I'm not special

[Haley Conner]

I am intersex, so I have the ability to point out physical manifestations and say " Look, this is my nature. ", and get an automatic free pass.   It doesn't necessarily feel that way, but anyway, I think there can be elitism among intersex people because of that, like we think we're more valid or something.  I am not talking about this forum.  I haven't seen any of that here.  I just wanted to say, I don't feel that way.  As far as I can tell, I am no different from anyone else here.  Who a person is, and how they feel don't require physical evidence in order to be valid.  We're all the same for the most part.  I am fairly certain of that.  Whether or not it involves some visible manifestation is irrelevant to me.  My existence does not diminish anyone else's validity.  The very opposite is true, imo.  I guess what I am saying, is, I am not a "gender snob".  I don't consider myself to be any more valid than anyone else.  If I ever come off that way, somebody please slap me. 

[HappyMoni]

Thanks Haley, I'll keep my slapper 'handy' in case you get out of line. I do think some trans folk get jealous of intersexed people some times. Some folks have their guilt relieved if there is something to point to to say that "Hey, its not my fault." I used to dream of getting in an accident that only damaged my male appendage. Surely then no one would blame me if I transitioned. Society puts so much pressure on, I kind of see why people want something to point to to say it isn't their fault. I doubt intersex people feel that 'privileged.' No one is better than anyone else, well, unless we are talking mean people.
   

[Haley Conner]

That kind of relates to something I was saying in the entertainment section, about how in Hollywood movies that involve gender reversal, there is always some twist of fate beyond their control compelling the character.

[Linde]

Thanks Haley, I'll keep my slapper 'handy' in case you get out of line. I do think some trans folk get jealous of intersexed people some times. Some folks have their guilt relieved if there is something to point to to say that "Hey, its not my fault." I used to dream of getting in an accident that only damaged my male appendage. Surely then no one would blame me if I transitioned. Society puts so much pressure on, I kind of see why people want something to point to to say it isn't their fault. I doubt intersex people feel that 'privileged.' No one is better than anyone else, well, unless we are talking mean people.

Most of the time I am jealous of you "straight" trans people,  You have a clear idea about yourself, I am just waffling around some times and don't really know what I am!  At that point I have to kick myself into my rear end and remind myself that I am a woman!
Yes, it was a little easier to convince my body to be a woman (it actually was that way all the time),  but I needed to get pretty old to realize what was going on with me!  Nothing to be jealous about!

[Haley Conner]

I didn't really have any concept of intersexuality until late in life, so I can relate as far as doubts, guilt etc.  Learning about the circumstances of my birth didn't really change that much.  It was somewhat validating though.  It doesn't change the fact that most people have no concept of these things, so it's kind of irrelevant where they are concerned.  Most people don't even differentiate between sex and gender, imo.

[Linde]

  It doesn't change the fact that most people have no concept of these things, so it's kind of irrelevant where they are concerned.  Most people don't even differentiate between sex and gender, imo.

I found that friendly thinking people are fascinated when they hear what a funny biological construct my body is.

It is hard for natal/cis people to think and comprehend that one can be partially male and partially female.  But I have to admit that my own body is the largest medical experiment I ever had to deal with, and I am still discovering details about this experiment that make me wonder what will come out next?

I am currently participating in a study, if there re more simpler and cheaper methods available to discover is a person is intersex or not ( I am currently the sole test object for this study)

[F_P_M]

i kinda like that my body isn't totally conventional lol.

I'm not intersex, least.. not that i'm aware of, but things still didn't develop quite uh.. right.
I have a remnant of the wolfian duct system as well as a functional mullurian duct system which means the hormone that's supposed to kick in and surpress one didn't kick in ENOUGH. (least this is how the specialist described it, as a congenital abnormality resulting in the other duct system not entirely dissolving)
I also have a dip in my uterus which is similarly caused by that hormone not kicking in enough.

Interestingly my sister has a septated uterus suggesting our mother just flat out didn't produce enough quantities of this hormone to make our bodies develop entirely correctly (or rather, finish developing)

Also because my body is rather androgen dominant things are a bit uh.. unusual.

It's genuinely never really bothered me. I mean I grew up being told excess testosterone was fine and good because it gave you a higher sex drive and I suppose as a teenager it gave me an excuse for my less that stereotypical feminine appearance and behaviours.

I find hormones and foetal development really interesting (can you tell? lol) because I have had to undergo SO MANY tests and procedures all my life because of my hormonal disorder (is it pcos? is it hypogonadism? is it something else? nobody knooooows) and that coupled with fertility treatment (don't recommend, it's horrible) means i've learned a lot about my biology that I never knew, a lot about what "typical" biology is supposed to look like (hahah not like mine that's for sure) and a lot of stuff sex ed just flat out never taught us.
and gosh it's interesting. I suppose it also gave me a sense of ownership over a body i've always felt a little disconnected from.

I know that I was "unusual enough" that my reproductive specialist actually ran a chromosome test (it came back XX but that's all I was ever told) but she must have had a good reason to as the NHS doesn't tend to run random tests unless they suspect something.
She was always a bit odd that doctor though and always a bit cagey about explaining WHY. *sigh*
Maybe she didn't want to freak me out? Not that it would, i'm sort of just used to not being conventional lol.

If anything my non feminine traits have been a source of pride for me. Maybe because they line up better with my brain's gender identity?

I LIKE having excess testosterone.

It's frustrating that people don't differentiate gender and sex, it's pretty dumb really. Our biology just kinda.. IS... it doesn't define us.

[Linde]

@ F_P_M
What you describe could hint toward some milder kind of intersex syndromes!  Something like a mild kind of Androgen Insensitive Syndrome perhaps?
Who knows, you never will know it until you get detailed testing done.  I don't ow if it is of any importance to you to know, only you can decide this.  I lived way more than half of my life not knowing why I was so different than my male peers, now I know, because why would a mostly female body look like that of a guy anyway?

XX alone does not mean that you are a female only, you can have many other chromosomal mutations that make you to be intersex!  Your desire to become a guy might be fueled by those, who knows?
Good Luck with your transition!
Linde

[F_P_M]

Honestly Deitland, there's a part of me who'd love that because it would give me, dare I say it, an "excuse", a reason transphobes couldn't dispute so readily.

I've had a lot of conflicting suggestions about what's "wrong" with me. At one point they said it was PCOS but I don't present as typical because my hormone levels are all really low, I just have a lot of free testosterone and very little of any other sort and while my fsh and lh numbers are reversed 3/1 like they are in pcos, they aren't high like pcos numbers usually are, they're in fact so low half the time it doesn't even appear my ovaries even WORK.

Then the endochronologist told me it was Hypogonadism (basically ovaries don't work)

but then I had several children so... what?

clearly they DO work sometimes.

My left ovary hides and is a lot smaller than my swollen and scarred up right. To be honest i'm not even sure leftie is functional. They've never really looked that hard. It took the last technician a very long time to find it though, for a while she was wondering if I even HAD a second one. Apparently it was hiding behind something else and is smaller than it should be and by the sounds, not actually in the correct place. Hmmm.

I really do need to get a hold of my records and all the scans.

I'm certain there's something wrong, whether that's a mismatch between my pituitary gland, adrenal glands and ovaries or some genetic defect or what I don't know, but my body doesn't work well. It's very very bad at being female.
Maybe not intersex but certainly some sort of hormonal disorder.

[Linde]

Honestly Deitland, there's a part of me who'd love that because it would give me, dare I say it, an "excuse", a reason transphobes couldn't dispute so readily.

I've had a lot of conflicting suggestions about what's "wrong" with me. At one point they said it was PCOS but I don't present as typical because my hormone levels are all really low, I just have a lot of free testosterone and very little of any other sort and while my fsh and lh numbers are reversed 3/1 like they are in pcos, they aren't high like pcos numbers usually are, they're in fact so low half the time it doesn't even appear my ovaries even WORK.

Then the endochronologist told me it was Hypogonadism (basically ovaries don't work)

but then I had several children so... what?

clearly they DO work sometimes.

My left ovary hides and is a lot smaller than my swollen and scarred up right. To be honest i'm not even sure leftie is functional. They've never really looked that hard. It took the last technician a very long time to find it though, for a while she was wondering if I even HAD a second one. Apparently it was hiding behind something else and is smaller than it should be and by the sounds, not actually in the correct place. Hmmm.

I really do need to get a hold of my records and all the scans.

I'm certain there's something wrong, whether that's a mismatch between my pituitary gland, adrenal glands and ovaries or some genetic defect or what I don't know, but my body doesn't work well. It's very very bad at being female.
Maybe not intersex but certainly some sort of hormonal disorder.

That really sound like it.  But intersex can manifest itself in some funny ways.  I had  one functioning testicles, and have something resembling a real crippled up ovary.  When i told my endo that I was able to father a child, he said that this was almost impossible.  Well, somehow I seemed to have made it possible.  It took many years to get to it, but heck, who is counting?
To be sure what is going on with you, you need to be turned upside down and inside out.  The best is if it can be done at an outfit like the Mayo Clinic, in which all the different medical disciplines work hand in hand together.  They did my genome analysis and found that I was  a post menopausal women while still presenting as a man, and while I still believed that I was a man!  But my gene makeup told a different story!
There are a lot of funny things happening to us intersex people, of which we never thought they would be possible.

Again, you could be one of our clan, or you just could be a pretty screwed up XX person.  You never will know until proper testing has been done with you!

[GingerVicki]

I personally do not feel that being intersex really changes anything. I still have to take Sprio and E like the other girls so...

Society views me the same as the other transgender girls so between the two, there are no advantages for me.

[Linde]

I personally do not feel that being intersex really changes anything. I still have to take Sprio and E like the other girls so...

Society views me the same as the other transgender girls so between the two, there are no advantages for me.

I don't know what kind of intersex you are, but becoming a woman was made easier for me because of my condition.  However, trying to be a man was way harder for me, again, because of my condition!

Otherwise, because I had some functioning stuff between my legs that was producing testosterone, spiro was required.  I seem to be able to do well with a lower dose of E than many here.  I don't know if that is because of my intersex, or in spite of it?

[GingerVicki]

I don't know what kind of intersex you are, but becoming a woman was made easier for me because of my condition.  However, trying to be a man was way harder for me, again, because of my condition!

Otherwise, because I had some functioning stuff between my legs that was producing testosterone, spiro was required.  I seem to be able to do well with a lower dose of E than many here.  I don't know if that is because of my intersex, or in spite of it?

I believe it is too soon for me to be able to say if it is easier or not. I do know that my butt, hips, and breasts are growing like crazy are very obvious. I will say that I am noticing many changes with an E reading of 85, US measurement.

I do not know if there is a standard benchmark for growth other than people have most of their changes within the first two years. I will just take whatever I can get.

[Linde]

I believe it is too soon for me to be able to say if it is easier or not. I do know that my butt, hips, and breasts are growing like crazy are very obvious. I will say that I am noticing many changes with an E reading of 85, US measurement.

I do not know if there is a standard benchmark for growth other than people have most of their changes within the first two years. I will just take whatever I can get.

For me it was easier, because I have no body hair, no Adams Apple, no hair loss, and already breast growth with a mostly feminine type body.

[F_P_M]

Heh sounds a bit like the opposite of me. I already HAVE the body hair and masculine fat distribution (my beer belly is pretty spectacular)

I'm so happy you figured stuff out and managed to get the right fuel into your body. I have to wonder if i'd do better on T and it's an idea I can't quite shake till i try it.
Maybe it won't make a difference, or maybe it'll suddenly cause everything to click into place but unless I give it a go i'll always wonder.

[Linde]

Heh sounds a bit like the opposite of me. I already HAVE the body hair and masculine fat distribution (my beer belly is pretty spectacular)

I'm so happy you figured stuff out and managed to get the right fuel into your body. I have to wonder if i'd do better on T and it's an idea I can't quite shake till i try it.
Maybe it won't make a difference, or maybe it'll suddenly cause everything to click into place but unless I give it a go i'll always wonder.

Yes, we might be on the opposite end of the gender spectrum!  If you are hairy already, and sport a typical male beer belly, you might be high on T already.  You should get your E and T levels testet, it is a simple blood test, you should ask your doc for it!

You may be the guy I never was!

[F_P_M]

I have comparatively high free t apparently.
But when I go in for my smear (eugh) i'll ask the nurse for my last tests which were done not that long ago. (like a year maybe?) to confirm the numbers.

I'm curious.

I've had a LOT of full hormone profiles over the years.

Oh man, if only we could swap a few bits right?

[Linde]

I have comparatively high free t apparently.
But when I go in for my smear (eugh) i'll ask the nurse for my last tests which were done not that long ago. (like a year maybe?) to confirm the numbers.

I'm curious.

I've had a LOT of full hormone profiles over the years.

Oh man, if only we could swap a few bits right?

I would take yours  with excitement, I don't know if you would be happy with mine, because there is not much left!

I am almost sure that your hormones are pretty much screwed up (for a female that is)!  I don't know how estrogen can be blocked, we are talking about testosterone blockers around here mostly (that terrible spiro stuff).  But I bet your endo would know some estrogen blockers, and add a nice dose of T and you would be running around pounding your chest like Tarzan!  We just would have to find a spare prostate for you (I could give you mine, I have no use for it anymore).
I wish you lots of good luck that you find out what is going on with you!

[F_P_M]

hahah just someone take these bits away!

I mean I don't think anyone wants these ovaries though, they're really damaged. Free to a good home? lol.