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Marriage Stories and Long-Term Outlook

Started by mmmm1234, August 19, 2024, 01:16:26 PM

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mmmm1234

I'm looking for reports, stories, videos, blogs, personal notes and all other kind of information on the topic of marriage with trans-women. Especially I'm interested in the constellation of western man with an Asian trans-woman.

So far, I've been not so successful in my research. Mainly I came across this forum. But even here the search term "marriage" doesn't bring the results that I'm looking for.

I want to learn about:
- Difficulties in the marriage (especially long-term) and how they did address them.
- Cultural differences.
- Family matters.
- Integration into the new society, language, work.
- The prospect of growing old together.

I'm not interested in:
- Overly romantic displays of married couples without any insight.
- Any of the "usual" problems that straight married couples have to address - there are more than enough resources available.
- Legal issues. Not that this is not important but I'm working on that separately.
- Sex tips.

Any references, links and recommendations are highly appreciated!

Lori Dee

Hi Markus,

Did you check out the Significant Others forum? These would be the kinds of questions to ask there. Many of our members are married and they tell their stories in the Member Blogs forum. But I think you are looking for a perspective from the spouse's side, and that can be found over at the SO forum.

Lori
My Life is Based on a True Story
U.S. Army - SSG (Staff Sergeant) - M60A3 Tank Master Gunner
2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2019- 2nd Diagnosis / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - FFS & Legal Name Change
/ 2024 - Voice Training / 2025 - Passport & IDs complete

mmmm1234

Thanks, will look around there some more.
Sorry if I did post into the wrong section!

Iztaccihuatl

Hi Markus,

Most of the posts here on the topic of marriage and relationships are about one partner coming out and transitioning while in a relationship. If I understand you correctly, your partner has already transitioned and she is living full time as a woman, so much of the discussions here probably won't apply to you.

Since she already transitioned, I don't think you will encounter many issues that cis couples wouldn't. I fact, the only issues I can imagine would be around acceptance by others, like family of friends (yours and hers) not being accepting of her, or if someone unrelated would clock her and then feel entitled to some nasty comments. Be prepared to vigorously defend her in those situations, she'll really appreciate that.

Hugs,

Heidemarie

Lori Dee

Quote from: mmmm1234 on August 19, 2024, 02:21:24 PMThanks, will look around there some more.
Sorry if I did post into the wrong section!

It's ok. We will get it moved to the other forum, so you don't need to rewrite it all again. This site is huge and sometimes things get misplaced. It happens.

Lori
My Life is Based on a True Story
U.S. Army - SSG (Staff Sergeant) - M60A3 Tank Master Gunner
2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2019- 2nd Diagnosis / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - FFS & Legal Name Change
/ 2024 - Voice Training / 2025 - Passport & IDs complete

BlueJaye

This seems like something you should be discussing directly with the Asian woman described in your post.

Northern Star Girl

#6
For the information of our members that may wish to post their comments and thoughts
on this topic... here is the quote from Susan our site founder regarding her directives
for the "Significant Others talk" board.

Any questions, please message me.
Regards,
Danielle [Northern Star Girl]  Email: alaskandanielle@yahoo.com
The Forum Administrator


Quote from: Susan on May 23, 2005, 11:36:10 PMThis forum is primarily intended as a place Significant others can go to in order to seek support from each other. While I do not block the posting by the transgendered I would ask that as much as possible you respect this as a separate area for them. If they have a question and you can answer it in a neutral manner feel free to respond. This is a place for facts and good information and not for advocacy.
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mmmm1234

Quote from: Iztaccihuatl on August 19, 2024, 02:41:25 PMMost of the posts here on the topic of marriage and relationships are about one partner coming out and transitioning while in a relationship. If I understand you correctly, your partner has already transitioned and she is living full time as a woman, so much of the discussions here probably won't apply to you.

Correct, that's what I mostly read here and this is not the case.

Quote from: Iztaccihuatl on August 19, 2024, 02:41:25 PMSince she already transitioned, I don't think you will encounter many issues that cis couples wouldn't. I fact, the only issues I can imagine would be around acceptance by others, like family of friends (yours and hers) not being accepting of her, or if someone unrelated would clock her and then feel entitled to some nasty comments. Be prepared to vigorously defend her in those situations, she'll really appreciate that.

Yes, she did a while ago and lives since a long time as a woman.
I believe we can handle the acceptance since we're both strong personalities and know what we want. It's just a question of which people you surround yourself with. And we're both no weirdos, so as long as there's some understanding for alternate forms of life/love, it'll be fine. Still, it would be interesting to hear how other couples handle certain situations.

But I think it's in fact much more complicated than that.

Though we met in Europe she doesn't have a legal right to stay here and had to return home. So one of the major issues I'm working on is to bring her back. But as said, this is another topic.

What we have in mind, beside the marriage, is the sex and name change that is not allowed in her country. This again raises questions: Since she cannot get Austrian citizenship for many years, she has to stay with her original official documents. That means, in her passport is a different first name, last name (due to marriage), different sex and even the photo doesn't really resemble her anymore (she had to stick her hair up) compared to Austrian documents. And the passport cannot be changed. What happens if she has to show official documents?

Next question is about work. What are other people doing? How to get along? Meanwhile in my country there's a list of shortage occupations. So my idea is to find a training for a specific job on that list (takes 1-2 years) and then she can pick up the job. This means, of course, that she speaks the language. We're working on that.

Other questions are medical concerns, probably ongoing hormone therapy, which is hopefully funded by social security. How do couples handle that? What are the approaches? I'm through with the Wikipedia articles and other common resources.

Getting old is another topic. I honestly have no idea how trans-women do with aging, if there are specific concerns. It would be very interesting to hear some first hand stories, and even if it's just about life (together).

I know that my questions are very specific and may not always target pure transgender topics. But it's just a huge pile of challenges that I need to handle here and I don't like to start into an adventure without any preparations. That's why I'm now trying to cover as much information as possible from all directions.






Lori Dee

Quote from: mmmm1234 on August 20, 2024, 04:34:28 PMWhat we have in mind, beside the marriage, is the sex and name change that is not allowed in her country. This again raises questions: Since she cannot get Austrian citizenship for many years, she has to stay with her original official documents. That means, in her passport is a different first name, last name (due to marriage), different sex and even the photo doesn't really resemble her anymore (she had to stick her hair up) compared to Austrian documents. And the passport cannot be changed. What happens if she has to show official documents?

Thank you for sharing! Now we have more information and hopefully, someone will be able to provide more specific answers.

I realize it is not the best situation, but could she present according to her official documents just long enough to immigrate? Then, once in Austria, learn the language, job training, and get a job while working toward citizenship. While all of this is going on for 1 - 2 years, she could see a therapist and be diagnosed with gender dysphoria and then come out as trans. I have no clue if this is possible, I am just throwing out some ideas.

If that is not possible, what about moving to a different country to get the name change and passport done, then moving to Austria with new documents? I know nothing about the EU laws and have heard they can be difficult. But if another country is more lenient, use that as a stepping stone to get where you want to be. Yes, it could still take years, but transition takes years too. It is sad that she would need to essentially start over just to pacify government regulations.

Perhaps you could look into Austria's policies on asylum for LGBTQ people. An approved request for asylum would allow her time in-country to accomplish all of these things while working toward citizenship. That could be an option.

Keep us updated on how it is going. Only share what you are comfortable with. This is a PUBLIC forum that anyone can read and the internet never forgets.

Be safe.

Lori Dee
My Life is Based on a True Story
U.S. Army - SSG (Staff Sergeant) - M60A3 Tank Master Gunner
2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2019- 2nd Diagnosis / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - FFS & Legal Name Change
/ 2024 - Voice Training / 2025 - Passport & IDs complete

mmmm1234

Thanks for the suggestions. It all depends on different authorities: visa application, marriage allowance, name/sex change, immigration, later maybe citizenship. And even though they are supposed to work for you, they always make it look that you're an annoyance in their daily business. However, there should be a way. I just need to figure it out. Basically I think what you wrote in the first paragraph is the rough plan anyway.
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mmmm1234

I've been working the last days to gather all needed information on required documents. It's a big list but I think I compiled everything.

It will be tedious for her to collect all the documents as some sort of digital governance does not exist in her country. That means some traveling around to collect everything.

I can only recommend such a process if you're really in love. It's a lot of work and costs a lot of time and money...!
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Lori Dee

Quote from: mmmm1234 on August 30, 2024, 09:19:32 AMI've been working the last days to gather all needed information on required documents. It's a big list but I think I compiled everything.

It will be tedious for her to collect all the documents as some sort of digital governance does not exist in her country. That means some traveling around to collect everything.

I can only recommend such a process if you're really in love. It's a lot of work and costs a lot of time and money...!

It's a Labor of Love and a worthwhile investment in your future.

Good luck!
My Life is Based on a True Story
U.S. Army - SSG (Staff Sergeant) - M60A3 Tank Master Gunner
2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2019- 2nd Diagnosis / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - FFS & Legal Name Change
/ 2024 - Voice Training / 2025 - Passport & IDs complete
  • skype:.?call
  •  

mmmm1234

I haven't been active here for some time. Over the last months there have been some developments. Actually, we should be now in the process of gathering all documents and requesting the visa. But I'm kinda stuck.

The reason is that I changed my mind. I visited her and we spent a vacation together. But I left disillusioned after seeing that she didn't keep up with some things I asked her to do. I said that I cannot marry her and that we need to move on.

However, she's not giving up on me. We still call each other on a daily basis. I love her and she loves me even more. And she changed. She takes my advice and those of doctors more seriously. She's working on herself. She opened up to new ideas. But she indeed moved on. Fairly enough, she let me decide how to succeed: Either we split up and she finds her luck somewhere else. Or I finally keep my promise and marry her, as I originally promised her when we met in Europe.

So what's actually stopping me?

(1) Keeping up the long distance relationship is very difficult for us. And expectations were very high when we finally met again. Seeing someone on a phone camera is totally different than meeting this person in real life. This detaches the reality of the person's looks and behavior to the imagination of how you think this person looks and behaves. I'm afraid that once married, this illusion will not align with reality and that I regret my decision.

(2) I'm terribly afraid of the wedding itself. Luckily she only wants a small ceremony, same as me. But I'm already getting stressed by the authorities which require not only the usual documents but also translations, legalizations and apostilles. And I'm getting stressed about relatives who may want or not want to visit the wedding.

(3) I'm afraid of difficulties of integration, language and job opportunities. I am looking forward to a new challenge in my life, to do that all with her. But at the same time I see so many difficulties that may be harder to solve over time than originally assumed. I know, you've got to take one step after the other. But it seems there are a million steps. And I have to navigate her through everything.

(4) I'm afraid of losing the attraction to her. I would describe myself as an active person, I do sports. I also try to live a healthy life and eat healthy stuff. Sure, SE-Asian countries have far more challenges and people need to survive on tight budgets. But I really need to bring her to a level that makes me desire her as long as possible. So far she promised me to take care of her skin and that she would love to do some sports activities with her. Of course, I believe her. But sometimes believing someone is not enough...



Thanks for reading. It helps to write down all my fears and thoughts. I'm endlessly browsing all our photos we have, browsing through the memories, picturing all these moments and trying to see the real beauty of her. But so often I have other thoughts that really hit me hard...

Lori Dee

@mmmm1234

Thank you for your candid update. It is good that you are closely examining these things before getting involved too deeply. The important thing is to remember that you cannot change her and she cannot change you. People can only change themselves, be it appearance or behaviors. Not everyone is willing to make life-altering changes to themselves, or their motivation wears off and they become unwilling to continue. You are wise to think of these things. On the other hand, if she is willing to do things WITH you and the two of you continue to do these things together, they can form healthy habits that improve your health and relationship.

We hope that it goes well for you. Keep us updated as much as you are comfortable with. And thank you for sharing!

Hugs!
My Life is Based on a True Story
U.S. Army - SSG (Staff Sergeant) - M60A3 Tank Master Gunner
2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2019- 2nd Diagnosis / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - FFS & Legal Name Change
/ 2024 - Voice Training / 2025 - Passport & IDs complete

SoupSarah

I met my husband nearly 5 years ago, he lived 4000 miles away from me, but we both lived in western modern countries.. USA and UK.. It was durning the Covid pandemic when we first met online - and it took about 6 months to go from friends to being in love..  we had never met, only video and email.. but I felt something for this guy that I never felt before - I was still living as male, not yet transitioned, though that was on the cards and an inevitable thing.
For 18 months we talked every day - hoping Covid restrictions would be lifted and we could actually meet. Eventually, in November 2021 the first planes from the UK to the USA started flying and I was on one of them.
By this time I had totally transitioned and travelled under my new name, passport and gender. We met, we kissed and fireworks exploded... the world felt right...  There was no doubts. Neither of us had ever felt like that before, and being old and befuddled (in our 50's and 60's respectively) it was quite a shock.. both of us had been married before and this love we shared was so much more than what we had before... I say this to you, because, this is not how your description of your love for this Asian woman seems to read..

We got engaged within the first few weeks of physically meeting each other - and we started the immigration process to get me into the USA full time.. That was December 2021.. and it cost over $1000 to submit the form and documentation. I flew back.. we waited.. I had surgery in February and he came over to help me recover.. I flew back twice more to the USA in that year (2022).. and it took until the following March (2023) before we had any notification that the immigration was proceeding.. In that time my future husband suffered a stroke, I flew into the USA in a panic, to find him very ill in hospital. I think this is how I knew I loved him, because, with the chance he would be bed-ridden his entire life, unable to remember me - I still wanted to marry him and be his wife...

Luckily he managed to recover - well enough to not have any really lasting impedement to living a healthy life...  and then we got the authorisation for our visa to marry - and I then had to visit the USA embassy in London, that took 6 months to book.. and another $1000.. and then I needed vaccinations, again another $1000 and another trip to London.. and so, finally - by Novemeber 2023 - 2 years (almost to the day) I had a fiancee visa in hand and a ticket to the USA, one way!!!!  It had cost about $5600 in just costs and then living separately and flights over the 2 years added up to about $28k.. Not working meant this was all out of savings.. Costs to ship my stuff to the USA was $5000 - This is expensive.. very expensive.

Landing in the USA - there was no issue with entering the country - all my paperwork was correct, there was a declaration on my medical report that I was a trans woman, but that proved no issue and only resulted in the border guard making a phonecall to their physician to 'check it was all ok'??..  On arrival I had to get married (we did that at a court house for $400, plus the licence fee $200 in December) and then apply for my permanent residence status (green card) - that costs $1400  .. and, 12 months later it still had not processed. It should process soon - and until it does I have the status of a 'non-resident alien' despite the fact I am married to a US citizen, work a job, own a car and house and have a MN driving licence.. It does mean, however, that the Federal government takes 30% of my earning in tax.....  hmmm wonder why it takes so long to get my green card?

Culturally you would think the US and UK to be close - and they are - but they are not the same. I have had quite the eye opening experience in learning how to be part of this culture. The differences are subtle but they are differences and it jars with you as the 'alien' as it is not how you think things should work.. It is every aspect of society this impacts, from saying hello to people ('how ya doin?' as opposed to 'how are you today?'..) to the complexities of medical healthcare systems and the dreaded DMV.. I love America, I am glad I live here - but heck, it certainly isn't Britain. I would not want to go back, this is my home now and I am very happy but I am amazed at how much the differences impinge on how the society works and in how you as an individual fit into it. This is cryptic, but I certainly understand why America is the land of the free..   Just to pick up another point in your last post - I never wanted to change my husband or get him to 'do things' for me - that is not how relationships or love work - you fall in love with the person - warts and all. you don't try and model them into your ideal - because that is your ideal and not who they are.. Control and manipulation of another person will only result in disappointment and disillusionment for both of you. I doesn't sound like love..

What I am rambling on about is - You have to have a bond with this person, a love that is unshakeable.. Because immigration is tough, it is especially tough on the person immigrating and leaving their culture behind - If I had to learn a new language, I think I would still be struggling now.. and this is between western cultures - not disparate ones such as yours. The cost is enormous. The time to get it all processed immense.. seriously - this is not something to do on a whim or for a relationship that you 'see where it all goes'.. you need to be making a commitment to your soul mate, the person for whom you would gladly die to save their life. I would go through this process again for my husband - I would walk through fire for him if I needed to - but I would not do this for anyone else.

You asked about practicalities  of relationships with a trans woman - well that is easy to deal with  - trans women are women - simple. All the complications that occur in relationships happen just the same - I get upset with him leaving his sneakers in the bathroom, not closing cabinet doors and generally being a slob.. LOL.. it is all the same as any other normal relationship. As for ageing, again, there is nothing special about being a trans woman as opposed to a woman - they are the same - we get old, we get grey hair's and wrinkles - we love grandkids and we get crotchety..

I rarely give out advice - but reading through your last post, I get the distinct impression that your relationship would not survive very long, down this arduous road. My advice would be to keep each other as friends, to keep what you have but allow the romance, the partnership and the relationships to evolve with other people. I wish you both luck in whatever direction your journeys now take you. take care.
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Please Note: Everything I write is my own opinion - People seem to get confused  over this
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mmmm1234

Quote from: SoupSarah on November 15, 2024, 06:52:49 PMI met my husband nearly 5 years ago [...]

Thanks for sharing your story. The part with the stroke really got me sentimental!

Every person's story is different. It's interesting to read it. I can feel that immense bond between you two. If you both feel it, then it must be right.


Quote from: SoupSarah on November 15, 2024, 06:52:49 PMI rarely give out advice - but [...]

My postings are only a small part of our story. There's much more. I think I gave some important aspects. Being the person that I am, my aspects are mainly of a technical nature. I think in structures and big plans, try to analyze problems and find solutions. That may be sometimes helpful but now it blocks me because it distracts from the feelings. Given that little information probably every person would say, leave it be.


Quote from: SoupSarah on November 15, 2024, 06:52:49 PMControl and manipulation of another person will only result in disappointment and disillusionment for both of you. It doesn't sound like love..

This is very true. Thanks for reminding me!
I know I need to change my way of thinking. I need to overcome my fears (of losing control) because I simply cannot shape the future. I can give some directions but I cannot control the outcome of it all. My partner is such a positive thinking human, despite all her troubles in life. She seems to be more happy with life than me. And I want to embrace this happiness, too! I like to think that in the long run she is the solution to all my problems. Because she's simply there with me.



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SoupSarah

Just an update to this - We got engaged 3 years ago yesterday - and yesterday my Green Card arrived, granting me permanent residence in the USA... it's been quite a journey, but now at last, all the paperwork is over (well for a couple of years anyway). Still 3 years to complete immigration from the UK to the USA is a stupendously long time and the constant worry of something 'going wrong' and my application being rejected has been a toll on us both. Especially as when we started this whole thing, my hubbie's income was more than enough to meet the minimum required to allow a foreign spouse into the country.. then the stroke and that was cut to basically nothing and then the constant threat of not meeting the requirements loomed over us. I would never recommend anyone go through immigration into the USA (and I think into the EU or UK is probably worse?).. Unless that person is worth it. (And only you will know that)..
Oh no I've said too much
I haven't said enough

Please Note: Everything I write is my own opinion - People seem to get confused  over this
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mmmm1234

Also an update from my side...
The visa was approved, the flight is in a few days. The marriage is arranged but I there are currently 0 guests. The waiting time and uncertainty was very, very difficult for both of us.

Any tips on how I could tell all that to my family would be appreciated. So far they only know that I'm going to get married to a foreigner...
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