Trying to be feminine vs. being yourself

[Asche]

As for "trying to be feminine" which is the topic here, even cis-women do it. They wear makeup and buy frilly clothes, nice jewelry, and accessories, including lingerie. They wear their hair in feminine styles and speak with a feminine voice.

There are all kinds of women.  Some do the "being feminine" more, some less, and some pretty much not at all.  Some would be embarassed to be seen in public without their "face" on, but others (e.g., my ex) don't use makeup at all.  The women I spend much time with don't do all that much, except maybe for a special occasion.  (Some of the women at contra dances dress up, especially since skirts are fun when you dance -- but not everyone.)

My own "trying to be feminine" extends to earrings, dresses or skirts, and a wig (to hide my male-pattern baldness.)  These are things I like and which I like seeing in the mirror.  I'm okay with the idea of makeup and nail polish, but don't do them because they're too much hassle.  But most of the stuff they talk about I don't like or can't be bothered with.

[Sephirah]

I am not sure who the Sarah is you are targeting with this is, either me or Ms B (or both?)..  But I am curious to know what 'black and white' statements you are referring too.. 'cause in my ignorance on having read through all the post's here, I can't seem to locate any that are not in the context of what "someone believes to be correct".

Obviously the 'Ughs' line was directed at me.. and my 'Ouch'.. but empathy is fine for playing nice and being friends.. Sometimes things people write on here strike my emotions and illicit a guttural response.  Ouch, was indeed what I thought when I was being told that 'passing' was not about being accepted but if someone recognised their birth gender.. I find that thought abhorrent. Please let me explain why I think this way as I believe it is for the betterment of the community as a whole..

When I first came to this forum and others resources like it.. page after page of people were talking about 'how to pass'. I was given the advice to 'sit in a cafe and observe how women sit and hold their cups'... This set me on a path that most people who are dealing with trans issues start on.. 'passing' - it should be a dirty word in our world. It denotes gate keeping, testing and goals that need to be reached to be considered 'passable'. It is a lie! passing is a lie. just like the cake..  By promoting passing you are burdening a whole new population of people who come to these places looking for help.. you are effectively telling them they are not good enough yet, but if they do this, use this, wear that, have that done... then , maybe, they will be passing, they will be accepted. The consequences for not passing are never explicitly said, but are implied to be dire..

There are days, in your life, when you have to answer the door to someone when you just woke up.. no time to put on wigs, do your makeup and pad out your clothing.. there are times your doctor is going to ask you to undress so they can examine you - happened to me at my mammography last week - real life is not about 'passing' some arbitrary test, set by person's unknown with expectations only to be guessed at. Take control and believe in who you are. Your transition is transitory.. by definition. I think the rest of your life post transition has to be liveable, has to be free of fear from not passing and full of being able to accept who you are and find peace and happiness. In my opinon that is or should be the goal of transition.

Then you get people espousing they 'pass' as if they are somehow superior to anyone who has fears they don't.. How clever/pretty/lucky they are in life. - You, for instance,  have not won some "genetic lottery".. I am sorry to inform your ego, you are not any more special than anyone else. You are not passing because of some luck.. You are being accepted because you are being you. You 'pass' as Allie.. I pass as Sarah.. I am accepted as me and people love and cherish ME. It is a requisite that everyone who transitions passes as themselves and not some mythical unicorn. Passing, by espousing that 'I pass' is presenting Unobtanium to the world and smacks to me of superiority of position. If you are a woman, you are a woman - in mine, and a lot of peoples opinion - passing has and should have nothing to do with it.

I don't want someone coming to this resource.. seeing that they will not be accepted unless they overcome some magical barrier that is ill defined and be fearful.. All too often do I read terrible stories from people who lived a life of regret and sorrow because they thought they 'would never pass'.. If to demonstrate that this is opinion and not fact requires me to use a few 'ouches' and be unempathetic then so be it. I would rather people be empowered and given confidence that they are beautiful in themselves and accept that changes can be made to their lives and bodies that will cure their dreadful, life threatening gender dysphoria.. and that does not involve having to sit in cafe's and mimic women.. why, because they already are women who know how to be themselves.

This is not a hobby, not a thing you do at the weekend and then on Monday go back to being Mike at the factory.. For those guys.. yeah, they need to pass.. because, they are not women - they have a hobby. That's fine and dandy. Different rules apply when you are contemplating on making such a huge change to your life as to change your gender and then continue to live with those changes for the rest of your life. This is not a game or a hobby. Transition is about curing a horrible condition. A condition that can quickly take lives if not treated. There is already so much gate-keeping - we don't need (IMHO) to add on made up criteria for some constantly changing test of acceptance..

Lets turn this on it's head.. what would you do if you saw someone and you suspected their birth gender did not match their presentation? We are obviously going to be allies, going to have similar issues in our lives.. The desire to ask 'Excuse me, are you trans?' is strong..  but, heck, no way would you ever do that.. because to do that and be talking to a cis woman would make her feel horrible.. to do that and be talking to a transwoman - would be equally horrible as your telling someone 'you don't pass, I know your secret'.. instead you don't mention it and treat them as the gender they are presenting. Until they bring it up as a subject it is not important. I know a lot of people on here are open and forthright in presenting their history and will gladly opine that they are trans without prompt.. and I salute them because every day they educate more and more people.

In conversations with my female friends (of all descriptions) all have, at some point, been accused of being a man.. it is a common slur thrown around in school playgrounds even.. and, gosh, should you be a woman in a position of management - then people will definitely be laughing behind your back about the possibility of you being male - Look at any prominent female figure from Maggie Thatcher to Taylor Swift all have had those 'jokes' slandered at them.. It is a cruel and unemphatic world (sorry, in my opinon!)..

In conclusion, while I respect your perspective, I feel compelled to address the tone of your post, which struck me as somewhat passive-aggressive and condescending. This issue of "passing" resonates deeply with me personally, as it reflects my own journey and challenges in finding acceptance and authenticity.

The emphasis on "passing" can impose harmful expectations and pressures on individuals navigating their gender identities. Instead, I believe, our focus should be on fostering a community where everyone feels empowered to embrace their true selves without judgment or unrealistic standards.

Moving forward, let's continue to promote inclusivity and support within our community, ensuring that everyone can live authentically and find acceptance for who they are, not how they conform to external expectations. As always, I say this all with huge respect to everyone who is reading and only offer my views and opinions to facilitate more discussion and understanding of this complex subject..

This.. this is why I literally love this girl. That's her in the corner, talking all kinds of truth. Took me a minute to realise who SoupSarah was... but now I know... yeah...  girl, I cannot disagree with any of this. Thank you. I am so glad you're still here.

[Sephirah]

I will never "pass" And I think trying to be feminine to prove some kind of point is no different to trying to be masculine. It's trying to prove the same point. Because it matters to you what other people think more than what YOU think.

No one in my area doesn't treat me as me, though. Not because I've tried to blend in and be inconspicuous... because that's literally never going to happen. It's because I've been all about "Who you are is how you are." There is no way on God's green earth I'm going to look like your average woman. Never in a million years. But.. there are myriad different facets of men and women. If you're good about being you, and you're secure in who you are... go fix truck engines... go make fashion catalogs... don't let anyone tell you that you have to do this, that or the other. Who we are is how we feel. It's really that simple.

People try to be feminine, masculine, everything in between. When you try to be something you ultimately fail. Don't try... you get way better results

[SoupSarah]

This.. this is why I literally love this girl. That's her in the corner, talking all kinds of truth. Took me a minute to realise who SoupSarah was... but now I know... yeah...  girl, I cannot disagree with any of this. Thank you. I am so glad you're still here.

Oh no I've said too much
I haven't said enough!

but yeah, that's me in the photo!..  SarahEL as I was.. back to my very old avatar and name, but now in a much better world..

[darksou]

I'm maybe a little late to the discussion, but to answer to the original post, the things we do or like aren't really feminine nor masculine. These attributes are given by society and sometimes we can wear dresses because we enjoy feeling feminine or simply because we like them. Deciding to do a gendered thing for different reasons than someone else doesn't have to invalidate anyone's experiences with gender.

I consider myself to be nonbinary, but I'm completely fine doing things that make me feel either masculine or feminine even if they aren't objectively either.

[Lori Dee]

the things we do or like aren't really feminine nor masculine. These attributes are given by society

This is exactly correct.