Trans always or just a woman

[barbie]

Hi Everyone
During a 2005 interview with Mike Wallace for television's "60 Minutes" news magazine program, Academy Award-winning actor Morgan Freeman found the concept of Black History Month to be "ridiculous" and maintained the way to get rid of racism was to "stop talking about it".

I can not agree on it more, and you pinpointed what I wanted to say, but did not express well in English. "Just don't talk about it. Just do it" is a kind of my motto.

Cheers,

barbie~~

[ChrissyRyan]

I like it at the supermarket when I walk in and the carts are stuck that sometimes a guy says, "Let me get for you ma'am."  Most of the time you are left to yourself in those situations; but, sometimes, two or three times, a man helped me. 

That is thoughtful.

Chrissy

[Oldandcreaky]

But it'll be curious to see if that fades over time.

Me too. Keep me in the loop.

I'm welcomed into the club with open arms... but maybe I should stay out of the VIP area.

Well put.

[barbie]

It is annoying to me that men ask whether I need help. When I take selfies, they ask more than once whether they can take photos for me. They are excessivly kind.

Sometimes a man approaches me on the excuse of his companion animal, mostly dog. But a week ago on the beach, one man used his horse as an excuse, saying that his horse was out of control. A moment later another man passing me repeatedly asked me whether he may take photos for me. He was with a woman, presumably his wife. This happened to be recorded by my phone camera.



Cheers,

barbie~~

[Nadine Spirit]

Early on in my transition my wife asked me why I always identified myself as a trans woman when I went places, like a new support group, or that one time at a PFLAG meeting. I said to her that I felt I was just being honest about who I am, and she pointed out that she doesn't introduce herself as a woman. She just says her name and she was a little confused as to why I didn't just do the same. Basically I want to be perceived as a woman, everywhere, and every time, however I was continually outing myself all the time because of some sense of obligation to tell people about my past.

Eventually I stopped. Now I will only ever do it when I give TG college speeches. Why else would it come up if I don't bring it up? Oh, right, at my last surgical consult appointment I did talk about being trans to the surgeon, but again only because it was relevant. So I'll talk about it as need be, but it doesn't normally need to be talked about.

[Sarah B]

Hi Nadine

Nadine you mentioned in your post.

Early on in my transition my wife asked me why I always identified myself as a trans woman when I went places, like a new support group, or that one time at a PFLAG meeting. I said to her that I felt I was just being honest about who I am, and she pointed out that she doesn't introduce herself as a woman.  She just says her name and she was a little confused as to why I didn't just do the same.  Basically I want to be perceived as a woman, everywhere, and every time, however I was continually outing myself all the time because of some sense of obligation to tell people about my past.

Eventually I stopped. Now I will only ever do it when I give TG college speeches. Why else would it come up if I don't bring it up? Oh, right, at my last surgical consult appointment I did talk about being trans to the surgeon, but again only because it was relevant. So I'll talk about it as need be, but it doesn't normally need to be talked about.

What I have highlighted, is exactly what should be done in all manner of similar situations.  One of the fundamental reasons why I never tell anyone.  They see me or perceive me to be a women, nothing less and nothing more.  I do not have any obligation to tell them anything about me and neither do they.  If I did they would perceive me as something completely different, no way is that going to happen not if I can help it.

To me this is a binary world of approximately 49.5% male and 50.5%female, 0.1% intersex and 1% transgender.  Please don't quote me on these figures.  So there was a stuff up regardless of how it happened for intersex and transgender people and if they wish to be labelled however, then that is their prerogative to do so.  I however, will place my two feet in the binary world and more specifically the female group.

I will only talk about it very rarely and only when there is a good reason to do so.

Love and Hugs
Sarah B
Official Greeter
@Nadine Spirit

[CosmicJoke]

I was having  conversation with my wife, saying that at some point I feel I would just be a woman and move on from being trans. As many members do, I feel I would probably just continue life as a woman and move on from the groups, boards and chats to just living my life as a woman. Her response was you will always be a trans woman no matter what. This really got me thinking. Comments, thoughts ?

This is just what I think but isn't a transwoman already a woman? You could stop doing those things if that's what you want but I don't think you're any less of a woman for continuing to do them. That's only if you want to of course.

[imallie]

A few interactions from this weekend helped clarify things for me a bit, in terms of this question. Because a large part of being a woman vs being a transwoman (not to make ANY judgement whatsoever on the relative merits of either choice -- to each her own) is learning to BE a woman, in temperament, interpersonal relationships, and general deportment. And I am NOT talking about any of the outward things like how you walk, talk, hold your hands, etc.

It's more about how women talk to, and interact with each other.

I've always been more comfortable talking to women, so that part has been easy for me. And very early in my transition, female friends and family would ALWAYS say, to any photo posted, or upon seeing me in person, how "amazing" I looked, or paying me other such compliments.

And, while I do admittedly look pretty good (Oh God, get OVER myself, Pul-eese!), I have to say I kind of got used to it... and came to expect it.

But the last few months or so -- I don't hear it anymore.

At first, I thought? Do I no longer look good? And it made me self conscious.

But watch a group of women gather -- it's NEVER a "how great you look!" fest. A new hairstyle, of course people weigh in. You've lost weight? Of course. But just day in and day out? No way.

Those first few months I was on the training wheels protocol. But I think lately I'm getting big girl treatment.

My sister texted me this weekend with photos of an outfit she was going to wear to her daughter's 40th birthday party to see what I thought, saying "you're really my only sister who I think cares much about fashion."

And when we were at a big dinner with my wife's side last evening, my sister-in-law from across the table, tapped her neck area and smiled -- telling me how much she liked my necklace.

Those are just micro examples of how women compliment each other.

So I do think being a woman is more than just a self-declaration, it's the capacity of your mind and spirit to instinctively respond in kind to those kinds of reactions, and in fact initiate them. I hate to use the word "surrender" .. but I mean it in a positive, not passive fashion. You need to be able to surrender to this so that it becomes instinctual.

Just my $0.02. And maybe just the way I enter the world and does not ring true for anyone else. Certainly not looking to dictate to anyone. Just share how I've made sense of all this

Love,
Allie

[Lori Dee]

@imallie

I am with you on that. I have always been more comfortable talking with women, to my own detriment. Nobody wanted to see some "guy" getting along with their girls. But since transitioning, I pick up on those cues and send them myself. It's like I'm part of the club now, I know the secret handshake, and I speak the secret language. Clearly, you are there too.

[Oldandcreaky]

So I do think being a woman is more than just a self-declaration, it's the capacity of your mind and spirit to instinctively respond in kind to those kinds of reactions, and in fact initiate them.

I was at a festival yesterday for four hours and three or four times, I complimented other women on aspects of their appearance, once for hair, once for sunglasses, once for the entire outfit, and perhaps a fourth one that I can't recall. Each time, the women were happy to talk about that element of their appearance or something else.

I was with several other women and one dresses plainly like me, but she too noted and commented on fashion. We both enjoy it, but don't employ it. However, I always have to read the room before complimenting someone. Some women will be offended when you compliment not them.

[ChrissyRyan]

I do enjoy receiving a genuine compliment.

I do give them too. 

Except once I was a bit careless as I entered a home.  I was visiting where there were two adjoining front doors, a double door if you will.  Each door had an ornate door knocker, matching.  Each had a thick ring that would strike a plate.  Please take note that one needs to carefully compliment a female host that she has some really nice knockers, no matter how genuine the compliment.  Choose your words wisely.  There could be a misinterpretation.

Fortunately this was during transition and me presenting as female otherwise I might have had a bigger frown come my way, and perhaps a boot out those double doors.


Chrissy

[ChrissyRyan]

I enjoy talking with other women. It is nice.  Some things I cannot relate to directly but I can listen and learn.  Plus it helped that earlier on some drew me into the conversation... slowly I became more comfortable in these situations. 

Chrissy

[Oldandcreaky]

I enjoy talking with other women. It is nice.  Some things I cannot relate to directly but I can listen and learn.  Plus it helped that earlier on some drew me into the conversation... slowly I became more comfortable in these situations. 

Chrissy

Cool, Chrissy!

[imallie]

I enjoy talking with other women. It is nice.  Some things I cannot relate to directly but I can listen and learn.  Plus it helped that earlier on some drew me into the conversation... slowly I became more comfortable in these situations. 

Chrissy

Admittedly, this is somewhat stereotypical ... but it is not without it's merit:

In a conversation between a group of men, each of them are listening mostly for key words - any key words that will allow THEM to jump in with a story, opinion, share a fact, etc. They feel pressure to contribute at best, dominate at worst.

Women actually listen and learn. They are happy to share when it makes sense, but often their contributions are QUESTIONS to others — either for further info about what they were saying, clarification, or even advice on a different issue based on skills just revealed.

If you ever wonder why so many women seem so uncannily skilled at "oh, how's your son Mark doing at Brandeis?" upon seeing someone for the second time, while a guy might be like "oh yeah, I know you!"  It's because they pay attention.

Personally when I was living as a guy, I felt more obligated to "perform" at times... but I only did it in groups of guys. I find it wonderful to go out my wife and sisters-in-law and mostly just listen and laugh, unless there's some real reason for me to contribution and of course when I'm asked questions - which happens often.

Male aura, female aura... it's a real thing. And you can sense it by the way people communicate. Has zero to do with appearance.

(Sorry - I feel like I veered the topic off course a bit. Let me know if you want me to delete the above prattle)

[Oldandcreaky]

Love your post, Allie.

[ChrissyRyan]

A good way to remember things is to listen well.

Chrissy

[ChrissyRyan]

If you do not listen, you cannot remember.

[Lilis]

So what I gather from this thread is that some transgender women may choose to go "stealth". Concealing their trans history from others for personal reasons or something else.

On the other hand, some transgender women may choose to be open about their trans history. This can be for a variety of reasons, as well.

I wonder if these responses answered the OP questions?

They helped me understand more.

It seems like a complex situation, and a personal one. I gained a wealth of knowledge from this thread that I can take with me on my journey.

Thank you everyone for sharing your experiences, and perspectives.

[Paulie]

Except once I was a bit careless as I entered a home.  I was visiting where there were two adjoining front doors, a double door if you will.  Each door had an ornate door knocker, matching.  Each had a thick ring that would strike a plate.  Please take note that one needs to carefully compliment a female host that she has some really nice knockers, no matter how genuine the compliment.  Choose your words wisely.  There could be a misinterpretation.

Chrissy

Sorry to take this thread off track for a bit, but you post about the "nice knockers" instantly made me think of this:



From the late 80's I think. 

Okay, now I'll stop talking and start listening again.   

[Lori Dee]

Sorry to take this thread off track for a bit, but you post about the "nice knockers" instantly made me think of this:

From the late 80's I think.

Okay, now I'll stop talking and start listening again.   

While in Germany, there was a radio program. It was two guys talking and one of them interprets everything to be sexual, but the guy telling the story means it in a strictly innocent way. It was hilarious when he was talking about his new female neighbor's "balcony", how nice it was, it was big and strong (firm). The other guy keeps asking questions about her "balcony" like a perv.

OK. My turn to shut up.