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Bras for beginners, part one: how to find your correct band size

Started by TanyaG, September 21, 2024, 04:21:47 AM

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TanyaG

We all adore bras, but between choosing the back size and cup size it can be a nightmare finding the perfect fit. When I began crossdressing it was even worse because it meant going into stores (no internet then, it was that long ago) where all the assistants were older than my grandmother and had permanently raised eyebrows.

I could write a sitcom about my experiences, veering between wishing the floor would swallow me up and a memorable occasion when the owner of a shop flipped the sign to closed and rolled out the red carpet. These days it is a lot easier because you can order off the web, but believe me, it used to be the total experience.

It isn't easy finding bras that fit, even when you are a cis woman – many of whom are wearing the wrong size bra – but though it is harder when you are not, it isn't that tough once you understand the basics. The most basic of all basics is getting your band size right, because everything else about a bra depends on that. Get this right once and buying bras will become less of a gamble and more of a pleasure.

Why is band (sometimes called 'back') size so important?

Bras are designed to take the weight of breasts through the band, not on the shoulder straps. So, if the strap is too slack, the back of the bra will ride up and the cups will droop down, which isn't a great look with natural breasts and is positively disastrous with breast forms of any description. This is a non judgmental post, so if any readers enjoy the feel of wires poking into their armpits and forms spilling out of their outfits, go with it, but if you seek the dream fit, read on.

How do I work out my band size?

You only need to take one measurement. Using a flexible tape, measure the distance around your bare chest two and a half to three inches (6 – 7.5 cm) below your nipples, pulling the tape tight without stretching it and keeping it horizontal around your back while standing. By nipple, I mean the nipple itself, not the circular areola around it.

Why that distance below the nipple? Because, depending on the size and type of breast form or plate you have, that's where the fold of your boobs will fall. In women, this place is known as the 'under bust' measurement because they have a bust to measure under, but for those of us who do not have this advantage, an offset needs to be built in, or you will end up with the wrong band size because your chest widens as it goes up.

For simplicity's sake, from now on I'm going to call the measurement we just took the 'under bust measurement'.

Finding your UK/US band size

For me the under bust measurement works out at 35 inches. If I run this through a few bra size calculators, some will tell me a 40 inch band is what I need, whilst others recommend a 36 inch back. Which is right?

The answer is both, because everything depends on the brand you buy. However, these days the vast majority of bras labelled – to take one size as an example – as having a 36 inch band, are made to fit a 35 or 36 inch chest measurement. A minority of brands (mostly in the US) size their bras so that a band labelled 40 inches will fit the same measurements, based on what is known as the +4 system, which dates back to the 1950s.

For some insane reason many bra size calculators available on the web still use +4 to work out their answers as do some store website calculators. Even more unhelpfully, I have never seen a label which give a clue which system the maker uses, and the peach icing on this particular fruitcake is that laid flat, a 36 inch band (or one labelled 40 in +4) actually measures more like 30 inches.

The missing six inches in the example above comes from the band stretching, so a learning point is that you can't easily tell what back size a bra is by laying a tape on it – you must look at the label.

The good news is that the +4 system is sunsetting, which means that for most bras on sale today, band size calculation in inches is so easy you don't need a calculator to work it out. If your under bust measurement is even, then that is your band size. If it is odd, add on one inch to get your band size.

Bra back sizes go up in two inch increments, so if your under bust measurement is 37 or 38 inches, then the correct band size for you is a 38, whereas if it is 39 or 40 inches, you will need a 40 and so on up and down the scale.

Finding your EU band size

The metric system was created to simplify calculations... but they forgot to tell the standard setters for bra manufacturers about that.

Europe has several sizing systems for backs, but fortunately for us, only one, the EN13402 standard, is common and its bands go up in 5 cm increments. Using the EU system, an under bust measurement of 90 cm equates to an 80 cm bra band size on the label, whilst a 95 cm measurement works out at an 85 cm band and so on.

EU measurements don't work quite like the UK/US system, so anything between 87.5 cm and 92.4 cm chest will do for an 80 cm band, while 92.5 and 97.4 are the limits for an 85 cm one.

Or thereabouts. When in doubt, if you know your UK/US band size, then checking the label of any bra will show you the EU equivalent.

I'm curvily built/deliciously petite, help! Is there a band size for me?

Most ranges run from a 30 UK/US (EU 65) to a 44 US/UK (EU 100). If you measure above a 44 band, do not despair, because some ranges include a 46 band (EU 105), while a few go as far as a 50, which is an EU 115. At the other end of the scale, a 28 in band (EU 60) is as small as you are likely to find. Don't forget that the +4 system is still out there, though, so - to give an example - some bras made in the US and sold as having a 48 in band will have what most of us would think of as a 44 in band.

What happens if I lie right on the edge between two band increments?

This is one reason why bras have several sets of hooks on the back – if a bra in what should be your band size feels too tight, try going up a size and using the second set of hooks in. A bra with a back that is your exact size should fit perfectly on the outer set of hooks. The stretch built into bands provides a margin for error, but see below for how tight a well fitted band should be.

Massive tip: if you go up a band size over the one you normally wear for this reason, don't forget to go down a cup size. So if you normally wear a 36C (80C), and find a brand only fits you if you buy it in a 38, don't buy a 38C – the cups will be too big for your forms. Instead, you should buy a 38B (85B). I'll explain why this is so in another post, but there is a logic behind it.

How tight should a bra be?

Using the measuring system above, you should get it right most of the time, but with a properly fitting bra, there should to be resistance if you try to slide a hand up your spine and under the hooks. The rest of the time, the band should sit level and with the straps under slight tension it should not pull up at the back at all. After wearing the right band and moving around for half an hour, the bottom of the band should be straight all the way around the back.

The classic sign of a band that is too large is that the section between the straps where the hooks link up is the only level bit and sits higher than the cradle of the bra (which is the part of the band to which the cups attach.) If you find yourself fastening a bra on the innermost set of hooks with the strap tensioners pulled all the way up, either the elastic is gone in the bra, or you need to try a size down.

The band is load bearing, so after wearing a bra for a while, a correctly sized band will leave light marks on your skin that will fade away within a couple of hours after it is undone. What a band shouldn't do is chafe, leave red marks on the skin or cause rolls of skin to bulge above it. One thing that can be an issue even with the correct band size is shoulder straps digging in, but that only occurs with larger cup sizes and is something else for another post.

I have bought a bra which is my band size, but it still feels too tight? Help!

Quality of fit depends on how elastic the 'wings' of a bra are (the wings are the part of the band that run from about the midline of your armpit back to the hooks.) Where this can be especially frustrating is when you buy two bras from a maker which share the same parent style, but which are made of different materials. The Fantasie Adrienne line is a perfect example, because while the fuller cupped side support version fits me perfectly in a 36, the very similar balcony bra variant is too tight in a 36 because it uses a mesh in the wings which doesn't stretch as much. I haven't tried the 38 but I bet it is too slack :-(

The TL:DR on fitting is that a correctly fitted band should always be slightly difficult to hook up. For many of us, that is part of the pleasure of wearing lingerie. While you can deal with it by putting on your bras with the hooks at the front and rotating the band right way around before pulling it up, a better solution is to try exercises that increase joint movement. Not only does this work, it's good for you, so give it a go.

Next, 'What cup size am I?'

Lori Dee

My Life is Based on a True Story
Veteran U.S. Army - SSG (Staff Sergeant) - M60A3 Tank Master Gunner
2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2019- 2nd Diagnosis / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - FFS & Legal Name Change
/ 2024 - Voice Training / 2025 - Passport & IDs complete
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Gaydave

Thank you. Am not sure am at that point yet.  I have just brought Size 12 but when at the point of wanting bras I will order them online

TracieCarolinaGirl

This is so incredibly detailed and well written.  Thank you so much. I am so excited about buying my first pretty bra.  Now can you do the same for wigs? 😊
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Lori Dee

@TracieCarolinaGirl

Hello Tracie,

I'm Lori Dee. Welcome to Susan's Place!

Thank you for becoming our newest member!

We strive to make this a safe place to find information and to share your thoughts and comments. We have members here with a wide range of experiences from all over the world. No matter who you are, you are always welcome at Susan's Place.

We would like to get to know you. Once you feel comfortable here, please feel free to stop by the Introductions Forum, introduce yourself and tell us something about you.

And now for a quick tour of the site. Clicking the HOME button will take you to a page where you can see all of the various sub-forums. Feel free to comment and share your experiences too.

Please keep in mind when posting that this is an ALL-AGES PUBLIC Forum and the internet never forgets. Do not post anything that you do not want to be made public.

I will add some links here that are important for new members. Pay special attention to the links in RED. When you reach 15 posts, you will be able to send and reply to private messages and to add an avatar to your profile.

Until then if you have any questions about the Susan's Place site and the Forums, please feel free to contact me at  LoriDee605@outlook.com

Once again, Welcome to Susan's Place!

~ Lori Dee
Forum Staff


Things that you should read





@Sarah B
@Northern Star Girl
My Life is Based on a True Story
Veteran U.S. Army - SSG (Staff Sergeant) - M60A3 Tank Master Gunner
2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2019- 2nd Diagnosis / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - FFS & Legal Name Change
/ 2024 - Voice Training / 2025 - Passport & IDs complete
  • skype:.?call
  •  

ChrissyRyan

Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.  Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Help connect a person to someone that may be able to help that person.  Be brave, be strong.  A TRUE friend is a treasure.  Relationships are very important, people are important, and the sooner we all realize that the better off the world will be.  Try a little kindness.  Be generous with your time, energy, wisdom, and resources.   Inconvenience yourself to help someone.   I am a brown eyed, brown haired woman. 
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    The following users thanked this post: TanyaG

ChrissyRyan

Quote from: TracieCarolinaGirl on September 30, 2024, 07:58:55 PMThis is so incredibly detailed and well written.  Thank you so much. I am so excited about buying my first pretty bra.  Now can you do the same for wigs? 😊

Tracie,

Yes, it certainly was!  Perhaps she may write about wigs.  There are a lot of posts on wigs here, and you may find what you want by using the Web site's search function. 

It may be wise to find the styles and colors you like and try ones which are not expensive at first.  Later try more expensive ones, perhaps human hair wigs.  In addition to finding the wigs, there are topics of wig styling, storage, and wig care.

I have some wigs but I prefer my own hair.  However some stylish longer ones can look great, providing they are the right color for you, and have been well cared for. 

Certainly you may buy wigs online, even at Amazon and eBay.  Going to a wig shop can be helpful though. Almost for sure for the more expensive wigs. 

Happy learning about wigs as you browse Susan's Place!

Chrissy
Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.  Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Help connect a person to someone that may be able to help that person.  Be brave, be strong.  A TRUE friend is a treasure.  Relationships are very important, people are important, and the sooner we all realize that the better off the world will be.  Try a little kindness.  Be generous with your time, energy, wisdom, and resources.   Inconvenience yourself to help someone.   I am a brown eyed, brown haired woman. 

Lori Dee

I agree with Chrissy about going to a wig shop. They can measure your head so you know what size you need. They will have different colors and styles to try on. The salon I go to also has catalogs to look through so see what you might like. She has samples of different colors of hair so you can see how a color matches your complexion. Have an open mind and try different things. Once you have an idea of what you are looking for they can order it for you or you can go online and order there. I currently have 12 wigs and toppers of different styles and colors. I also posted some photos in my blog of various styles and colors I have worn over the years. You can find that here:
https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,247442.msg2275580.html#msg2275580
My Life is Based on a True Story
Veteran U.S. Army - SSG (Staff Sergeant) - M60A3 Tank Master Gunner
2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2019- 2nd Diagnosis / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - FFS & Legal Name Change
/ 2024 - Voice Training / 2025 - Passport & IDs complete
  • skype:.?call
  •  

ChrissyRyan

Quote from: Lori Dee on September 30, 2024, 10:22:01 PMI agree with Chrissy about going to a wig shop. They can measure your head so you know what size you need. They will have different colors and styles to try on. The salon I go to also has catalogs to look through so see what you might like. She has samples of different colors of hair so you can see how a color matches your complexion. Have an open mind and try different things. Once you have an idea of what you are looking for they can order it for you or you can go online and order there. I currently have 12 wigs and toppers of different styles and colors. I also posted some photos in my blog of various styles and colors I have worn over the years. You can find that here:
https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,247442.msg2275580.html#msg2275580


I have been to two wig shops and had no issues, and had good advice and service. As a crossdresser, one may prefer a more private consulting session and often the shop owner may be very accommodating. As a transitioning MTF this may not be as big an issue but the first time can be unnerving until you get comfortable at the wig shops.

Lori has 12 wigs, that is many more than what I have.  Although I have tossed or donated a number of them since my college years but none of those were expensive ones.

Chrissy
Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.  Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Help connect a person to someone that may be able to help that person.  Be brave, be strong.  A TRUE friend is a treasure.  Relationships are very important, people are important, and the sooner we all realize that the better off the world will be.  Try a little kindness.  Be generous with your time, energy, wisdom, and resources.   Inconvenience yourself to help someone.   I am a brown eyed, brown haired woman. 
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Lori Dee

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on September 30, 2024, 10:31:35 PMI have been to two wig shops and had no issues, and had good advice and service. As a crossdresser, one may prefer a more private consulting session and often the shop owner may be very accommodating. As a transitioning MTF this may not be as big an issue but the first time can be unnerving until you get comfortable at the wig shops.

Lori has 12 wigs, that is many more than what I have.  Although I have tossed or donated a number of them since my college years but none of those were expensive ones.

Chrissy

When I called to schedule my first visit, I explained that I was transgender and was interested in looking at wigs. She scheduled the appointment for a Saturday so I had the whole salon to myself. Hairdressers are very open and accepting people, generally speaking.
My Life is Based on a True Story
Veteran U.S. Army - SSG (Staff Sergeant) - M60A3 Tank Master Gunner
2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2019- 2nd Diagnosis / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - FFS & Legal Name Change
/ 2024 - Voice Training / 2025 - Passport & IDs complete
  • skype:.?call
  •  

TracieCarolinaGirl

Oh my gosh, y'all are so nice and helpful. Than you so much.  It's a bit overwhelming fo me right now and this is the knowledge I was hoping to find when I registered. I don't see a lot of size options on the wigs on Amazon.  I assume there must be sizing issues right?  So the wig shops are accommodating to men looking for female wigs?
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ChrissyRyan

Quote from: TracieCarolinaGirl on September 30, 2024, 10:47:45 PMOh my gosh, y'all are so nice and helpful. Than you so much.  It's a bit overwhelming fo me right now and this is the knowledge I was hoping to find when I registered. I don't see a lot of size options on the wigs on Amazon.  I assume there must be sizing issues right?  So the wig shops are accommodating to men looking for female wigs?

Getting your head measurement done is important, for sure.  If you order online try to find listings with a large cap size if you think you have a large head.

Yes, it is possible to find wig shops for males wanting female wigs.  Call in advance of going there if you want to make sure that a shop will be accommodating. 

Wig cap styles is another matter entirely. 

Chrissy

Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.  Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Help connect a person to someone that may be able to help that person.  Be brave, be strong.  A TRUE friend is a treasure.  Relationships are very important, people are important, and the sooner we all realize that the better off the world will be.  Try a little kindness.  Be generous with your time, energy, wisdom, and resources.   Inconvenience yourself to help someone.   I am a brown eyed, brown haired woman. 
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TracieCarolinaGirl

I don't thing wig caps are an option for me lol.  Follicly challenged, and thus excited to find a fun wig.  I do have a fairly large head and am concerned about the wigs on Amazon fitting.  And then there 's the whole makeup thing 😆
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Lori Dee

Quote from: TracieCarolinaGirl on September 30, 2024, 10:47:45 PMSo the wig shops are accommodating to men looking for female wigs?

Of course. They don't care about why you want a wig. Maybe you are a crossdresser. Maybe a drag performer. Maybe going to a Halloween Party. Maybe you just like women's hairstyles more than men's. It is helpful if you give them enough information so they know what look you want, i.e. feminine, hippie, etc.

We should really get back to bras since that is the subject of this thread. Apologies Tanya.
My Life is Based on a True Story
Veteran U.S. Army - SSG (Staff Sergeant) - M60A3 Tank Master Gunner
2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2019- 2nd Diagnosis / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - FFS & Legal Name Change
/ 2024 - Voice Training / 2025 - Passport & IDs complete
  • skype:.?call
  •  

TanyaG

Quote from: TracieCarolinaGirl on September 30, 2024, 07:58:55 PMThis is so incredibly detailed and well written.  Thank you so much. I am so excited about buying my first pretty bra.  Now can you do the same for wigs? 😊
I thrive on feedback, which I have always found incredibly motivating, so yes, I will do one about wigs for sure. I'm so glad it is helping, because when I started out I thought I was the only person in the world who felt like I did and there was no-one to help. If I had found somewhere like Susan's back then, it would all have been so much easier.

So yes, a piece on wigs will appear soon and I'm open to answering any questions on anything to do with these how tos, no matter how trivial or obvious the question may be. If anyone reading this is hesitating to ask something, don't think, just start typing :-)
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    The following users thanked this post: Lori Dee

TanyaG

Quote from: TracieCarolinaGirl on September 30, 2024, 11:11:49 PMFollicly challenged, and thus excited to find a fun wig.  I do have a fairly large head and am concerned about the wigs on Amazon fitting.  And then there 's the whole makeup thing 😆

I will cover the head size thing - I too have a largish head. My partner says it is a shame it isn't filled with anything useful :-)
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TanyaG

Quote from: TracieCarolinaGirl on September 30, 2024, 10:47:45 PMIt's a bit overwhelming fo me right now and this is the knowledge I was hoping to find when I registered. I don't see a lot of size options on the wigs on Amazon.
Quote from: TracieCarolinaGirl on September 30, 2024, 10:47:45 PMOh my gosh, y'all are so nice and helpful. Than you so much.  It's a bit overwhelming fo me right now and this is the knowledge I was hoping to find when I registered. I don't see a lot of size options on the wigs on Amazon.  I assume there must be sizing issues right?  So the wig shops are accommodating to men looking for female wigs?

I will get this one done today. Read it when it goes up and if I have left anything out or questions unanswered, reply and we will improve it between us all.
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TanyaG

Quote from: TracieCarolinaGirl on September 30, 2024, 07:58:55 PMThank you so much. I am so excited about buying my first pretty bra.
By the way, I remember buying my first one, what the brand was, even where I bought it, though the shop is long gone, I imagine. I was a significant life event, and my first step into a world I knew I belonged in, but couldn't quite imagine. May your memories be as sweet as mine.
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ChrissyRyan

Quote from: TracieCarolinaGirl on September 30, 2024, 11:11:49 PMI don't thing wig caps are an option for me lol.  Follicly challenged, and thus excited to find a fun wig.  I do have a fairly large head and am concerned about the wigs on Amazon fitting.  And then there 's the whole makeup thing 😆

All the wigs I have have their hair connected to a cap, sold together, and all of that goes over the head.  There may be such a thing as a separate wig cap but I have not bought one.  Also, if one has little head hair, then affixing the wig so it stays on your head may need to involve some glue or tape, but I know nothing about that!

Looks like Tanya will be starting a series on wigs.  We will look for it!

Chrissy
Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.  Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Help connect a person to someone that may be able to help that person.  Be brave, be strong.  A TRUE friend is a treasure.  Relationships are very important, people are important, and the sooner we all realize that the better off the world will be.  Try a little kindness.  Be generous with your time, energy, wisdom, and resources.   Inconvenience yourself to help someone.   I am a brown eyed, brown haired woman. 
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TracieCarolinaGirl

Tanya, do you wear forms exclusively?  If not, do you have different bras/sizes for when you wear forms and when you do not?
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