How to fill a bra for beginners part 4 - the Divine Athena plate

[TanyaG]

Breast plates are relatively new on the scene and it is hard to find out much about any them, with a distinct lack of consumer reviews that go into much detail. This is my experience of the Divine Athena plate.

The plate blends its breast forms into a sheet of thin but strong silicone, which covers the chest and is held there by its own stiction and by two thin flap extensions which run up to just over the shoulder, leaving the neck, the back and the sides of the chest free. On me the neckline of the plate runs close to the base of my neck if the forms are in the right place for my chest.

What size do I need?

The plate comes in two base chest fittings (SM and MD) and two cup sizes, 3 and 5 for the SM and 4 and 6 for the MD. There is no lack of options when buying, but getting the base size correct is critical.

Divine provide a sizing chart which allows you to use your underbust measurement and/or band size (see the first post in this series) to choose a plate. Be careful here, because the chart uses the +4 system for inch sized bands, so unless you habitually wear bras that are sized using +4, you risk ending up with completely the wrong size of plate. See the first post in this series for the low down on band sizes.

Unless you are familiar with the +4 system, it will be less confusing if you rely on your underbust measurement and disregard the band size shown on Divine's table. Read the post twice if you are in the UK: once because bra bands sized using the +4 system are rare in Britain and the EU, so you are unlikely to own any – and second, the because the UK cup size system has differences to the one shown, which is the US one.

I have a 35 inch underbust measurement and chose the MD-4 plate after exchanging a few emails with the store. The table and the advice suggested an SM plate might be a little too narrow, whilst an MD might be a little too wide, but as it happens the MD is okay on me. Just.

I suspect the MD would be a good fit on a 38 inch underbust, a little narrow on a 42 and too narrow on a 44, which is more or less what the table suggests. Going the other way, I would think it might be a little too wide on a 32 in underbust and very much so on a 30. Again, this is what the table suggests, and discuss with the store before you buy.

Plate width considerations

What do too wide and too narrow mean? The forms (as in the breasts built into the plate) run to the outer edge of the plate, so if your chest is too much narrower than the width of plate, then the inside surface of the outer edge of the forms will be hanging in free air. This doesn't matter if you're wearing a bra, because it can't be seen, but it will if you go braless and love tight tops, because that edge will be visible.

Contrarywise, if your chest is too wide for the plate, the forms will sit too close to the centreline, which will not only make finding a correctly fitting bra tricky, but may leave your nipples staring forward like a pair of headlights.

Women's nipples face slightly outward, something we internalise so thoroughly that when they don't, it triggers a 'Hold on! There's something not quite right here' response. Subconscious though such a response may be, perceptions run deep and depending on your nipple choice, the impression you create with too narrow a plate and no bra may not be what you want, because some of the nipple choices are prominent.

Width is an issue for another reason, because the forms – even in the 'natural breast feeling' plate – are firm. While the self-adhesive separate forms from Amoena or Amolux come close to the softness of a real breast, which allows them to conform to the chest wall and be a snug fit, the Athena plate forms are considerably firmer and don't conform to the curve of chest so easily.

Is this an issue for me? No, because the plate offers so many other freedoms I can happily overlook it.

Cup size

On me, the chart suggests that wearing an MD-4 will make me – ignoring the Divine conversion table band size because of the +4 thing – a 36D, but wearing the plate, my overbust measurement is 41 inches. 41 minus 36 is a five inch difference, suggesting the correct bra size for me should be a 36DD or a Euro 80E. Guess what, that's the size that fits.

The forms in the plate are a reasonably good fit for a 36 band wire and I suspect the sweet spot for them is a 36 or 38 (EU 80 to 85) band if you use bras that aren't sized using the +4 system. I've not seen an SM plate, but the Divine table suggests they fit a 30 to 32 band (EU 65 or 70) most comfortably.

Divine provide two volumes of form for each width of plate. This means the largest cup to suit a 48 inch underbust measurement is an A, while the smallest cup for a 28 inch underbust is a US system F. If you lie at either end of the scale, this is a restriction, but it offers more flexibility than many other plate systems.

Nipples

The Athena comes with nipples attached and when you order you can choose anything from a 45mm to an 80mm areola in no less than five different colours. A good rule is that areola width should be no greater than one third of a breast width, so I chose 60mm for the MD-4. On pale coloured plates (I chose French Vanilla, which is close to Amoena's 'ivory') any nipple colour darker than blush or rose will be visible through sheer bras, which could be good or bad depending on your take on things.

Divine's nipples are works of art in themselves, but be aware that the nipples themselves – as opposed to the circular areola surrounding them – can be prominent depending on the variety you choose (see the next post in this series for more info.) I like the look, but the nipples will tent up flimsy material and make an eye-catching impression in many tops or dresses unless you wear a bra with some kind of padding.

Commendably, Divine offer two colours of plate suitable for non-white skins along with two shades of nipple to suit. There are three white shades of plates and nipples.

Wearing the Divine plate

Putting the Athena plate on is more bother than using self-adhesive forms but in no way tedious. The product comes in a large box (which could be more rigid and I could have done with more subtle graphics) and lies on a moulded plastic form to which it will cling more or less depending on room temperature. To be very clear, the product box is shipped in a plain cardboard box, so you will be the first to see the artwork when you open it.

The side of the plate that goes to skin is gently sticky while the outward facing side is much less so and feels quite close in texture to real skin. Some really cheap silicone oozes oil, but the Athena plate shows no sign of that, which is as I would expect of such a well thought out product. To give an idea of how sticky the outward facing surface is, it offers just enough resistance for me to have to coax the neckline of a low cut bra into place over the swell of the form, but clothes flow naturally over it.

The easiest way to put the plate on is to gently pull the shoulder extensions free of the carrier, before loosening the rest of the form and flipping it over, although I guess you could lay the whole thing nipples down on a clean sheet and ease the moulded plastic away from the plate. Once the plate is free, you can stand in front of a mirror with the right boob in your right hand, the left in your left and place the bottom of the plate on your chest before easing the shoulder extensions into place.

After a little bit of practice this process takes no more than a couple of minutes, including any adjustments to get wrinkles out and dealing with silicone's marvellous talent at clinging to itself. I have a couple of moles I use as reference points for getting the position of the bottom of the plate right and the only other thing you will need to do is ensure that the cleavage lies vertically above your belly button, or you will be aiming your assets sideways.

If you want an idea of how thin the plate is, I keep trying to wipe off a spot on the neckline of mine, but it won't go because it's a mole showing through the silicone (call me slow, but even I will remember this eventually.) Yet despite its thinness the plate looks like it will last with reasonable care. The quality is excellent and other plates I've seen have usually been made with thicker, less good quality silicone.

The retail support staff told me the Athena plate is best worn with a bra or a tight top if adhesive isn't used and they are right. Otherwise, even with completely degreased skin, the heaviest part of my plate is liable to detach after a few seconds should I lean forward. It does this so reliably I rely on it to help remove the plate at the end of the day, yet wearing even the lightest bra the plate stays put well enough I can forget I am wearing it however much I lean forward. Even a lightly elasticated ruched bandeau top off the shoulder dress will keep the plate in place although I wouldn't be dancing in it.

Have I used adhesive with the plate? No, because I have never needed to, but adhesive can be used and if you wear the plate for extended periods or with clothes that expose the base of your neck and shoulders, you should consider it. Sites offering the form provide detailed advice about process if you choose to do so.

Cleavage

How does the cleavage look? Good. Depending on skin colour match, if you are exposing cleavage, someone who gets close in a good light will know you are wearing a plate, but even under the sheerest top with a high collar it would be hard to tell in any light. In a plunge or off the shoulder dress, people's eyes will more likely be drawn to the edge of the plate at the base of your neck or where it rests on your shoulders. If you are good with makeup, you could fix that, but if you're at home with a partner or friends, who cares?

Divine recommend cleaning their plate after each use, but I've cleaned mine about every third wear, because I don't get into a sweat often when I'm wearing it. Sample cleaner is provided, but I've used Amoena's because it is easier for me to get.

What would I change about the Divine plate?

If I had three wishes, my first would be to add three more plate widths into the range, so that the bases fitted underbust sizes of 30-32, 34-36, 38-40, 42-44 and 46-48. Why? Fitting would be so easy. All the same, although each plate is custom made on order, this would mean designing and making more moulds, which may not be financially realistic.

My second wish would be to offer softer forms than the ones currently provided. Right now, even the 'natural feeling' version plate is extremely firm compared to a real breast. There are pros and cons to this because it is fine to wear the plate 24/7 and overnight wear might not be possible if softer forms were used. The forms aren't hard, but they are much firmer than a real breast – enough that if someone knocked against you I think they might pick up on it. Someone who felt a form through your clothes or pressed against you definitely would.

My final wish would be to add a third cup size to each width of plate and adjust the width of the breasts to fit the corresponding radius of bra wire that goes with each band size. The combination would create a choice between being say a C, a DD and for the truly out to impress, something close a UK F – with cup sizes which were consistent for each width of plate.

True, if all of my wishes were granted, that would mean Divine making 15 different moulds, but in return, their customers would be able to say, 'I wear a UK 36C bra, or an EU 80C one' and receive a plate which provided a near perfect fit. I would happily pay extra for that because the product is so good. With each plate width covering a four inch spread of underbust measurements, a buyer with an underbust of say 37 inches could go for a 34-36 C plate or a 38-40 C plate with confidence they could wear either a 38B or a 38C bra depending on which plate they chose. This would work because bra wire diameters and the spacing of cups are flexible enough to allow either solution to be viable across two neighbouring band sizes.

Icing on the cake? If Divine amended their conversion table to include band sizes which do not follow the +4 system (more or less unknown in UK bras these days and seemingly sunsetting for US brands) and made it clearer the cup sizes given follow the US system. Adding in EU band sizes would be peachy.

Conclusions

If Divine granted my first and third wishes, they would make this my perfect plate. Even without that, the ability to wear any bra is enough of a selling point to make the Athena my unqualified favourite right now. With it on, it is possible to wear any kind of bra you want. Strapless? Fine. Corset? Be my guest. Plunge? How low do you want to go? Balconette? No issue. Everything I have tried works.

Since Divine have a history of developing their products, I can't wait to see what they do next. If I can lay my hands on an SM plate, I will do so and update this post.

[ChrissyRyan]

Another interesting, in depth writing, this is.  Thank you for your informative posting.

[TanyaG]

I was going to add at least one image showing the plate on a plastic shop window style model but I can't work out if that is okay under the rules here?

[TanyaG]

More on the Divine Athena plate and my Breast Form Store purchase experience.

After four months of use of the first Athena I bought it deserves unqualified praise as a quality product, but after ordering a second plate, I've realised the first one I was sent wan't been made to the spec I ordered. The second has a major and two minor faults which I hope are in the process of being dealt with.

I had no way of knowing at the time, because I didn't have another plate for comparison, but the first Athena I was sent was made with the 'implant feeling' forms instead of the 'natural breast' feel forms ordered. So my comments about the firmness of the breast forms in my first post are not correct.

How did I end up with the incorrect spec of product first time around?

The product box doesn't specify which type of forms the Athena is made with and since the forms are custom made to order (there are 25 different combinations of nipple colour and size alone) this is a surprising error. If the label had recorded the Athena had been made with firm forms, I would have spotted it on delivery. But the label doesn't say anything about the forms other than their size (the plate is a medium 4.)

Do I regret ordering the first Athena now? No, because I can live with the firmness and the plate is a quality product with a nice smooth surface free of noticeable flaws. The French vanilla shade is a good match for my skin and the Athena plays nice with almost every bra I've tried as long as the cup size is right.

The Breast Form Store, who supplied it, promote the product as being 'perfect for showing lots of cleavage,' which is very much true for my first Athena, because its forms fit into the cups of a Gossard superboost lace bra in a 36DD like they were made for it.

No other phrase suits the experience, other than Rolls Royce nice.

My second Athena plate...

Now for the not so good part of the experience, although this is still playing out as I write, so I have no idea whether it will end up well or not. I loved the first plate so much I ordered another, once again with the 'soft' forms, only this time with slightly lighter nipples.

This was not a lightly taken decision.

If you haven't checked out the prices, if I was in the US the Athena would be about $515 before despatch, but in the UK it worked out at $673 with the nipple set and colour I chose.

This is a premium price product, costing about half the average weekly wage in the US. Gulp.

After a six week wait, my second Athena was delivered. After opening the box and removing the packaging (which isn't bad, though the despatch box ideally should be heavier duty) the first thing to meet my eye was a prominent fault on the form at ten o'clock where the left form merges into the plate at the upper part of the cleavage.

This isn't one of those flaws which is only visible in a certain light, it is clearly visible in any light and in the worst place you can imagine. The fault is just over 10mm long and 6mm wide and shows as a different colour to the surrounding area. If you look at it closely, there are air bubbles within the silicone of the fault and although I've no idea how the plate was made, I'm guessing a larger air bubble was trapped when the mix was poured into the mould. It got missed and this was the result.



With the Athena on its moulded support in the box, the fault had air trapped behind it, making it look like a blister, but with the air gone it became wrinkled. I can't decide which state is the more noticeable, but either way, the flaw is visible from many feet away.

If you turn the form over the fault lies at the apex of a deep dip in the silicone, with the surface 'skin' there reduced to a third the thickness of the surrounding plate. In the area where the forms join the flat surface of the plate, the radius makes the silicone look more transparent and the flaw is thinner than that part of the plate again, so wow, does it stand out.

This is the last thing you would expect to see on a product that cost as much, but that isn't all, because there are two other lesser faults on the plate where the silicone isn't smooth. By comparison the first plate was flawless, allowing for having the wrong consistency forms for the spec.

So, despite the web literature promoting the plate as 'perfect for showing lots of cleavage' my second purchase is only fit for wearing under concealing clothing. Even then, I lack confidence the fault will last out the warranty period because of the marked thinning of the silicone there and the bubbles within it.

Right now, the Breast Form Store staff have sent photos to the manufacturer for comment, but with the store shut for the weekend I'm not expecting to hear anything until earliest Monday, which will be six days from raising my concern.

Now for the good things about this second Athena plate. It definitely has the 'natural feeling' forms and they feel about as close to real breasts as it is possible to get with silicone. The feel is comparable with Amoena breast forms, which have a thin shell over liquid centres. Getting close to those is a serious achievement.

If only it were in good shape, this would be a very, very, very nice plate.

My Breast Form Store buying experience?

To summarise my experience of buying two Athena plates and dealing with the store, the first Athena I was sent was built to the wrong spec, while the second has a defect big enough to make the plate incompatible with the repeated claim in the sales literature that it is 'perfect for showing lots of cleavage'.

I've dealt with the BF store for years and always had good service from them in the past, so my expectation is that despite being short staffed right now, they'll organise a replacement. This is one of those faults you can't wish away but if it wasn't there, I'd be even happier with this Athena than I am with my first one. I want to be able to write enthusiastically about it, but the second isn't in a state to be enthusiastic about, or even to wear.

So I'll keep you posted about how this plays out.

Some more thoughts about wearing Athena plates.

There's a trick to putting them on, because the shape of your chest governs the fit and if the nipples don't lie level, the difference will be really noticeable. Worse, you will only notice they aren't level when fully dressed and you'll have to get naked again to fix it. It helps to learn the landmarks on your chest and to be aware most of us don't stand level when we are holding something in front of us.

I put the plate on by hunching my shoulders forward, dropping my right one and pressing the forms onto my chest. Then I flip the plate up, before easing the shoulder extensions into position. If you watched a video of this, you'd be LMAO, but it works and I even have muscle memory for it now.

Wearing a bra or a close fitting top, I don't need to use adhesive, but the one place the Athena tends to pull loose is below the centre of the neck, especially if I reach around with say my right arm towards the left, with the forearm close to my body. My solution for this when wearing a cleavage revealing top is to wear a broad chain necklace and for me, one that 17 inches (43 cm) with the clasp hooked up and closed is perfect.

The BF Store sells a variety of chokers, but nothing beats a broad chain for concealing that edge and lightly pressing it down. I think the store should sell some, because I got mine for about $30.

How visible is the plate under a revealing top?

In daylight, I doubt you'd pass unless the silicone colour was a particularly close match for your skin and you could also conceal the edge of the Athena with makeup. At night, I think it's entirely possible, especially somewhere like a club where the lighting is moody.

How about clothes with the Athena plate?

It looks good under almost anything, but you still have to get past what to do about the edge of the Athena where it runs around the base of the neck and about the shoulder extensions if those areas aren't covered.

If you wear say a bandeau dress, or one with thin shoulder straps, the shoulder extensions will be exposed. Not an issue around the house if your partner is good with it, but people in the street will spot them straight away. On the other hand, if you wear a top or a dress where the neckline comes up high at the back of the neck, then Athena's shoulder extensions will be hidden where they pass over your shoulders.

The BF store say the plate 'looks great with soft cup, underwire, and demi cup bras' all of which are true. As I commented above, the forms on my medium 4 size Athena are a perfect match for the wire of a Gossard Superboost lace bra in 36DD, while in bras with a more open wire like say the Gossard VIP Taboo, or the same company's Fleur de Nuit balcony bra, I'm a 36D. On my chest the forms fit the cups of most of the Freya range in a 36DD, though I'm a 36D in many Pour Moi bras. In most but not all Empreinte I am a 36D, but in most PrimaDonna I'm a 36DD.

After the first post I made I found the reason the BF Store uses the +4 band sizing system for the Athena plate is they use +4 for the bras they sell, so it's rational. It doesn't help when you are sourcing bras anywhere else because +4 is becoming increasingly uncommon, so don't forget that.

How about long term Athena plate wear?

Because of the product issues, I haven't worn the second plate yet, but in autumn and winter temperatures in the UK, I've been able to wear the first plate upward of twelve hours a day without issues. Under a bra it doesn't shift and I've done everything from play video games to dance while wearing it. Because much of the weight of the forms is taken up by the rest of the plate, the Athena is more comfortable to wear than Amoena forms with similar cup sizes. This is with the firmer consistency form plate, which has quite heavy forms compared to Amoena ones of a similar size and it's a big plus.

Perspiration is an issue under an Athena because the plate covers the entire front of the chest. That means the sweat can't escape and if you get prickly heat this could be a problem. Once we get warmer temperatures, I'll report back on this one.

How well does the Athena mould to the body?

Everything depends on the shape of your chest, but with a correctly fitted plate, the forms on the 'implant' feel version don't mould perfectly to curve of my chest at the outside edge. Under a bra this isn't visible, though it might be if I went braless under a tight white top.

One modification I would make is to push the curve around the base of the neck about an inch lower. Right now it falls on the collar bones with the plate in the correct position and the end result is that the plate doesn't lie well across the jugular notch, i.e. the gap between them. A slightly lower cut would avoid that.

I haven't been able to wear the 'natural' feel plate yet because of the faults, but having felt the forms, they are so soft they should mould to the shape of the chest without any issues. I can't emphasise how real they feel, the manufacturer has done a remarkable job. There isn't another plate with a feel like it at any price.

Should I buy the 'implant' or the 'natural' version of the plate?

Again, I haven't been able to wear the natural version, so I'll report back. However, if you value cleavage over any other factor, the implant version is for you. Be aware that the forms are set roughly an inch and a half apart at rest and if they are pushed closer together than about an inch, the flat area of the plate between them tends to wrinkle up. Which in turn means that you won't be able to wear a 'slit to the gore of your push up bra' top with the forms touching together without some adjustments. You can get close though.

The implant version forms are fuller above the nipple line than a real breast in a push up bra and my preference would be to reduce that fullness some. However, as the name suggests, they duplicate well the look of breasts with an implants, which are almost always fuller above the nipple than natural breasts. So it depends on the look you're after.

The one caveat I have with the Athena plate right now is that from my personal experience, it is possible there's a quality control issue with this expensive product. I have two plates, one of which I'm fine with, but would have had replaced if I'd known because it wasn't made to my spec, and another which is made to my spec, but was despatched with show stopping flaws. So while I could just have been extremely unlucky  a 100% 'not right' rate isn't reassuring.

[Mandy Spencer]

Great review - so comprehensive - I'll look into it - getting my breasts right is a work in progress..

[TanyaG]

Hi Mandy, lots of hugs. The Athena plates are awesome if you get a good one, basically the best there is out there. I'd give them an unqualified recommendation if it wasn't for my experience of their iffy quality control.

I'm waiting for a response about the defects in the second plate right now, but with a product sold at that price point - especially one that is custom built - I would expect a 'That's way below our standards, we're sorry that slipped through, we'll sort out a replacement immediately,' but I'm getting a much more equivocal response right now. This might all change next week, but I was unprepared for the initial response from the BF Store. Their customer team dodged any engagement about having sent me the first plate with firm forms instead of the natural feel ones and now this... a two out of two fail on consecutive orders isn't encouraging!

But we shall see. I've come across this before with high value bespoke items sold by small businesses. If an item has a fault, the temptation is to despatch it with crossed fingers hoping putting up enough resistance to a return will lead to the customer writing it off to experience. All of my prior experience of the BF Store is they have the integrity not to do that, but who knows how this will turn out? The switchboard message says they are short staffed right now too, which will be difficult for them, but that's for them to take up with management, I think. One thing I will caution about dealing with them is that while they always respond to emails, they've seldom been outstanding at quick replies and more often they're like a couple of working days. But they have always got back eventually.

TBH I'm so well disposed toward the BF store and to Divine for designing and making these plates in the first place that if they said, 'Okay, let's treat this as a second, what about half price? I'd just pay them and order another as well, because the second plate will work under clothes. I just have my doubts the biggest flaw will last because it is so thin and it's not fit to be seen with cleavage exposed. Which is what all of their product literature is about.

Whatever, if you can get a good one, then depending on what you want, the Athena with 'natural' forms is in a league of its own. I'll keep posting until this sorts out one way or another so others can learn from how it turns out and make their own judgments. Thanks so much for the response!

[TanyaG]

This is more of an attempt to see if I can post an image here than anything else, so fingers crossed!

[TanyaG]

Yay! It worked.

This is the biggest flaw on the second Athena I was sent. There are a couple others, but neither as show stopping as this.

Incidentally, you can see some 'streaking' above the right form (the curve of the top of which is at the left side of the pic, These are present on my other Athena and are visible when the plate is on the form, but not when I'm wearing it, so if you get a plate with these on, don't worry about them.

But the semi heart-shaped area you can see just right of image center stands out so much it would be as obvious when wearing the form as it is in this photo. More so because it is in such a bad place.

I would stress that in all other respects, the build quality of the Athena is so good it doesn't have any competitors unless you have very specific requirements.

[TanyaG]

For anyone reading this to get an idea of what the Divine Athena is like and a feel of the level of service the Breast Form Store provide, the staff at the store have been in touch again to say the photos have been sent to the artists who make the Athena for them to decide whether the quality is acceptable or not.

It's a huge plus the BF Store has taken this on and is staying in touch, which I very much appreciate because the staff are so nice. But I find it a little alarming that the people who manufactured and despatched my second Athena plate (and who sent me my first one with the wrong consistency forms) have been called in to arbitrate.

After all, these were the people who despatched the product with the eye catching fault you can see in the pic, but maybe they were pushed for time when they packed it? Whatever, this is the seventh day from sending my first email to the BF Store and the poor artists are snowed up, so I'm told there's going to be another delay before a decision is reached.

To give an idea of the timeline of ordering an Athena if you are based in the UK or Europe, I made first payment 16th December and received the second plate in 27th January. Which means in another week close to two months will have passed since placing my order. Even in the US the delay seems to be at least a month between ordering and delivery, because each Athena is built to customer spec.

A tip about wearing an Athena is it pays to experiment with how high the neckline of the plate lies relative to the base of your neck. If you can align the two well enough at the front, the edge of the plate isn't particularly obvious there and a necklace over it will camouflage it from the front, if not at the back.

Another tip is it pays to give the Athena a gentle wash every time you wear it, because it makes it easier to wear and handle. To begin with I was sure less frequent washing was appropriate, but I've changed my mind and it only takes five minutes. Afterward I just lay the Athena face down on a doubled up towel and let it dry naturally.

[Natali400]

I've found a great trick that works for me

I use strapless bras and add silicone bra pads for extra lift and shape. Then, I layer a full-figure bra on top. The combination looks amazing and gives me the support and confidence I need!"

[TanyaG]

Great idea and not an expensive one either. I remember my first experiments which were a long time ago now. A girlfriend, she was amazing, used to dress me up in her room. I remember her filling stockings with bird seed and stuffing my bra cups with them. It was hilarious but we both knew how I was even if the words didn't exist to describe it back then.

Okay... The snowstorm must be ongoing because I haven't heard back from the BF Store about the second Athena I ordered.

'Implant feel' forms versus 'natural feel' forms

Something I haven't raised with the BF Store yet is the difference in price between the 'natural' feeling forms I ordered and paid for with the first plate and the 'implant' feel ones in the product I received. This stands at over £100 (around $125). In other words, the first Athena I received wasn't built to my spec, but I was charged as if it was and so overpaid by more than a hundred dollars. That's a slice of cash.

The only reason I know the first plate has the cheaper 'implant feel' forms in it instead of the more expensive 'natural feel' forms is because of the second Athena I was sent. Defective though it may be, the second plate was built with the correct forms. Once you have felt the difference between the two, there is no way you could mistake one for the other, so I can't begin to imagine how the artists could have made the first plate with the wrong forms, short of failing to read the order.

When I reviewed my first Athena, I commented on how firm the forms were compared to what I was expecting, but the penny didn't drop with me that an error had been made. Instead, I assumed the feel of the forms was the nearest the artists who make them could get to the feel of a natural breast while building a plate that was robust enough to be worn overnight.

How could you tell if something similar happens to you?

With both Athenas in front of me, the 'implant feel' forms resist pressure. If I squeeze the front toward the back on an MD-4 plate with 'implant' feel forms between a finger and thumb, it's difficult to achieve more than half an inch of give. With the 'natural feel' forms, if I do the same thing, my fingertips come within what feels like half an inch of each other.

The natural feel forms are as squishy as a real breast and under clothes, if someone brushed against you, I don't think they'd know. The implant feel forms would compress a little, but if it was more than the briefest of contacts, the other person would realise something was up.

Why would anyone buy the 'implant feel' forms?

The £100 saving can't be ignored, but I can see performers getting hooked on the appearance of the implant feel forms. They keep their shape without any need for a bra and if you used adhesive, you could wear the least supportive top with them. The upper part of the 'implant feel' forms is noticeably full which is the look many drag artists adore, so this type are built for them.

Being considerably more rigid than the natural feel forms, a plate made with the implant feel forms is somewhat easier to handle too, because the softer forms can be like fielding a jelly with a mind of its own based on the small amount of experience I've had of holding them for photographs. The natural feel forms will mould to the chest wall a lot better than the implant feel ones do as well.

But I still haven't got to wear the second plate because I'm still waiting for the BF Store to get back to me.

[TanyaG]

I'm still waiting for the people who made my second Athena plate to get back to the Breast Form Store, which means it's ten days since I got in touch with the store about a return and eleven since I received the product, Having been impressed with their service in the past, I'm less so now, because if it isn't sorted by tomorrow, they're closed over the weekend.

In the meanwhile I've taken some pics to show the difference between the 'implant feel' Athena forms here:



And the 'natural feel' forms below.



The white circle shows how well (or not) the form moulds to the plastic support it is supplied with and as you can see, the implant feel form doesn't mould as well as the natural feel form does. You can see how much bigger the gap is with the 'implant feel' forms. This mirrors what happens on the chest, so with a correctly fitted plate, you can expect the outside of the implant feel forms not to conform to your skin as well as natural feel forms. It doesn't make much difference if you are wearing a bra, but the soft forms will be a better fit.

What I would like most of all is the chance to try on an Athena with soft forms and report back, but at this rate it'll be Christmas before this saga is sorted out and I can do that!

[TanyaG]

To keep everyone posted and give an idea about what dealing with the BF Store is like, here is a timeline for my order for a second Athena plate and customer service response:

16 December, custom Athena order placed
14 January, final payment taken
21 January, order shipped
28 January, arrived with me

That's all good, this was a custom product, after all.

29 January - first email and phone call to store
30 January - first response from store (suggesting the defect was 'just how it's adhering to the cradle' and that the artists would be asked to review it)
31 January - further photos from me to show that no, this isn't just the way the Athena is adhering to the cradle, it's even more obvious with it off the cradle.
4 February - reply from BF Store to say artists are currently closed due to bad weather (with which I empathise.)
7 February - reminder from me that I was billed for my first Athena as if it was fitted with soft forms when it was supplied with the implant feel ones which are circa $125 cheaper...

With the BF Store closed over the weekend, assuming the artists can get to work (what happened to email?) the earliest I will get feedback will be afternoon tomorrow, my time, twelve days from my sending the first email. Having spent a season in northern BC I know what Canadian weather can be like, but even if they're out in the boonies like I was, email and the phone network still function out there, even with six feet of snow.

This is not so good, given the premium price charged for a custom Athena and the smack you in the eye nature of the main defect. I'll leave you to make your own judgment about the quality of the BF Store service based on the timeline and the photos I've posted of the defect.

And it's incredibly frustrating, because the Athena is such an outstanding solution when the QC doesn't fall apart as it has here. By comparison, I've never had an Amazon seller do anything other than send a replacement based on photographic evidence of the sort I've supplied and we all know what Amazon service can be like.

Given my previous good experience of the BF Store, this has completely caught me out, but while I know they're short staffed right now, the delay is sapping my confidence in them. But let's see, they have been so good and very understanding in the past. Which is why I've kept dealing with them and why I'm being patient now, we need stores like them.

[TanyaG]

While I'm waiting for the bad weather stopping the BF Store's artists responding to my complaints and photos of my second Athena, I've been looking at first one with a critical eye (that's the one they sent with the wrong consistency of forms...) and despite thinking it's the best thing since sliced bread, there are a couple of improvements I would make.

1. Offer an option to have the centre of the neckline about an inch and a half or even two inches lower

I've already mentioned this, but as the neckline is formed now, with the forms in the right place on my chest, the lowest point of the neckline of the Athena falls between the inner ends of my collarbones. There is a hollow here and unless I use adhesive, adhesion is poor.

But even if I use adhesive, wrinkles form in the silicone should I reach with my left arm over toward my right and vice versa.

The Athena web page makes it clear this part of the design is intentional, saying the 'high-neck design sits at the collarbones, seamlessly blending with the body.' In practice, it only does that in some positions and in practice, you are left with an edge you have to conceal with a necklace or makeup with a low cut top. The big issue here is the edge isn't that noticeable until it wrinkles and comes loose from the skin, when it really is noticeable.

Makeup sounds great until you realise you won't be using it with anything white on top because the two do not mix. Or rather, they do mix :-)

If the neckline was a little lower, the wrinkles would be much less likely to form. Given the area of the Athena adhering to the chest wall above the forms is so great, I can't see this impacting on the plate's natural ability to cling on. The Athena doesn't form ripples over the front of my chest when I move my arms, instead the problem is confined to the jugular notch itself.

With a lower cut the neckline would also fall below the neck of many items of clothing and the availability of multi-strand necklaces that hang an inch below the collarbones is a lot better than ones that fall on them!

2. Making the shape of the lower part of the forms conform better to a bra wire

The BF Store Athena page says the plate 'pairs beautifully with, soft cup, underwire, and demi cup bras.' This is 95% true, except the curve of the bottom of the forms where they meet the skin follows more of a flattened oval than the rounded shape of a breast (even one with an implant).

The wires on most bras are hemi-circular, although a few are oval, but the shape of the rest of the form above the bottom radius fits well into a circular wire cup, leaving a slightly odd situation, where there will often be a gap between the lowest point of each form where it touches the chest wall and the wire of the bra beneath it. Fixing it would involve reshaping the form slightly, but the aesthetic benefit would be worth it, given what the Athena costs.

I cannot comment on how well the 'natural feel' forms work with a wired bra because I can't wear the thing until the BF Store get back to me. I was looking forward to wearing so much I can't begin to describe how disappointed I've been by the quality of the second Athena and the lengthy delay I've experienced getting anything more than a 'We're looking into this,' response.

Custom options when you order

One thing I haven't mentioned is that for about $110 US extra the artists will add skin texture, freckles, and veins. I wouldn't dare ask for this unless I was assured their quality control has been fixed, because by the time you've chosen the natural feel forms and a different nipple size to the standard (which looks small on the medium 4 forms) you're already looking at close to £600 for an Athena ordered in the UK, which is just under $750. Adding customisation would push that well over $800. Ouch!

[TanyaG]

Things have moved on and in a good way. Yesterday I emailed the BF Store again (this is the US/Canada end of the operation) to ask about progress and to point out two weeks had passed since sending my first email complaining about the quality of the Athena.

But I also emailed the European end of the BF Store operation. This was after their closing time, but to my amazement, their staff got straight back to me and said they'd get in contact with the US side. Today the Euro store people were back in touch first thing and had a replacement sorted in half a dozen emails, despite the fact that the person I was communicating with was on a train at the time!

This is more like the BF Store service I'm used to and I've been told to bin the defective 'natural feel' form Athena while I wait for its replacement, but I'm going to try it on one time before I do, so I can report back on the differences between it and the 'implant feel' version I already have.

[TanyaG]

Now I've had a chance to try on the Athena with the natural feel forms before it goes in the trash, here are my thoughts.

I will now wait for its replacement to arrive in about six weeks, I guess.

First off, the Athena plates aren't just the best out there, they are so good they effectively don't have any rivals as long as you can afford them. The good news is that the BF store have them on offer from time to time and if you live in the US I've seen them on sale for as low as $350. That's for an implant feel plate with a choice of four skin tones and no customisation.

If you go for a natural feel form Athena with every custom option ticked, you are looking at $900 and at this price, the US site includes matching the colour of the silicone to your own skin. That is not an option available in the UK, although that may be an oversight. I have not seen an Athena with custom textures but if the replacement plate arrives in good shape, I might risk a purchase.

What is the 'natural feel' breast form Athena like to wear?

I'm going to call this the NF Athena to save my fingers. Out the box, the most obvious difference between the NF plate and the implant feel (IF)  plate is the former is a bitch to handle :-) The NF forms have the consistency of firm jelly and the Athena is so floppy and so keen to stick to itself I had to more or less subdue it to get it on. The stiffer forms in the IF plate make it 100% easier to handle and with practice you can have it on and settled in the right place in less time than it takes to type this sentence. Not so the NF Athena!

The method I settled on was to lay the Athena on the bed nipples down, cup the forms in my hands, pick it up with the shoulder extensions dangling down and press the forms onto my chest. Then I flipped the shoulder extensions up into place. The result? A mess. It took another minute or so to coax the forms into their natural shape and another after that to get the Athena settled smoothly around my neckline and shoulders.

This process is most challenging when a plate is new because the silicone is super sticky then. A few wears and washes down the line and I'm expecting it to be less of a fight. Hoping, anyways. But that's for when the replacement arrives because the one I had is going into recycling.

How do the 'natural' forms look and feel when the Athena is on?

In a word, natural. With the plate on the forms lose some of the jelly-like feel they have in the box because they are anchored against the chest wall, but they do feel like real breasts. From front on and in profile they have a more natural shape than the implant feel forms, though that's more a question of the look you prefer than anything else.

I feel the IF Athena forms are too full above the nipple, but to be fair, that's how real breasts look when a surgeon has used an implant one size larger than wisdom dictates. The NF forms are somewhat less full above the nipple, but while my preference would still be to take a little of that fullness out so the part of the form above the nipple wasn't quite as convex and was closer to a straight line in profile without a push up bra. But these are minor quibbles, because this is a superb product.

How do the 'natural' forms work with clothes?

They sit much better into most bras. The implant feel forms are so firm bras can't shape them, but the natural feel forms flow more and fill bras better. In particular, the lower curve of the natural forms will fit a wire in a way the implant forms won't, assuming you have the natural forms set on right.

That's not to say the implant forms aren't okay, they are, but despite the extra time to put the natural form Athena on, I like the look and feel it brings much more. Being so much softer, the forms 'drape' better, or to put it less elegantly, they droop enough to give the lower pole of the form a more natural profile than the IF ones can.

Worn under tight clothing (which you would need to keep an Athena on if you went braless and didn't rely on adhesive) the NF forms are less gravity defying than their IF counterparts. You still can't achieve a tightly pressed together cleavage easily, because the forms sit slightly further apart than real breasts. Which is not to say it isn't impossible, just there's about an inch of silicone separating the forms and if you press them together, you'll force a fold into it and the gore of your bra will be forced off your chest.

If I was in charge of designing the Athena, in my next gen version, I would reduce the distance between the forms some as well as lowering the centre of the neckline an inch to an inch and a half to avoid the wrinkle you get there. I'd also ditch the box artwork, which I like less and less every time I see it and to save shipping costs and ease storage, I'd halve the height of the box that holds the forms. Why is it so tall? I'd also ship the Athena in a much stronger outer box because both of the ones I have arrived with damaged packaging.

Once again, these are in the 'desirable' not 'essential' category of suggestions. There's little to find fault with concerning either the IF or the NF Athena and if it wasn't for the frustration of having to wait two weeks for the Breast Form Store to deal with an obvious defect, I'd be a happy bunny. As it is, my confidence in the BF Store is restored, but I'd need assurances the artists who make the plates are going to pay more attention to quality control in future if I was going to buy a fully customised plate. The first Athena they sent me had the wrong forms and the second one had a defect you could see a mile away.

[Lori Dee]

@TanyaG

Thank you for this series! Your detailed description, suggestions, and advice are an invaluable asset to our readers. Please keep up the good work!

[TanyaG]

What's the situation if I post some pictures of the Athena plates, Lori? They would be resting on their plastic supports, but the one thing that has stayed my hand until now has been that they have nipples on, although obvs they are artificial ones! Would that be OK with the site rules?

[Lori Dee]

What's the situation if I post some pictures of the Athena plates, Lori? They would be resting on their plastic supports, but the one thing that has stayed my hand until now has been that they have nipples on, although obvs they are artificial ones! Would that be OK with the site rules?

I think it would be okay because they are prosthetic. But, as one of the youngest Moderators here, I would like to defer to our Forum Administrator, Danielle. I'll tag her in this post so she can respond directly. Thanks for asking first.

@Northern Star Girl

[TanyaG]

Thank you for this series! Your detailed description, suggestions, and advice are an invaluable asset to our readers. Please keep up the good work!

Thank you for the feedback Lori. By the way, have you seen how many views this post has had now?