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How many trans people are there out there?

Started by TanyaG, October 12, 2024, 03:48:04 AM

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TanyaG

The UK press went into a state of shock last year when the Office for National Statistics (ONS) revealed that in the 2021 census, over a quarter of a million people had answered 'no' to the question, 'Is the gender you identify with the same as your sex registered at birth?' That would put the percentage of the nation's trans people at 0.5%, or one in two hundred.

All kinds of objections were raised, mostly on the grounds people must have misunderstood the question because English was not their first language, but perhaps because the usual suspects were looking for an excuse to bury the number. Conservatives find it inconvenient.

In the end, the ONS backed off, so 0.5% is no longer an 'accredited official statistic', but at the same time the ONS pointed out, 'the estimates are considered broadly in line with other data on gender identity.' In other words, while no longer stamped with the brand of  official truth, that half a percent is in line with other sources the ONS has checked.

Two of the 'other sources of data' are likely to have been the CDC's Behaviour Risk Factor Surveillance System (BRFSS) and Youth Risk Behavior Survey (YRBS) in the US. Using pooled data, 0.6% of Americans over the age of 13 identify as trans.

What is really interesting is the US 2021-2022 census data, which provides a deeper analysis of what is going on. 5.6% of generation Z adults identified as transgender, along with 2.4% of millennials and 1.5% of gen X.

Boomers? We're at 0.25%. Plot those points against age and you have a trend.

Unless this is a blip – which seems unlikely given how referral patterns have been rising so steeply this past decade – transgender people could potentially become ten times more visible. Notice I am not saying 'more numerous'. There's a case for saying we've always been there in greater numbers than official statistics have shown, but have been keeping our heads down because of intense discrimination.

The oldest members of gen Z will have been nine in 2014 when the leap in trans referral rates began and the youngest are fifteen now, but as boomers and the generations before them age out, all the signs are the situation is changing fast. If that 5.6% figure holds, trans people will become as common as people who identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual.

Why is this happening? One line of thought is something is causing people who didn't previously identify as being trans to begin doing so, providing fertile ground for conspiracy theorists, but there are clues it lies in something mundane – a change in attitudes.

Gen Z are the first generation amongst whom a majority have agreed male and female are not the only genders.

If you don't believe in something, then you can't identify with it, so this change in attitudes may also account for the sudden surge in non-binary people as gen Z matures. In other words, people who would have been fearful of identifying as trans in the past have become more relaxed about doing so now. Perhaps  non-binary folk may always have been there, but only now can see themselves for who they are.

If all of that is so, we aren't looking at a blip and the data may be telling us that as scripts around gender loosen, so are more people accepting they are trans along with gender lying not on a polar scale, but somewhere along a continuum.

And if that is the case, then core scripts are being rewritten.

One of the reasons I think this may be happening is that fifteen years ago, trans people assigned male at birth (AMAB) outnumbered people assigned female at birth (AFAB) by two to one. Now it is the other way around. This is a dramatic swing, about which there is much speculation in the Cass report.

Looking at the data it is tempting to suggest the growth in AFAB referrals is at least in part driven by the acceptance of non-binary gender incongruence by gen Z, because right now, the best figures we have suggest the majority of non-binary trans people are AFAB. We should do our very best to support them, because although conservatives are struggling to work out what non-binary means, their knee-jerk response has been to double down on supporting binary gender stereotypes.

There are two messages to take home. First, you are not alone and second, the membership of Susan's may be very different in a few years' time.

darilee

Darilee

Orchiectomy = 04/20/2021
               HRT =04/01/2021
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Sephirah

Quote from: TanyaG on October 12, 2024, 03:48:04 AMThe UK press went into a state of shock last year when the Office for National Statistics (ONS) revealed that in the 2021 census, over a quarter of a million people had answered 'no' to the question, 'Is the gender you identify with the same as your sex registered at birth?' That would put the percentage of the nation's trans people at 0.5%, or one in two hundred.

And those were only the people brave enough to answer that on an official looking form. I suspect the number may be quite a bit higher.

The world is different now. In spite of everyone trying to stay in their little bubble... there is more and more of an upswell of "You choose you". More than there's ever been. It's a kind of evolution, even though the monkeys might not see it that way. The world moves on no matter how much you might not want it to. Understanding changes. It has to. Otherwise the world would still be flat, and we'd all still be living in caves thinking the God of Thunder made lightning.

Something is only right until it isn't.
Natura nihil frustra facit.

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." ~ Buddha.

If you're dealing with self esteem issues, maybe click here. There may be something you find useful. :)
Above all... remember: you are beautiful, you are valuable, and you have a shining spark of magnificence within you. Don't let anyone take that from you. Embrace who you are. <3
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SoupSarah

Whaaaaaaaat? The god of Thunder does not make lightening??  THEN who does?? eh, eh? answer that!

and, btw - I was one of those 0.5% who answered in the cencus that.. Usual stats seem to indicate about 1-2% of any population is gender incongruent, which is different from transgender which is different from transsexual. Again, you need to make sure you are counting apples with apples when pulling from different surveys.. The transgender population will always be the largest (estimates around 5% vary slightly) and then sub-divisions within that obviously make up a smaller percentage. I saw the 0.5% figure from the census and thought that is about right for the transsexual population of the UK, studies in Sweden and Netherlands seem to back that up.. and yet, for such a small minority, we do take up a HUGE amount of column inches - more than our fair share?
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Sephirah

Quote from: SoupSarah on October 12, 2024, 04:17:16 PMWhaaaaaaaat? The god of Thunder does not make lightening??  THEN who does?? eh, eh? answer that!

It's clearly the static discharge from the alien spacecraft passing in close proximity to each other in the atmosphere. Everyone knows this! ;)
Natura nihil frustra facit.

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." ~ Buddha.

If you're dealing with self esteem issues, maybe click here. There may be something you find useful. :)
Above all... remember: you are beautiful, you are valuable, and you have a shining spark of magnificence within you. Don't let anyone take that from you. Embrace who you are. <3
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Mariah

The shift is no doubt do to access and knowledge that is more widely available now. The resources of today allow people a better shot at figuring things out and access to resources my generation just didn't have. Now having said that, how info is used by our governments does sometimes result in many of us not answering that question officially. I would agree the number is certainly higher than surveys indication. Hugs

Mariah
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Sephirah

Quote from: Mariah on October 12, 2024, 04:52:31 PMThe shift is no doubt do to access and knowledge that is more widely available now. The resources of today allow people a better shot at figuring things out and access to resources my generation just didn't have. Now having said that, how info is used by our governments does sometimes result in many of us not answering that question officially. I would agree the number is certainly higher than surveys indication. Hugs

Mariah

I agree. And knowledge is never a bad thing in and of itself. It's a tool. How you use it is up to you. But that's kind of how civilisations work. Knowledge grows. Understanding grows. There will always be those people who insist the earth is flat (just have to go on youtube to see that, even today). But that's not because they're ignorant. It's because they don't like change.
Natura nihil frustra facit.

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." ~ Buddha.

If you're dealing with self esteem issues, maybe click here. There may be something you find useful. :)
Above all... remember: you are beautiful, you are valuable, and you have a shining spark of magnificence within you. Don't let anyone take that from you. Embrace who you are. <3

TanyaG

Quote from: SoupSarah on October 12, 2024, 04:17:16 PMand yet, for such a small minority, we do take up a HUGE amount of column inches - more than our fair share?
Some of this exposure is because gen Z are such avid users of social media they make trans much more visible.

I find it striking that by comparison, the backlash against trans (in the media at least) is from people in my generation, who grew up in a world where the word was never heard. For them, this sudden surfacing of trans issues comes as a shock.

It is little different to what happened - in the UK at least - when younger boomers brought gay rights to prominence. Except of course, there was no social media then. But the same pattern of events followed - objections from older generations, the notorious section 28 in the UK, followed by acceptance as younger boomers reached adulthood.

Hopefully we have only a few years before the same happens with trans.

darilee

Were just a small group attempting to live our lives in peace, and yet were viewed in contempt by so many others. I think most individuals are in denial of their own inner feelings in fear of being ridiculed themselves. Fear is the root of most issues.
Darilee

Orchiectomy = 04/20/2021
               HRT =04/01/2021

TanyaG

Quote from: darilee on October 16, 2024, 07:27:49 AMI think most individuals are in denial of their own inner feelings in fear of being ridiculed themselves. Fear is the root of most issues.
A lot of truth in that. Discrimination usually says more about what the people doing the discriminating fear  most in themselves than it does about anything else.

Allie Jayne

We will never know how many trans people there are as I believe the majority of trans people never realise, or at least admit to themselves they are trans! The US did a survey aLmost a decade ago and came up with a figure of 0.3%, but in the ensuing years, requests for trans medical care way outstripped that figure.

WPATH has guesstimated somewhere around 5% of the population, and I believe they are close. Many closeted trans people struggle with substance and alcohol abuse, broken relationships and depression, but never reveal their incongruence. That oft quoted number of 40% suicidality in trans people doesn't reflect the many who suffer similarly without ever admitting why.

Governments have a vested interest in keeping statistics low so they can fund proportionately. In cultures where trans is 'accepted' the number often quoted is 2%, but in reality, even there they suffer a stigma which would affect those revealing their identity.

There isn't a diagnosis for being trans, many countries have different definitions of it, and the major bodies have put it in the too hard basket and changed their terminology to incongruence or gender dysphoria, so if we don't have an overall accepted meaning, how could we count them? There would need to be a significant development in definition, diagnosis, disclosure, and acceptance before we could have even a rough census of our population.

Hugs,

Allie

Lori Dee

Quote from: Allie Jayne on October 16, 2024, 03:15:51 PMThere would need to be a significant development in definition, diagnosis, disclosure, and acceptance before we could have even a rough census of our population.

Exactly. You can't count apples if you don't know what an apple is.
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TanyaG

Quote from: Lori Dee on October 16, 2024, 03:35:37 PMExactly. You can't count apples if you don't know what an apple is.
We'll never know exactly how many trans people are out there, any more than we will ever know how many undiagnosed cased of ADHD are out there, regardless of how detailed and or inclusive the criteria become. For example, the diagnostic criteria for ADHD are tight, but if people don't read them or realise they apply to them, they will never present for treatment or be counted. So it is anybody's guess how common ADHD might be and trans will be no different :-)

Trends in data are all we have to look at. The US 2021-22 survey data could be telling us the number of trans people in Gen Z (aged 12-27) has gone up by a factor of 11 or 12 over the past 40 years, or it could be telling us numbers have been roughly stable but some other circumstance has changed which has made it easier for people to identify they are gender incongruent.

As in, 40 years ago, 5.6% of the population of the US who were that age may have been trans but either didn't understand themselves as being so, or weren't prepared to admit it.

Human behaviour tends to be fairly stable over time so I'd go for the latter explanation - as in 'gender incongruence has always been more common than society accepts'. The bios here are often of people assigned male at birth who accepted they were trans quite late.

As I wrote in the OP, if you plot the data points, we are looking at a strongly rising trend, so the 5.6% figure Gen Z are showing may not be the peak.

But if Gen Z continue to identify as trans and just say that 5.6% was the peak and held for generations younger than them, then in 20 years, the overall figure of around 0.5-0.6% of the entire population being trans will become more like 2.5% and that percentage will continue to rise until it levels at 5.6% of all Americans. Could it go higher than that? Maybe, and the higher it goes, the better in a way, because gender incongruence will become common enough to be accepted as part of normal. In some cultures at least.

Thanks to family and my career, I am around and have been around Gen Z the entire time. This is in the UK, among a group of young people whose attitudes are liberal (in the ones I know through family and friends) and through patients who used to joke no statement had ever raised my eyebrow so much as a millimetre. I find it credible that 5.6% is ball park for Gen Z over here too. Higher than that? Maybe.

The main message of this post isn't to shoot the breeze over percentages. It is to say to new joiners who are trying to take it all in. 'You are not alone, there are many others like you out there,' and also to spread a message that the trans scene is going to change dramatically. Until now it has been dominated by people assigned male at birth, but the signs are it will become the other way around.

The best news is that if our numbers continue to rise, we are going to be tougher to ignore. Our message will become more powerful and in time, from being a group society discriminated against, we will become one that has to be engaged. I can't wait.

ChrissyRyan

I would guess maybe 3% of the population are transgender.

Likely more than 50% of people think that being transgender is wrong and/or perverse.

I do not care what they think; but, that popular opinion may make it hard for us to be ourselves  in a number of ways.  So in a way, I do care what they think. 

Chrissy
Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.  Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Help connect a person to someone that may be able to help that person.  Be brave, be strong.  A TRUE friend is a treasure.  Relationships are very important, people are important, and the sooner we all realize that the better off the world will be.  Try a little kindness.  Be generous with your time, energy, wisdom, and resources.   Inconvenience yourself to help someone.   I am a brown eyed, brown haired woman. 

darilee

I go on a gay site from time to time, mostly to waste time. Every once and awhile a guy will hit on me and we'll start conversing. eventually they'll ask to see some body pics. There have been a couple times where I've been immediately blocked. I'm not so thin skinned where I'm hurt by it, but I'm quite surprised how people in our own LGBTQ+ community frown upon us. 
Darilee

Orchiectomy = 04/20/2021
               HRT =04/01/2021
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Allie Jayne

Quote from: darilee on November 05, 2024, 05:42:02 AMI go on a gay site from time to time, mostly to waste time. Every once and awhile a guy will hit on me and we'll start conversing. eventually they'll ask to see some body pics. There have been a couple times where I've been immediately blocked. I'm not so thin skinned where I'm hurt by it, but I'm quite surprised how people in our own LGBTQ+ community frown upon us. 

Gay sites are about sexual attraction, so it is not surprising people would get hit on while participating. We  are included in LBGTQIA as we share social stigma. For many reasons, there is a strong belief in the broader community that Gender diversity (as distinct from sexual diversity) is not legitimate. There are gay people who would also believe this, and they may even feel that the social and legal oppression of gender diverse people also negatively impacts sexually diverse people, and so those individuals would view us negatively.

If you visit transgender forums, most participants would assume you are trans, similarly, if you visit gay sites, they would assume you are gay. If it becomes apparent you are not there to share their values, it would be reasonable to expect them to reject you. If they view you as non genuine for their attractions, but become aware you are trans, it MAY generate negative emotions towards all trans people.

I would feel less comfortable if I were to be aware that people were participating in this forum who were not part of our community or allies, but had other interest in us, and I guess the same discomfort would be felt on gay sites if they feel you aren't synonymous with their community.

Hugs,

Allie

Devlyn

"How many trans people are there out there?"

Not enough.  :)

Lori Dee

This wasn't a "show of hands, please"?

<puts hand down>

 ;D
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darilee

maybe so Allie. But what I was illustrating was how hostile a minority group can be towards their own group LGBTQ+ is a group fighting for the same causes. But back to my illustration there was no need for the individual to block the conversation he could have just moved on. We've gotten to the point where we eat our own, is there are fix? I hope so.
Darilee

Orchiectomy = 04/20/2021
               HRT =04/01/2021
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TanyaG

Quote from: darilee on November 05, 2024, 05:42:02 AMI go on a gay site from time to time, mostly to waste time. Every once and awhile a guy will hit on me and we'll start conversing. eventually they'll ask to see some body pics. There have been a couple times where I've been immediately blocked. I'm not so thin skinned where I'm hurt by it, but I'm quite surprised how people in our own LGBTQ+ community frown upon us. 
The LGBTQ+ community as a whole radiates the impression it's united against discrimination, but that has never stopped people within it from building silos and discriminating. And blocking is just rude!