How the western world has changed for us for the worse

[Tills]

Hi everyone,

I'll keep this brief but just wanted to open up a thread where people can feel they can share their experiences.

As a woman who began transitioning ten years ago (but knew from the get-go I was female) I have watched with despair at the way "Trans" issues have become central in 'anti-woke' culture wars.

Much of the progress we were making now seems to have been rolled back, and in Britain we have numerous examples of our new Government backtracking on their previous support for transgendered people.

So I'm acknowledging this because I, for one, have despaired about the recent trajectory. To the point where I may move out to SE Asia to live.

In my opinion the biggest mistake we have made was to allow the anti-trans people to claim a difference between 'biological sex' and 'gender'. We have allowed them to reduce the complexities of this subject almost literally, to whether or not someone is born with a penis. We have to fight back, demonstrating that even 'biological sex' is far more nuanced than simplistic genital reductionism.

I hope this thread will be left in place as I know one or two mods find politics a hot potato. This is intended to enable those who wish to do so to share their experiences and reflections on what has happened and how we can move forward.

We must fight back! For us AND for future generations.

xx

[Lori Dee]

I too have been very concerned with the current trajectory.

First, because they are attacking us through transgender healthcare. They start by specifically calling minors "children" because they want the general public to believe that "children" are being mutilated, which is far from the truth. And no one would want that. Continuing to refer to transgender women as "men" to prevent them from participating in women's sports. Yet everyone seems to be okay with transgender men competing in men's sports.

None of their arguments hold water if they were to admit that biological sex and gender are different and exist on a non-binary spectrum. So the obvious attack there is to define everything in binary terms that the average person can understand. They know that most of the general public does not care because they have jobs, and mortgages, and families to raise. By making these things hot-button issues, the media jumps in and helps them spread their propaganda and suddenly Average Joe now cares who is in the locker room with his daughter. It was never an issue before, why now?

Many of the anti-LGBTQ laws being passed in the various states are being struck down. We have seen this happen before... every election year. Politicians begin posturing to drum up support $$$ and votes. To prove that they are serious about their so-called promises, they propose laws, file lawsuits, and take action that draws media attention which wakes up Average Joe and the country becomes polarized.

After the election, laws get struck down as unconstitutional, and the politicians have nothing further to gain, so they withdraw back into the woodwork. Until it is time for re-election and it all starts again.

The only thing we can do is to support those who are looking after our rights and educate Average Joe on what the truth is. He doesn't really care because he doesn't personally know anyone who is transgender. As we meet people and they get to know us, they begin to realize that we are just normal people and not a bunch of mentally ill pedophiles the way they have been told. They seem to forget that politicians have been lying to them since the invention of politics.

Why would they start being truthful now?

[SoupSarah]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I respectfully disagree with the premise that things have worsened; in fact, I believe there has been significant improvement. While challenges persist, when you compare now to the 80s and 90s, the situation has markedly progressed.

My perspective spans both the UK and the USA. In the UK, the previous conservative government's trajectory was concerning, but recent elections have moderated these extreme viewpoints. The defeat of such factions suggests that public sentiment rejects ostracization and extremism. Similarly, in the USA, while headline-grabbing legislation is proposed, many do not progress far, such as controversial bathroom policies.

Conversely, the 'woke' movement, while well-intentioned, can also pose challenges. Issues like women's sports and puberty blockers for minors require nuanced, scientific discussion rather than ideological fervour. Proper research on these topics is crucial for ethical decision-making.

Education is key. Many misunderstandings persist, such as confusing drag artists with trans individuals. Misrepresented issues, like controversies over drag artists reading to children, further cloud public understanding. What's needed are informed discussions, not polarized debates, to foster understanding and respect.

In summary, moderation, education, and respectful dialogue are essential. Progress has been made despite past prejudices. By continuing to educate and engage in reasoned debate, we can navigate these complex issues with empathy and intelligence.

[Sephirah]

I agree to a large extent with Sarah. It's about education. This is really the only way to grow as a species. Sadly, I fear a lot of people prefer to remain ignorant. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, as it were. It's hard to learn algebra if you reject the idea of mathematics. I can only hope that there is enough of a groundswell that it's hard to ignore. Maybe then things will pick up speed.

But my big fear is that trans issues, like immigration issues... get used as a weapon in a political arsenal, rather than any sort of framework for people to live their lives. It's a bullet in a gun, rather than a legitimate topic of discussion. Because politics doesn't often seem to hold any sort of empathy towards what people are going through. It's more like the Roman Colosseum games. It's a way to distract people. Throw in hot topics here and there to drive fervour one way or the other.  The general public are very easily manipulated.

[Mariah]

I agree with Sarah. I would digress to an extent in USA as well. Everything has its ebbs and flows here. As much as we hear a lot about some laws past here, that doesn't necessarily speak of majority here. Tons of laws and regulations get proposed as laws, but minority of them actually become law.

I still firmly like to believe and think most people want what is right. Change is something that is always occurring, but most of that change isn't necessarily against lgbtqa+ Americans. Hugs

Mariah

[Mariah]

Totally agree. Hugs
Mariah

I agree to a large extent with Sarah. It's about education. This is really the only way to grow as a species. Sadly, I fear a lot of people prefer to remain ignorant. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, as it were. It's hard to learn algebra if you reject the idea of mathematics. I can only hope that there is enough of a groundswell that it's hard to ignore. Maybe then things will pick up speed.

But my big fear is that trans issues, like immigration issues... get used as a weapon in a political arsenal, rather than any sort of framework for people to live their lives. It's a bullet in a gun, rather than a legitimate topic of discussion. Because politics doesn't often seem to hold any sort of empathy towards what people are going through. It's more like the Roman Colosseum games. It's a way to distract people. Throw in hot topics here and there to drive fervour one way or the other.  The general public are very easily manipulated.

[Tills]

I agree with all the comments above, except the one that things have got better. In my experience it has massively deteriorated these past 5 years. If you turn back the clock, we were never the centre of culture wars like now. Some politicians, literally, make this their key issue. Which is part of social scapegoating. I'm not only talking about the Right wing. Former PM Tony Blair pitched into the debate in a typically unhelpful manner, and it looks to me as if the new Government are going to throttle back from all that they promised even a year ago.

The biggest concern is that from rhetoric comes regression in laws. So, speaking for the UK we are seeing bans on trans sportswomen (which is a complex topic), the increasingly lazy use of 'minors' and even 'mutilation' for transcare of those under-18 as LoriDee says, the watering down of amendments to Gender Recognition changes, the affirmation that single sex women-only spaces should be preserved not just in the NHS (where it is not policy contrary to what the new Health Minister says, but also elsewhere like loos and changing rooms, and even the dog-whistle slogans that 'trans women are not women' and 'women cannot have a penis'. The new Health Secretary reportedly now regrets saying that trans women are women.

I went into hiding for 2 years under the last Government. I shut out the News entirely to try and live in my own bubble but that was very unhealthy. My fear is that I am about to be bitterly disappointed by the new one    This actually isn't a party political post as I voted for them. Just an honest assessment of how depressing I see the state of things.

xx

[Tills]

Maybe the real issue is that whereas, say, a decade ago trans issues were peripheral they're now increasingly central to culture wars. The spotlight has turned on us.

And I don't like that. I want to get on and live my life without the fuss. Until lately no one batted an eyelid at me using the ladies loos, for example, and I could just be me out and about. Things now feel very different. Sure, I could turn off the News again but it still doesn't alter the fact that we have become the focal point of hate.

It's all so very different from Thailand. I'm not naive about it there but it's a country I know very well. In the Thai areas you can live your life how you like and, providing you cause no one harm, no one minds. On Bangkok's metro system you will see every shade of gender expression and no one bats an eyelid. It's so much less hostile.

Anyway, I wanted to get this off my chest so forgive me if I've annoyed anyone or over-stepped the mark on any point. I'm depressed about living in my own country now, that's all.

xx

[Allie Jayne]

Tills, I despair for my community in the US and UK, and some Eastern European countries where the tide has most certainly been against us. But I can't say this has been reflected in all western countries. Australia has a robust Anti Discrimination law which holds Gender Identity as a protected asset. The conservative opposition tried to roll this back at our 2022 election, but members of their own party crossed the floor and voted in support of the Trans community as they knew the general public sentiment is supportive of the trans community. I know Canada and New Zealand are also currently supportive, though Canada will face an election soon which may change this somewhat.

Tough world economic climates on the back of the GFC and Covid has swung the voters to conservative parties who struggle to present policies to improve economics, so they are capitalising on confusion about trans people to garner support. This is based around confusion and misinformation. There are so many interpretations of Gender, even among the medical community and in texts, it is no wonder the general population don't understand. Many trans people don't understand!

I believe we need to clarify our existence by redefining the terms applicable to us, and then educating the broader community, as proper understandings will encourage acceptance, and then support. Conservatives base their oppression of the trans community around legitimacy, and I believe if we can clarify our existence, it will take the wind out of their sails, and increase broader community acceptance.

Hugs,

Allie

[Maid Marion]

There was time when there were nasty laws against the Chinese on the books.  Fortunately, as far as I can tell, folks had empathy and looked the other way when it came to enforcing the laws.  One of my ancestors was fined $500 for bigamy in 1900 but he was wealthy enough to just pay the fine!  My mom had a great deal of difficulty accepting how that was the world worked.

In my Connecticut community I'm a highly visible non-binary.  I have no doubt that if I chose to, I could pass as female though I'm not so sure about the blending in part.  There aren't as many pretty women guys can look at in person these days. Some, but not as many as I remember.

[Sephirah]

Anyway, I wanted to get this off my chest so forgive me if I've annoyed anyone or over-stepped the mark on any point. I'm depressed about living in my own country now, that's all.

You haven't, sweetie. As a fellow Brit I feel what you're going through. And we need places to get it out, to be able to vent. Otherwise it would drive you crazy. We are subject to the currents of the oceans of public pandering and misinformation these days. It's very hard to be a rogue wave.

What I will say is that things change in politics. Sometimes alarmingly quicky. Because those in power often only care about what they feel will make them popular. When they feel the wind blowing against trans people, they unfurl the sails and ride three sheets to the wind. But those winds can change extremely quickly.

All I can say to you honey, and it's something that's helped me deal with this for the most part... is... in a garden of weeds and thorns, focus on growing your own roses, and seeing the beauty therein.

*massive hugs*

[Tills]

I want to say a big thank you to everyone. It would be wrong to single out individuals: you have all lifted my spirits enormously even those who challenged my fairly depressed mood! Allie, I'd love to pursue more your really interesting ideas but maybe on a different thread?

I also do just want to pick this one phrase from Sephira (thank you) which is going to become my new mantra:

In a garden of weeds and thorns, focus on growing your own roses, and seeing the beauty therein

I'm currently staying at a friend's and she has a lovely rose garden but, alas, hasn't had the time to do weeding this year. So it's overrun at ground level. But above that the blooms are beautiful and fragrant and uplifting. Your metaphor has a visual and olfactory imprint for me. Beautiful.

xx

[Allie Jayne]

Allie, I'd love to pursue more your really interesting ideas but maybe on a different thread?

xx

Tills, having been trying to figure this all out since 1958 I have developed my own understandings, but, alas, many find them disturbing and some react badly to them. While I am happy to share my understandings, they are quite clinical and not popular.

Hugs,

Allie

[Tills]

I want to share a piece by India Willoughby which feels important.

Although she may have slightly exaggerated in places (or maybe not?!) this echoes my own feelings at the moment.

I don't like her claim that we are finished, even if I understand why she feels so bleakly. Although I'm depressed about the current trajectory, it makes me want to fight for our rights and, most importantly, for those not yet born into the wrong bodies.

https://www.attitude.co.uk/life/india-willoughby-speaks-out-on-trans-rights-under-labour-469907/