it's a work in progress.


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Thank for the reply Gertrude.  If the moment is right this week after the return, my wife and I will likely tell them together as Mom & Dad.  I'm presenting fairly androgynous right now but I still pass as Dad.  We see this particular daughter and family every couple of weeks as they live over an hour away.  I haven't figured out how to take the next step without some awkwardness ensuing.  Sometimes it seems easier to just let it sink in and then present female all at once. But I'll likely just add a few fem attributes each visit.  One week I'll add a little mascara, then the next time maybe some ladies sneakers and skinny jeans, and so on until they get accustomed to that.😏

[JudiBlueEyes]

I told my son (35 at the time) dressed as he had always seen me.  I was unsure of what his reaction would be.  He was fine and at my house he still calls me dad.  (got to work on that)
All my best!
Judi

[Susan R]

...Good luck and tell us how it goes.

Got a PS. Take your clues from them. They may want to see the new you quickly. If not, then you can try to respect their feelings by graduating things.

...Best wishes, let us know how it goes...

Cynthia -

HappyMoni & CynthiaAnn,  I have an update and it's all very good news.  Here's what happened when my middle daughter and my son-in-law came back from their vacation.

I went to pick them up with my wife.  It was a weekday so the grandkids we babysat for the week were in school until 3:30pm.  My wife and I were excited and able to be as normal as possible on the way home from the airport.  We focused all our discourse on their vacation as much as possible.  When we got home we had decided to only "come out" if they had the afternoon free.  If they could only give us 15 mins before they had something scheduled we were planning to give a brief update about our week with the kids and give our goodbyes.

As it turned out, they were both home for the afternoon and so we had about 2 free hours until the kids had to be picked up from school.  My wife told me she wanted to open with the discussion first without me there so she could tell the story like a love story about her and me (Susan).  So I left for a few and after about 30 mins, texted to to come back.  When I came into the living room, they were all hugs.  I mean long whole-hearted hugs.  They both said they loved me and would stand by me no matter what.  They 100% accept me as Susan and I should never worry about losing their love or respect (apparently, this was in response to specific relational concerns I had discussed with my wife which was then conveyed to them).

We all sat and had one of the most loving and affirming discussions I've ever had.  They are looking forward to meeting me as myself.  We all discussed telling the grand children's soon as my wife and I had told the other two daughters and the other grandkids.  All I can say is that this "coming out" couldn't have gone any better.  We took their entire rest of their afternoon chatting about my life story and how this can be effectively integrated into our family.  We also discussed how the only daughters and family will take the news.  I can only say that it all looks very promising.

One daughter lives in West Olympia so it 3 hours one way from my home up north.  We're planning to go down to visit their family on the 25th and only stay overnight if things go South.  If things go well, we'll spend a few days with them starting on April 25th and maybe even be there to share the news with the grandkids if they so desire.  Then when we get back to our area we will tell the oldest daughter and her family.  That will be that...my entire family will then know "me" as myself before the end of April.  But telling them is not the same as being with them as Susan.

Once the entire knows the truth about who I really am, as mentioned in one of my posts above, I will be slowly adding more and more feminine traits into my presentation until I can just be myself around everyone.  The daughter and family I just "came out" to said this is the best plan to ease the grandkids into the idea of Papa becoming a woman.

So by May 5th, most, if not our entire family will be getting together to celebrate my grandsons birthday.  I plan on being there wearing skinny jeans, ladies sneakers, androgynous top, and just some very light mascara.  I'll probably do something a little feminine with my hair but nothing too girlish.

So that leaves only one very close 77 year old conservative pentecostal Christian neighbor to tell before I go full time.  Why is this going to be harder than telling my kids?  After all, she is a very nice lady but very critical of anything LGBTQ.  I never discuss the topic with her because she is adamant on her beliefs and set in her ways.  I know she will never understand and it will likely be the last discussion I ever have with her.  It is just her way.  We are neighbors so I just want to be friendly to her.  She is extremely nice with that one exception in her personality.  She is generous, kind, and understanding in everything except LGBTQ issues.  I'm going to tell her because I can't let her dictate my life.

Off topic but related question...when I do "come out" to this elderly neighbor, should I just go over to her house to share my journey should I come with some of my home baked cookies presenting Male or Female?  Ok, Ok, maybe I'm be a little silly...lol. Sorry about that!

Susan R🌷

[Jessica]

Susan, I would go over as the person she has always known you as.... with a plate of cookies.
If she is the nice lady you say she is then she will love to chat with you.
I think telling your story to her should include experiences that you may have had with her in the past living next door.  Are there any instances that may help her recognize Susan?

All you can do is be a nice neighbor to her.  If she turns away, it would be sad, but she has her life to live the way she wants to also.

Off topic but related question...when I do "come out" to this elderly neighbor, should I just go over to her house to share my journey should I come with some of my home baked cookies presenting Male or Female?  Ok, Ok, maybe I'm be a little silly...lol. Sorry about that!

Hugs

[jkredman]

Susan:

I wish I could add to the very good advice from Moni, KathyLauren, and others. But I can't.  I can only say I'm in the exact same boat as you.

We also have 3 daughters, 3 sons-in-law and 8 grandchildren.  I saw my endo a couple of weeks ago.  I've been on HRT since early December and responding very well.  Out of that she's saying the time has come to 'come out' to my children and grandchildren. 

I'm starting to work through it with my transition coach (councilor / therapist) but here is where I am at the moment.

I realize I will always be 'dad' to our daughters irrespective of how I present.

I realize I will always be 'grandpa Keith' to our granddaughters.

I have no clue how our 3 son-in-laws will respond and I have no clue how our grandsons will respond.

Moni has started a very good thread on how we explain ourselves. To oversimplify, it's a hormone issue.

I don't know what I will ultimately say.  I don't know where the conversation will finally end.  Just know your not alone.  I'm there, in my own way, with you.

Kate


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[KathyLauren]

Susan, I am so happy for you that your coming out to your middle daughter and son-in-law went so well.  I love reading about happy stories like this, and I have happy tears in my eyes right now.  You and your wife obviously handled it just right!

I wish you the same success with your other children.

So that leaves only one very close 77 year old conservative pentecostal Christian neighbor to tell before I go full time.  Why is this going to be harder than telling my kids?  After all, she is a very nice lady but very critical of anything LGBTQ.  I never discuss the topic with her because she is adamant on her beliefs and set in her ways.  I know she will never understand and it will likely be the last discussion I ever have with her.  It is just her way.  We are neighbors so I just want to be friendly to her.  She is extremely nice with that one exception in her personality.  She is generous, kind, and understanding in everything except LGBTQ issues.  I'm going to tell her because I can't let her dictate my life.

Off topic but related question...when I do "come out" to this elderly neighbor, should I just go over to her house to share my journey should I come with some of my home baked cookies presenting Male or Female?

Sometimes it is easier for someone to be anti-LGBT+ in theory than it is in person.  As long as they don't know one of us, they can see us as evil.  When one of us is a neighbour that they like, everything can change. 

I found this with the local Baptist pastor, who is chaplain at the fire department.  For a while after I came out, he wouldn't speak more than a grunt to me and looked at me like I was breathing fire and brimstone and waving a pitchfork.  After I forced him into conversation (Instead of saying "Hi", I said "Whatcha been up to this week?"  Bwah-ha-ha!) he started to realize that I was still just a regular firefighter.

Go visit your neighbour as your old self, with the plate of cookies.  Delivering the news verbally rather than visually is less of a shock.

[CynthiaAnn]

Good morning Susan, nice to read your update !! My congratulations on coming out to middle daughter and family, that was a very uplifting story to read. Now that one daughter knows, is she inclined to pick up the phone and call her sisters, as this info has a way of "leaking" ? or did you receive assurances you and your wife get to tell first ?

As far as your "conservative" neighbor, be nice and forthcoming and may actually turn out to be an opportunity to "influence" her ? Keep it open and friendly, I like the ideas of cookies, you open the door and see if she steps through

Best

Cynthia -

[Susan R]

Thank you ladies for your kind words and encouragement.  I really appreciate you all taking time to respond.  I'm at a good place but the heavy emotions really takes its toll on my energy levels.  It seems like it takes me a few days to recover afterwards...or maybe I'm just getting old...lol😲

Are there any instances that may help her [your neighbor] recognize Susan?

Not really, Jessica.  I'm an expert at camouflaging my femininity.  Although, it has been more difficult with my hair growing long, weight loss, facial feminization from HRT,  I'm pretty sure she still see's me as my male self.  It will be a great shock either way.

Susan:

I wish I could add to the very good advice from Moni, KathyLauren, and others. But I can't.  I can only say I'm in the exact same boat as you...

I don't know what I will ultimately say.  I don't know where the conversation will finally end.  Just know your not alone.  I'm there, in my own way, with you.

Kate

Thank you, Kate.  It is somehow comforting knowing that.  It's akin to me thinking at the age of 11 that I was the ONLY person in the world that crossdressed...that I had an urge that no one else had and was too embarrassed to seek help because of the shame.  Then one day, I found out that there were many others in the world who did the same thing.  Nothing changed in my situation but that realization that other people in the world shared my same struggles also gave me a moment of comfort that I wasn't alone.

I wish you the same success with your other children.

Go visit your neighbour as your old self, with the plate of cookies.  Delivering the news verbally rather than visually is less of a shock.

Thank you, KathyLauren...I hope it will be as uplifting.  And as far as the neighbor situation...I will definitely come out to her in my male persona.

Now that one daughter knows, is she inclined to pick up the phone and call her sisters, as this info has a way of "leaking" ? or did you receive assurances you and your wife get to tell first ?

Best

Cynthia -

Thanks Cynthia, I told my middle daughter first because she is someone we can trust to keep it to herself.  Also, I am very close to that son-in-law and I wanted to come out to the most difficult family first.  I had the most to lose if they had rejected me.  Now that They know, I have a more optimistic view about how the other families will go.  I just hope I'm right.

The last two daughters can't keep things secret as well.  My wife and I knew if we told either of them first, the others would know before we returned to our car.  Because we have to travel 3 hours back North to tell the last daughter, we know there may be a chance the cat will already be out of the bag.  Well, there's not much I can do about it so I'm not going to worry myself.

Susan R🌷

[DawnOday]

Hi Susan
Coming out to my kids was  my most difficult revelation. My kids too are in their thirties. I just sat them down about a month after starting HRT. I explained the battle that has gone on in my head for as long as I can remember. I explained the therapy sessions I have been attending since the 80's. I explained how it affected my first marriage. I explained that the thoughts have always been there. Then after finding out about DES poisoning, they didn't have any doubt. I explained that they were miracles in that I am not well endowed and they must have been rim shots but I was so thankful they were the result. I forgot that I was the one who raised these kids. That I instilled in them tolerance, morality and avoiding the pitfalls I have encountered in my life like drugs and alcohol. How I decided they were my "Higher Power" early in their life and were considered in every decision Joann and I have made as a family. We have always had an open table where everyone is allowed to speak their minds.

I should not have worried. They told me. "You have always been our Dad" You will always be our Dad" "You have to do what is best for you". Now I am two years eight months into HRT. It has not been a subject too often. Just they know me as Dad and don't really want to see me as Mom. But they give me two thumbs up in my quest to find my place. After this was done, notifying everyone else about my transition was so much easier. The weight lifted from my shoulders was enormous and resulted in declaring, I no longer suffered from depression.

I hope your kids are as mindful that we are all complex individuals a puzzle that not every piece has a place but you are willing to take those pieces that didn't fit and adapt them to fulfill that puzzle.



  Best of luck to you.

Monica...Once again your level headed advice is, right on.  I have learned so much from you.

[Susan R]

Hi Susan
Coming out to my kids was my most difficult revelation...

...The weight lifted from my shoulders was enormous and resulted in declaring, I no longer suffered from depression.

I hope your kids are as mindful that we are all complex individuals a puzzle that not every piece has a place but you are willing to take those pieces that didn't fit and adapt them to fulfill that puzzle.

  Best of luck to you.

Hello DawnOday,  This too has been the case for me.  After sharing this part of my life with my wife, I became a changed person in our relationship and it seemed a huge burden had been lifted.  I was not quick to anger and was more forgiving.  A similar thing has happened after the pressure of telling one of my daughters & son-in-laws  I knew this was going to be the most difficult but with the highest pay back if it succeeded.  Since last Monday, I have been feeling more free in my attitude of sharing myself and actuallly can't wait to let the other 2 daughters and their families know on the 25th.  I do think both will be as understanding and will accept me as this first one did.

Susan R🌷

[HappyMoni]

   I feel bad that I didn't see this sooner. I am so happy for you Susan! I know you haven't completely exhaled, but this is a wonderful start to telling your kids. It's also good because this daughter and hubby can give positive feedback to the others.You have allies who have influence with your other daughters. Wow I love good news like this.

   Your neighbor is going to be hit with a contradiction to her prejudice. If she likes you a lot, this will test how deep seated her views are. I have family who look down on LGBTplus but are okay with me because I am family. Not the best terms for being respected, but I'll take it. All you can do, Susan, is present your story the best you can. You can't control her response. If she rejects you, it's her loss. (If she is not okay, ask her if you should have brought a cake instead. Prejudice is so dumb, a dumb comment like that seems appropriate.)

Monica...Once again your level headed advice is, right on.  I have learned so much from you.

All I can say if this is true, Dawn, is you in a heap of trouble.

[Susan R]

   I feel bad that I didn't see this sooner. I am so happy for you Susan!......Wow I love good news like this.

   Your neighbor is going to be hit with a contradiction to her prejudice.....All you can do, Susan, is present your story the best you can. You can't control her response. If she rejects you, it's her loss....

I appreciate your comment HappyMoni!  I like good news too and I've been on cloud nine since this all happened.

On the other topic...My wife was in a discussion with my neighbor lady friend just yesterday.  They were discussing "sin" and during the conversation my wife said at one point, "but we all have struggles and we can always show compassion and empathy for people."  My neighbor responded, "Not for someone who is living in sin!"  Who in this world isn't to some degree.  Our neighbor's comment shows again that she is lacking both those components with a cup of shortsightedness.  What is so odd is that she, in all other ways, comes across as the nicest person.  She is really is a complete contradiction.  We are rethinking our entire relationship with her.  How can she be a true friend without these?  They are both critical characteristics of ANY good friendship.

Susan R🌷

[KatieP]

I appreciate your comment HappyMoni!  I like good news too and I've been on cloud nine since this all happened.

On the other topic...My wife was in a discussion with my neighbor lady friend just yesterday.  They were discussing "sin" and during the conversation my wife said at one point, "but we all have struggles and we can always show compassion and empathy for people."  My neighbor responded, "Not for someone who is living in sin!"  Who in this world isn't to some degree.  Our neighbor's comment shows again that she is lacking both those components with a cup of shortsightedness.  What is so odd is that she, in all other ways, comes across as the nicest person.  She is really is a complete contradiction.  We are rethinking our entire relationship with her.  How can she be a true friend without these?  They are both critical characteristics of ANY good friendship.

Susan R

I am amazed how many of us are in exactly the same situation. (Kids. Often in their 30s, and the stress of telling them.) I suppose I shouldn't be surprised though, since our ages probably have a lot to do with the overall timing.

And, I too, am in exactly this situation. For reasons, I intend to tell my kids in May, one at a time, by myself, as the old way they have seen me. (That said, over the years, they have noticed the women's clothes, the pierced ears, the occasional long, acrylic fingernails, etc)

As for your neighbor, you mention re-thinking your whole relationship with her. You get to do what you think best. And, my opinion is that responding to hate and rejection with rejection is not a wining strategy for either side. I think the best approach to hate and rejection is always being pleasant and considerate. I know some people are unable to do this, but even when friends call me, "man" of "bro" or use the deadname, I don't respond negatively. Mostly, I don't respond at all. For me, I would rather keep some part of the relationship, especially with those I have known for a very long time, than to be "right."

But that's just me... 

Kate
PS. Thank you for the thread!! The timing, and Moni's wisdom could not have come at a better time for me!!